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  1. #1
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
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    Unhappy Alcoholic Beverages Found at FDNY E-53 L43 East Harlem



    NEW YORK (AP) - Four fire department officials were reassigned
    and two firefighters were suspended after inspectors found beer and
    liquor stashed in a firehouse locker in East Harlem, authorities
    said.
    The routine inspection took place Sunday at Engine Company
    53-Ladder Company 43, but the findings were not made public until
    Friday. The firehouse's entire staff was required to undergo drug
    testing after the alcohol was found. Two firefighters - John Condon
    and Brian McParland - tested positive for controlled substances and
    could be fired.
    Four officials who oversaw the firehouse - Capts. Alexander
    Hagan and Kerry Hollywood and Lts. Glenn Rohan and Joseph
    Patriciello - were reassigned indefinitely.
    "Firefighting is a dangerous occupation, and anyone impaired by
    these substances puts not only themselves, but their colleagues and
    the public, at risk," FDNY Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta told
    the Daily News for Saturday editions.
    Firefighters told inspectors the beer and liquor had been left
    over from a holiday party at a restaurant last month.
    Tom Butler, spokesman for the Uniformed Firefighters
    Association, said the drug tests had been unwarranted because no
    firefighters had been caught drinking on the job. He also
    challenged the validity of the tests, which he said were conducted
    by nonmedical personnel.
    Alcohol abuse by firefighters has been under increased scrutiny
    since a firehouse brawl on Staten Island critically injured a
    firefighter on New Year's Eve. Police are investigating whether
    those involved in the fight had been drinking.

    (Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
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  2. #2
    Forum Member stm4710's Avatar
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    Tom Butler, spokesman for the Uniformed Firefighters...........He also
    challenged the validity of the tests, which he said were conducted
    by nonmedical personnel.
    Now there is an un-expected statement!
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

  3. #3
    Temporarily/No Longer Active Cellblock776's Avatar
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    Quote- Firefighters told inspectors the beer and liquor had been left
    over from a holiday party at a restaurant last month. -Quote

    What was the lesson to be learned here boys and girls? After the party either leave the booze at the restaurant or take it directly home. Don't take it to the station.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber mcaldwell's Avatar
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    The firehouse's entire staff was required to undergo drug testing after the alcohol was found.
    So what do they do when they suspect drug use? Perform Alcohol Testing?
    Never argue with an Idiot. They drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience!

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  5. #5
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    Most places require alcohol and drug testing after any MV Crash involving FD Apparatus or after any accusations of Drug/Alcohol usage. Of course the UFA is going to say that they aren't right to do testing, that's what the union is paid to do. I don't agree with it, I think the suspensions and reassignments are valid and justified.

    Drinking has no place in the Fire Service and I think Cellblock776 had a good point when he said that they should have taken the liquor home after the party. What was the point of even taking it to a "Middleman" location in the first place??? Stupid moves on the part of the parties involved.

  6. #6
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    "……but let him who has no sin cast the first stone".
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
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  7. #7
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    "……but let him who has no sin cast the first stone".
    Unless it is the case of a Volunteer who allegedly sets a fire, and then the entire forum tosses bricks!

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Alcohol use/abuse/consumption can be found on both sides of the career/volunteer aisle.
    And so can fires set by firefighters.
    On a percentage basis? Yeah; one more than the other.
    Do you think when America sees the headline, they care if it's career or volunteer?
    These are fire service problems.
    And we have to deal with them.
    CR
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  9. #9
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Unless it is the case of a Volunteer...
    Tiller, although this was used in the context of arson and this is about alcohol, why are you trying to turn this into a career vs. vollie arument?
    Nowhere have I read that this alcohol is for on-duty consumptionor that this house has a history of responding under the influance.
    But if that comes to light, does it make it any more "right" because they are career- NO. I don't think you will find anyone here defending that behavior.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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  10. #10
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    Default SPFD

    I don't think it has to do with any Career/Volunteer debate period. It is more of a "FDNY vs. the Rest of the Fire Service" aspect for me.

    Nowhere did it say that it was used for in house consumption, no, it did not. However in most arson cases it does not say anywhere that "Little Johnny Volunteer was Born and Bred to Set Fires" either, but 90% make judgements immediately and brand the entire service as bad.

    I am sorry I am criticizing the FDNY, but they are not infallible(sic) and it seems alot of people think they are exempt from criticism because of 9-11 or any other reason you can think of. If something negative about the FDNY comes out, alot of people (the same who jump to criticize anyone elses departments for negative incidents) jump right up and say "Let's not pass Judgement" and that sir is bulls--t.

    The FDNY is made up of the same type of guys as the Boston FD, the DCFD and any other Fire Department you can find across the United States and abroad. It is made up of less than perfect men and women who, despite the fact they are human and make errors in judgement like the rest of us, have a desire to fight fires and serve the populace. There is no need to place them higher in the food chain than any other firefighter. So lets be relaistic and not look at this as "the FDNY had a Booze Bust," but that "Firefighters in a Firehouse stashed some booze and got Busted!" And the punishment they got is small compared to what would happen if I was a chief.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    if I was a chief
    That will be the day...ROTFLMFAO

  12. #12
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    Yeah, I am sure if I had my lips firmly planted on the patch of your department and was saying this whole incident was BS from the get go, spending all my money on "Insert Cool FDNY Slogan Here" T-Shirts, and coming to NYC every weekend to hang around firehouses, your attitudes would be different. But dare someone criticize these guys. If they did something wrong, lets just forget it, they are big city fiyamen dat ride da towah laddahs....(And hearing people down here imitate you guys on our Fireground Radios to make them selves sound cool is REEAAALLLY Annoying! )

    I am more into the west coast Fire Departments anyway. At lest some of them still wear 3/4 boots and most still use Wooden Ladders! (Now if you could only get LAFD to wear Leather!

  13. #13
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    For some reason while my post appeared it did not register as a new post so I am reposting this. Sorry if it appears twice I will try to delete my first post. So here we go!!

    I can't help but recall something I said to the guys on my career FD when one of them said shortly after 9-11 "People think we are heroes. They love us." I said "Enjoy it while it lasts cuz it won't last long."

    Unfortunately the FDNY has been cast into another spotlight now. The hero thing has faded in the media's eye and the feeding frenzy begins anew. Are the latest incidents unfortunate? Of course. Is the FDNY perfect? Of course not. Does it paint the entire FDNY with a broad brush? Unfortunately yes.

    We sat and rehashed the chair swinging incident, now many sit in judgement of the alcohol in the fire station episode that also includes 2 firefighters that tested positive for cocaine. I don't know the particulars of either incident, other than what has made it into the news and what the Brothers from the FDNY have chosen to share.

    As much as I hate to say this, since I feel we are all Brothers and Sisters in this life we have chosen as firefighters, there does seem to be a dose of hypocrisy amongst some on these forums. We have rushed to crucify others for alcohol in the station and for responding drunk. Without passing judgement on the FDNY situation but just stating generically...if no booze in the firehouse is appropriate for some it should be the right thing for all. If in fact the 2 FF's that tested positive for drugs were actually positive for drug use then whatever the policy of the FDNY is for that offense should be followed to the letter.

    Unfortunately the disadvantage of constantly in the spot light is eventually everyone will see the wart you have on your chin. And sadly it seems the FDNY's warts are being seen by everyone right now.

    To my Brothers in the FDNY I meant no disrespect by what I have written.

    FyredUp

  14. #14
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    the chair swinging incident
    Out of curiosity, how is the FF that was hit? Has he been released from the hospital?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  15. #15
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    Tillerman,

    If you were doing the following:
    I had my lips firmly planted on the patch of your department and was saying this whole incident was BS from the get go, spending all my money on "Insert Cool FDNY Slogan Here" T-Shirts, and coming to NYC every weekend to hang around firehouses, your attitudes would be different.
    My attitude would be different...I would think you were a nut without a life.

    We don't think we are gods gift to anyone, we go to work and do our duty and do it well. I put my pants on just like you.

    You have no clue what it means to be a brother. You stick together no matter what. Through the good times and bad. If my (blood)brother had any problems I wouldn't disown him, I wouldn't refuse to help him or give him shelter if he found himself on hard times. I treat the guys in the firehouse the same way.

    The speed with which you and many others look to distance yourself from your so called "brothers" is disturbing and is a testement to the new "everyone for themselves" attitudue in todays fire service where everyone seeks to promote while crawling up and over the backs of their brothers.

    No one is perfect and based on my previous expereince in much smaller depts I gaurantee you have just as many problems as the next dept. just on a smaller scale.

    I'm glad you'll never be on the fire floor with me. You've shown your true colors.

    Obviously you have a insecurity complex and are bitter for whatever reason. GET OVER IT. No one wants to hear you bitch like a mother-in-law. Your comments about "big city fiyamen" and vollys getting flamed for arson, show you are clearly upset over some inequality you have perceived in their treatment here in the forums or at your dept.

    As for the accent, YOUR hillbilly backwoods twang would sound funny to us too. It just happens to be the terminology used here(and many other places) and with the regional accent developed over 100s of years. That is just one thing that makes this country so interesting.

    Here is a suggestion for you Instead of being in to FDNY or West coast FDs(LA or whomever) why not be in to your OWN dept. Make it the best it can be and don't worry about us or LA or whomever. Wear "your company" t-shirt and be proud of it. You and your dept are what should be most important to you.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-01-2004 at 07:35 PM.

  16. #16
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    Fred,

    Very well put!

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Originally posted by FFFRED


    Here is a suggestion for you Instead of being in to FDNY or West coast FDs(LA or whomever) why not be in to your OWN dept. Make it the best it can be and don't worry about us or LA or whomever. Wear "your company" t-shirt and be proud of it. You and your dept are what should be most important to you.

    FTM-PTB
    I believe that is what the majority of other departments around the USA are like. For the most part, most people dont realy care what goes on beyond their own little world which general encopasaes a 100 mile radius.

    Why do they make a big deal out of stuff that happens in NYC? Why do people make a big deal over a porno chic firefighter? Why do people make a big deal out of something that happens on a 16 mam voly fire department? Why?

    The media, thats why. They can hype anything they so choose.

    The FDNY, weather they love it or hate it, are in the spotlight, for better or for worse. On Sept 11 they became America's fire department. They are the most watched, and yes, most scrutinized fire department in the world.

    One little mistake, and the media is going to jump all over them.

    The reminds me of some quotes from Spider Man (another NYC hero).

    Green Goblin: The one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Green Goblin: Spider-Man! This is why only fools are heroes - because you never know when some lunatic will come along with a sadistic choice. Let die the woman you love....or suffer the little children. Make your choice, Spider-Man, and see how a hero is rewarded.



    In any case, the FDNY is catching hell right now, but wait a week, something else will happen, somewhere else, and then it will be their turn on the whipping post.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    "Since Jan. 1, 513 firefighters have been injured at 307 fires around the city"

    Two tested positive.

  19. #19
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    E229Lt...

    I don't believe that anyone here is questioning the amazing job done by the FDNY. Heck, we don't have 1500 FF's on my career FD and we won't come close to 300 working fires for the year.

    But unfortunately that is not the issue. The issue as stated so eloquently by SamsonFCDES is that the FDNY is in the media spotlight and since the hero thing has pretty much ran the media course they need something new. Now the anti-hero blitz has hit and every bad thing that hits will get the same bright spotlight that use to shine on the heros.

    I also agree with others on this board that many have been quick to crucify other FF's for using alcohol or drugs at the station. I can find no excuse for those things being used on the job and no excuse at all for the drug usage even if off duty.

    I will NOT pass judgement on these FF's from the FDNY and will not pass judgement any further on other FF's who hit the media for the same problems until I have the facts. I will however say this, if the FDNY has policies and procedures for dealing with the incidents we are discussing, and those involved are found to be guilty of violating them, they should expect to be punished to the extent of those policies and procedures. On the other hand, if after the investigations they are exonerated, they should all be reinstated to their former positions.

    FyredUp

  20. #20
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    When you are an elite organization such as FDNY you are in the spotlight and like it or not you are subject to more public scrutiny. You can open almost any paper and see a story about FDNY or something relevant. How often do you see something about ABC FD with 25 employees? After 9-11 FDNY became even more public as everyone across the nation grieved for them. Now there have been several incidents that have resulted in negative press. Could these same type things have happened in other departments? Sure... Has it happened? Probably so and we just do not know unless a forum member picks it up and posts it.

    As far as booze in the FD goes...regardless of the FD...it is/should be a no no! We have beat this to death and some agree, some do not.

    As far as the chair incident goes.....should it have happened? No? Do we know "exactly" why, No do not.

    The best thing that could/should have happened is that the booze should have been taken home by someone as I feel it has no place in the station. Will we ever know exactly what the entire story it? Probably not.

    It happened, someone got disciplined, it has been or is still being investigated. Let's learn from it and move on.

    To turn this into a vol/vs Career bashing session is totally uncalled for and inappropriate. As CR says....it is prevalent on both sides of the fence!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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