Thread: conceale carry law
02-05-2004, 02:51 PM #1
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
- central Ohio
conceale carry law
Help. With the "concealed Carry" law soon to be in effect are there any established guidlines for how to handle a weapon on a patient? If the Pt is has a dimminished LOC etc... Ideally, give the weapon to the responing law officer. But sometimes, we have had Pt's extricated,packaged and gone before the law arrives. I would hate to leave a member of my crew on scene to secure a weapon untill it can be turned over to OSP, or the Sherrif's office. Any one have current or new SOP's on this issue?
02-05-2004, 03:25 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2004
- Bolivar, Ohio USA
Along with this question, what about responses that would normally not require law enforcement ?
An ill, or injured person call on someone who is in possesion of a firearm ?
This will mean that someone on the scene, more than likely one of us, will have to take control of the weapon, make that weapon safe and secure it for transport to the ED. At that point, we are now in possesion of a hand gun in the rig. Then what ?
I am an advocate and an active member of Ohioans for Concealled Carry and I hopefully will have input in putting together our department's guidelines for dealing with this, but as of yet I have nothing to offer, other than I join you in the search for anyone who has an SOG written to help us get something completed.
02-05-2004, 03:35 PM #3
As a Ohio Law Enforcement officer and FF/EMT. Are all your personnel trained on all weapons, makes and models and proficient in the unloading and safety features of all the currently and out of production firearms. I would say NO. If you are at a residnece you should ask the family if they are there to secure the weapon, if not ask the person where they want their gun put and put it their.....leaving it loaded. Because about the time you get your person "who knows guns" trying to unload it and you have an accidental discharge and you get someone shot. We as EMS personnel should not be handling guns anyways...thats what the cops are for.
At an accident...hopefully your local PD or law enforcement will arrive before you or soon after and they will secure and take possession of the weapon. We have yet to work out this situation but we are working on the policy.AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo
IAFF Local 3900
IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm
ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats
F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB
02-05-2004, 05:40 PM #4
Just my opinion
as Fire/EMS, we should already have some idea about how to deal with firearms and other weapons on pts. I worry about some drunked up, methed out squirrel with his $50 piece more than I'll worry about about Joe Citizen with his licensed conceal carry gun.
Think about it this way, most likely, if a pt has a gun on his/her person, and is incapacitated, if the gun was going to go off, 99.99% of the time it would have already. Guns are inanimate objects. They need human intervention to make them go bang. For a gun to have an accidental, random discharge without a finger on the trigger takes a cocked weapon with a very light trigger pull. If a pt has a glock stuck in their wasteband, and needed immediate transport, I probably wouldn't delay transport waiting for a LEO.
No offense to the leo's here, but this advise about "the LEOs know all about guns, they'll handle it" aint always true. In fact, on the two most recent runs I've had involving guns and pt's the LEOs on scene have batted 0. Some cops know a lot about guns. Then there are the ones who refer to the 9mm as "high powered".
Here is another Idea - have your local NRA trainer, or police trainer, or someone from a gun dealership give you a rundown on guns.
02-05-2004, 06:11 PM #5
- Join Date
- Dec 2000
This is quite an active topic in the EMS forum: http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=54950
I'll copy what I posted there, here:
Well, first of all, I'm glad that in my little township, the cops are usually free and respond to all of our calls.
Secondly, (and I am trying to tread lightly with all of you gun nu...uh..enthusiasts in here )for the safety of myself and my crew, if a weapon is found on a pt., that scene is no longer safe and we will back out until PD secures it. I'm not going to take the time to find out if they have a permit or not. I'm going to assume that they don't and let the PD deal with it.
And to expound on it:
OK, this is a generalization. Obviously a pt. in cardiac arrest is not going to shoot anyone. In that case, I would remove the gun (without getting anywhere near the trigger) and put it somewhere safe until the PD gets there. It is definitely NOT going on my rig.
As far as the cops not knowing what to do with the guns, they know alot more than me! I'm not ashamed to admit I know nothing about guns. I don't hunt. I've never even held a gun. I'm sure there are some guys on my dept. who know more about guns than cops do but I'm not one of them
Above all, stay safe.FTM-PTB-DTRT
02-05-2004, 07:40 PM #6
As WTFD10 said, check out the other thread........
Our chief is making an SOG for it. Contact PD to secure it. If they are unable, take weapon and secure in locked cabinet on rig (which we don't have) and leave it in there. If PD cannot meet us at ER, we go to PD to leave it with them at the station and the PT can pick it up there when they are released from the hospital.
02-09-2004, 12:21 PM #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
- central Ohio
Thanks for you responses. It is nice to know that more than myself see the potential of a concealed weapon. My biggest fear/wory is not of the a PT USING THE WEAPON, it is the accidental discharge of the weapon. Some of my people know how to handel firearms, some have no clue. As a department, under know circunstance are we to have a weapon on the truck. However, if under the second or "full body" exam a weapon is found while en route to the ER what is our liability for the weapon? We are looking into a seperate lock box similar to the drug cabinet when this happens. It is not a matter of "if", it is a matter of when it happens. I want to be ahead of it, if possible for a change. Firenresq77, if possible can I see the "SOG" your chief is working on? Or a basic idra of content? I also wonder if any policy has to approved by our County Prosecutor's office like everything else we have in writting?
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