1. #1
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3

    Default Firehouse Thefts

    My department just recently voted to spend an initial $2500 on a video surveillance system for our firehouse. This was in response to a long rash of thefts of items ranging from screwdrivers to sabotaging SCBA packs to computer software. This is a frustrating position to be in, considering we are an all volunteer department and our members should WANT to be there.

    Anyhow, I was wondering what security measures other departments may have taken to prevent thefts?

    Thanx....

  2. #2
    MalteseMonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    61

    Lightbulb Trip wire and..........

    Naw, anyways are you sure its coming from within the dept. Maybe want to look into previous members, council members, Etc. Other than that if you have the money to shell out, the camera is you'r best bet..
    Ain't Skeerd
    Half Leather Forever....

  3. #3
    Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Panhandle of WV
    Posts
    68

    Default

    I too think it could be someone from the outside, except for the screwdrivers. That's very common in firehouses. A fireman could have forgotten to return it or could have misplaced it after working on something. I'd say the punk sabotaging SCBA packs needs to be caught and punished.

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    emtbff927's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    central Texas
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Anyhow, I was wondering what security measures other departments may have taken to prevent thefts?
    We haven't had theft issues, but we have had problems with people not in the dept. wandering into and about the station without anyone realizing they came in. We put coded locks on the doors (only members know the code) and doorbells for non-members/public to use. This idea might help if your dept is concerned about outsiders getting in.

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    Do a little searching as this was discuused somewhere here recently. Maybe Cellblock may recall what thread it was. We at one time were going to add something simillar a while ago when we had some narcotics come up missing from the squads. And instead the person who was doing it eventually got in trouble from their primary employer and after that we havent had an issue.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    We did have some issues in the past with someone stealing a scanner, some pay checks, and a few other things, but he was caught pretty easily when he cashed the checks. Haven't had any problems since then.....

  7. #7
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    39

    Default

    We have had a major theft problem... But it wasnt necesarly from our department....
    We have an apartment onto our station that one of batalian chiefs lives in and his truck tool box got broke into.. They stole a set of his personel gear a drill a tool box... Plus a few other odds and ins. We have been thinking about cameras for awhile but mostly on hte outside...
    Also we just had a problem with some moron putting hte heat up to 90 degrees at our new station... So we added a security system... Every person on the department has there own code and that code is logged with every use... also with someone who was having sex in the cab of our telasquirt.. which in of itself is bad enough but they left there condoms there... which just yea infuriates me to even think about it (especialy since they were found while on a run)

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    Originally posted by Scratchy635
    someone who was having sex in the cab of our telasquirt.. which in of itself is bad enough but they left there condoms there... which just yea infuriates me to even think about it (especialy since they were found while on a run)
    NIIIIIIIICCE

  9. #9
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    39

    Default

    exactly
    id love to hang whoever did it from the hose tower

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    ffexpCP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    909

    Default

    Just imagine a little kid finding them during a station tour!

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    Someone's been watching Backdraft too much!!!

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    202

    Default

    We used to have gas stolen out of the cans off the truck. What a pain when you go to fill the generator up with gas-oops the can is empty. We had someone quit the department and problem solved. Imagine that! We could not prove it though.

    We just moved into our new station in January and I got a phone call sometime in June that the station had been broke into. Mind you we are a volunteer department so there is not someone there all the time.

    They made a mess of the station anything that was locked they broke into, using OUR PRYBAR off the rescue. In fact that was the only thing we found that they stole. It must have worked good for them and they thought they could use it elsewhere.

    I'm sure they were looking for all the money we had stashed in the station

    All we have done is try to keep people around the station more. Those of us that work swing shift will stop in on our way home from work or on our way in. Everyone is starting to do it so you can not really make a pattern out of when someone will be there. Not that you could before, but now there are more frequent visitors at the station.
    Les Hartford
    Assistant Chief
    LMR Fire Dept.

    The views posted here are strickly my own and not of any of the groups I am affiliated with.

    IACOJ Member

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    140

    Default

    Have same problem, so we changed locks in case someone had a key that didn't need one. Didn't help. Not so much that things are missing, as they are re-arranged. Moving tools from pumper to tanker, etc. We can not stress enough to these guys that when you take tools off of a classA pumper, it is no longer a class A pumper. So we posted a log in sheet, to be signed by everyone upon entering the station, for any reason, and sign out when leaving. This rule does not apply to them as you can imagine. We are now to the point of also installing a camera system. Main example of equipment moving, that happens on a regular basis, is moving foam-eductor to tanker. We get to an oil fire, and have to wait a while for another engine, or wait for tanker. If response is slow that could be dangerous. But it is pretty darn sorry that someone would do something that low, to the dept. they are a member of. Chap's my rear to no end.

  14. #14
    Temporarily/No Longer Active
    Cellblock776's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    319

    Default

    Do a little searching as this was discuused somewhere here recently. Maybe Cellblock may recall what thread it was.
    You are correct. I started a simular thread over in the Volunteer Forum a few weeks back. The cams still haven't been installed but should come soon. To view the original thread follow the URL below.
    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=56081

    Here's hoping it solves your theft problems.

  15. #15
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Thanx for all the input!

    Cellblock, I saw your earlier thread and there's some good information there too. When you get your cameras installed, please let us know how you like them, any pitfalls you found, if they worked....you know, a 50-page thesis should be sufficient!

    Just to remark on some earlier replies regarding a perp from the outside...we didn't strongly consider that as we have a security patrol within our community that's pretty diligent on checking the doors and all, and there's somebody at the station off-and-on throughout the day. But if so, the cameras should get them too.

    Hey Scratchy & emfbff...do you find that the individual key codes work? In theory, limiting access to the building to code-holders would work, but there's issues. Such as piggy-backing (when more than one person enters with someone else), do you have to enter code to EXIT the building too?

    I think the bottom line with all of this is that we all need to frequently monitor and account for our equipment. All the security gadgets won't help unless we know when to use them......and we won't know when to use them unless we know something is missing.

    It's sad, but let's still have fun out there....

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,242

    Talking

    He is probably mad because he didn't think about having sex in da cab.

    This may be the normal thing for the volunteer department to have something to do between calls. In a busy paid department, you would have time for that stuff. Your hide parts would be fired if you did.

    Besides I like what I have a home far better than I could ever get in a firehouse!!!!!!


    Stay Safe & Well Guys............

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    mohican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    850

    Default

    You might be able to be reimbursed for the camera through some of the Homeland Security money. It can be trick, I think they deal with the county level EMAs, but I know there is money for security for firehouses, water plants, etc. It would be worth checking into.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ff7134's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    We have cameras at the doors of the station, and several in the bays. All of this is recorded in the Chiefs office. We are a combination department so its no that big of a deal but the Chief usually uses it to see whose on station in case he needs to talk to you. Nothing like the Chief over the intercomm saying he want you in his office and noone seen him leave . We use ours mainly for if the crews are out of the house and something happens.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

    IAFF Local 3900

    IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

    ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

    F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    We have code locks on the doors into the building and on the doors into the bay. Everyone has their own individual code. We can assign codes to the cops, boy scouts, cleaning people, contractors, etc so we can keep track of things. We don't have a theft problem, but it makes it real nice when you pull up at 3am, it is 5 bellow zero, and you forgot the key.

    You will probably not be allowed to have code lock on exit. I would venture a guess that fire code disallows that. The system we have has the code punch and a handle outside and a crashbar on the inside.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  20. #20
    Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    39

    Default

    Originally posted by OrbDog

    Hey Scratchy & emfbff...do you find that the individual key codes work? In theory, limiting access to the building to code-holders would work, but there's issues. Such as piggy-backing (when more than one person enters with someone else), do you have to enter code to EXIT the building too?

    I think the bottom line with all of this is that we all need to frequently monitor and account for our equipment. All the security gadgets won't help unless we know when to use them......and we won't know when to use them unless we know something is missing.

    It's sad, but let's still have fun out there....
    Yea you have to enter your code when you enter and exit in order to set the alarm... or turn it off if you are the first one there... But, if someones there and ya go in and do something surely that other person well say something to ya if no other reason to keep out of trouble. So far it has worked considering we have been doing alot of construction on the new station and no tools have gotten "misplaced"


    Good luck getting rid of ya problem

    NMFIRE those code locks are the handiest thing in the world... MY aunt used to lock herself out of her house on a daily occasion, they were the only thing that we could use to remedy it..

  21. #21
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    london, england
    Posts
    10

    Unhappy

    We have razor wire round a few of stations in London and auto bay doors, still dont keep the little tea leafs out of the station though, weve caught people in our station before!

  22. #22
    Temporarily/No Longer Active
    Cellblock776's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    319

    Default

    One of our biggest problems is that the bay doors are almost always open. During the day we have one paid man on duty and the Chief requires that as long as he is at the station the doors remain up on both bays. Kind of a 'we're open for business' thing. So if you are inside someone can pull up and wander around the bays and you never know that they are in there. Anyone driving by that wants to stop and ask directions or conduct business is naturally drawn to those big open bay doors instead of the little red door with the welcome mat in front of it. By entering through the bays they get to weave through the trashcans, extra equiptment stacked along the wall, etc and then enter through the door that leads into the bunkroom/radio desk room. If they would enter through the front door they would come directly into our meeting and office area instead. So we have unescorted visitors walking through the truck bays on a regular basis.
    Next is the problem of leaveing the station and not getting the doors rolled down. Common problem at all 3 of our stations. The pagers go off and the paid guy jumps in the first out truck and pulls out to the road and hits the buttton on the garage door remote. He pulls out and looks back at the bays and the doors haven come down. TOO LATE NOW. Volunteers enroute to the call swing into the parking lot and find the doors open for them already. LOL. Sometimes nobody stops by and closes the doors and they stay up until the calls ends and the truck returns to the station. This all happens on a major 2 lane highway just outside of Baton Rouge and LSU. Go Tigers. Anyway, since the doors are open and the station is unmanned you can imagine the possibilities of someone pulling up to the station, walking in, roaming around the Chiefs office and leaving with the computer, the TV, VCR, microwave and whatever else they want.
    Well, maybe the cameras we are installing to catch people giving oral sex on the couch will also catch anyone who wanders in off the street to shop while we are gone.
    Stay Safe,

  23. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    You guys have to look at the bigger, 21st century picture.

    What is the dollar value of the equipment sitting in your firehouse? For most of you, the replacement cost could easily exceed one million dollars. If you were a private corporation, they would normally put forth considerable effort to secure and protect those assets. Yet, some in the fire service, like to stick their heads in the sand and rely on the fact that FF are nice people and that no one would screw with a firehouse.

    That nonsensical attitude reflects a major flaw in the approach to the protetion of fire department assets.

    If some pimple headed, 18 year old crack addict can get into your building, how in the hell are you going to stop a professional terrorist from entering your building and completely disabling you or the equipment. And here's a newsflash...THE DAYS OF LEAVING THE BAY DOORS OPEN ARE OVER! Your firehouse is a critical infrastructure site. It deserves to be protected as such. Don't believe me, check out the document being put forth by USFA promoting exactrly the same thing.

    On another note; renmember cameras are OK, but you cannot record or monitor the audio. That is a violation of federal wiretap statutues and you can get in some serious civil and criminal trouble.

  24. #24
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    london, england
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Can you not get auto closers? our doors are on a timer and close automatically after 2 mins!

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber
    mohican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    850

    Default

    Originally posted by cheesy
    We have razor wire round a few of stations in London and auto bay doors, still dont keep the little tea leafs out of the station though, weve caught people in our station before!
    I find that hard to believe. I thought that after they took all your guns away, that crime in England has been nil.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register