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Thread: Basement fires

  1. #1
    Junior Member DarthVader's Avatar
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    Question Basement fires

    How would you vent a basement, with no windows or exterior doors? Would you cut a whole in the first floor? If so what all is involved.
    Dude, I told you I'm not yo daddy...
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    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Smile Well.........................

    When venting becomes the next step, there are at least two options for us. 1. The traditional "Hole in the floor in front of a window on the first floor" approach. and: 2. Use the "Snake". Snake is the nickname for a collapsible duct that attaches to a standard, square, electric fan. We acquired a Snake years ago to vent "Computer Floors" the raised flooring in computer rooms that allow a space underneath to run the vast amount of wiring for computers. The Snake is normally used for smoke removal when the Fire is out. or at the least, knocked down hard enough that the ventilation process will not cause a renewed effort by the Fire to extend elsewhere. Lack of planning is the biggest error in vent tactics that fail. Stay Safe....
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  3. #3
    Junior Member DarthVader's Avatar
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    Question 2 Questions

    1. Will cutting a hole in the floor be the same as venting the roof?
    2. Without negative-pressure ventilation, How would you draw the smoke out of the first floor?
    Dude, I told you I'm not yo daddy...
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  4. #4
    Temporarily/No Longer Active Cellblock776's Avatar
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    We don't have to worry about this problem. There are no basements around here. You dig a hole here the Mississippi River will seep into it in no time. Not many in ground swimming pools arond for the same reason. Those who have them have to keep water in them. If they are drained then the concrete will most likely be cracked by the pressure from the moist ground around it. Then you end up with the same as a basement, a big hole full of muddy water. EEEWwwww.

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    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 Questions

    Originally posted by DarthVader
    1. Will cutting a hole in the floor be the same as venting the roof?
    Basically, but the gases are not out of the building yet, so your work is not quite done until it is safely out of the building.

    2. Without negative-pressure ventilation, How would you draw the smoke out of the first floor?
    First, the hole should be in proximity to a window or door. You could then either close the room you are using off from the rest of the house by tarp or closing doors. You can also use PPV down the basement stairs and then out the hole in the floor.

    I guess you could use hydraulic ventilation as well, but I've never tried it in that scenario. I don't see why it wouldn't work as usual.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Go in the Right Direction......

    My first post here stated "Cut a hole in the floor UNDER a WINDOW" for a reason. One, Smoke comes up and out of the hole, then goes out the window. My friend from North of the border is correct, hydraulic venting would work, Out the window, as usual. I emphasize WINDOW for a good reason. Safety of OUR people is the reason for NOT opening the floor in front of a doorway. Years ago, on a training burn, when the "Snake" was new, we tried a scenario with great success. Got a Fire going in the basement, cut a hole in the floor under a window, (which had been opened prior) set one electric fan in the window blowing out, one in the basement door blowing down the steps. Cleared the place out. Quick. Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
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    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

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    This is what hwoods is talking about.
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    Last edited by FitzBFDT2; 01-26-2004 at 11:23 AM.
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    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    I would say the prefered room for the hole is a bedroom or den that has a door you can close to the rest of the house -- giving it only one place to vent, through the open window and not mushroom anywhere else.

    I've never seen us have to resort to this -- all the cellar fires I've seen at least had a casement window you could vent.

    How would you vent a basement, with no windows or exterior doors?

    As a for what it's worth with fire-service definitions, you're probably unlikely to encounter a basement with no windows or doors -- a basement is 50% or more above grade. A cellar is 50% or more below grade and I'd reckon much more likely to have no holes.

    Of course, I'm guilty of using the two interchangeably also
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    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Talking Hey Dal!................

    Chief18A to Car 490.

    Car 490.

    490, Basements are where the fires are, Cellars are where we store the wine bottles.

    ........

    490, you copy?

    490?

    Guess he's found the cellar.....

    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

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    The hole in the floor at a window is usually the best. Depending on the how much of the foundation is exposed you can also nock out blocks with a sledge. It takes a little energy but that is what a probie or good cadet is for.

    If the venting is to remove heat for entry down the stairs ( if they are there) keep a cellar nozzle in mind if you have one. Darkens the fire and makes entry a little easier.

    All in all basement fires suck!!!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    squelch...hic...squelch
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    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by flashover113
    The hole in the floor at a window is usually the best. Depending on the how much of the foundation is exposed you can also nock (sic) out blocks with a sledge. It takes a little energy but that is what a probie or good cadet is for.
    Assuming the foundation is made of cement block and the availability of the probie... poured concrete is another story altogether!

    If the venting is to remove heat for entry down the stairs (if they are there) keep a cellar nozzle in mind if you have one. Darkens the fire and makes entry a little easier.
    They key word here is if... If the basement/cellar is finished and the fire is in another part of the basement/cellar, all bets are off!

    All in all basement fires suck!!!
    Amen, Brother...amen!

    Car 490...

    Per chance, is there a bottle of Williamsburg Winery Cabernet Sauvignon 1998 down there? I do enjoy a good red wine with a steak dinner (off duty, of course!)
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    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    And wouldn't you know it, we just found the families pet pot bellied pig cooked to perfection in the corner of the basement.
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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