1. #1
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    Default training questions

    ok i have a question for yall.....i am a rookie charged with the task of doing a 1 1/2 to 2 hour training course on hose at my volunteer dept.....what would yall recommend for that course....i was thinking maybe a wild hose drill and hose lays
    Find 'Em Hot...Leave 'Em Wet

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    I think a wild hose is just asking for trouble, even in the drillyard. Certainly caution against improper handling of this situation, but I don't know if it's the kind of thing you want to try.

    Hoselays are good. How about drilling folks on dressing a hydrant? What about doing it for time? Pull out a hydrant bag, have a 10 foot section of hose with some gates & a practice hydrant (if you have one, or a real one) to do exactly as we would on a fireground.

    I'll add any other thoughts I have in the future!
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    I like to roll 4 sections of 1 3/4" with a nozzel, place it on the ground and have a group of four FF's in a timed drill lay it all out and connect to a pumper and flow water (knocking down a target).

    Take 3 (50') sections of 2 1/2 with a deck gun on one end, and the other connected to a pumper. The middle section should have a hole cut into it to show a busted section and have the pump operator charge it at 50 psi. On the order your 4 man team has to take 2 rolled up section of 2 1/2" and replace the bad section. They must clamp the hose, disconnect the bad section and replace it with the 2 sections of 2 1/2", then unclamp the hose and knock the target down. 1 man must remain on the clamp and 1 man must remain on the deck gun. This is alot of fun and builds confindence in the crew that this task can be completed on the fire ground (but not as fast).

    Good luck
    Last edited by captjab; 02-10-2004 at 12:44 PM.

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    Post Engine work!

    First Brother I'm not sure why you as a rookie or probie or whatever should be leading a drill. I hope someone is providing guidance to you.

    That being said...
    I did participate in a loose hose drill twice...in two different previous depts I worked for. We took signifigant safety procedures by lashing the hoses down. We ended up damaging several lenghts before stopping the drill after only a few times. I would suggest either using very low pressure or just cover the procedure for such a situation without actually using real water. There is a signifigant chance of getting a guys face bashed in.

    -I would focus on the proper stretching and advancement of hoselines. Such as the teamwork between the nozzleman and back-up man. Moving in while flowing water. Around corners etc.

    -Drill on how to properly stretch... The nozzle man should have at least one working length with him while stretching...just having the nozzle is poor tactics, for it doesn't provide a length for advancement into the fire area.

    -Or perhaps on how to actually use a nozzle (spinning it rapidly around and around) deflecting it off the ceiling then sweeping the floor of debris and hot embers. Always moving in. When I was an instructor I saw many who would just point and shoot...no rotation, no sweeping.

    -Practice on how you would perform a rope stretch on a larger building.

    -Practice Setting up foam operations with the appropriate hose.

    I hope these suggestions get the gears in your head working.

    Good luck,

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-09-2004 at 11:08 PM.

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    By saying "loose hose drill," I take it that you guys are talking about chasing down an unmanned, open & charged hoseline? If so, what really is the point?

    It's not a drill that's done in my area (at least among departments I've trained with)... and if you had such a situation in real life, wouldn't you simply radio the engineer to kill or gate down the line?

  6. #6
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    practice advanceing hose up a ladder, Couplings is good drill with hose,have a "what if we had this and needed that drill" time your guys on how fast it can take you to convert maybe a 3 1/2" to a 2 1/2" to a 1 3/4" and just keep changing up . And the same time make sure that you have couplings that will adapt to others. many companies in our district wanted to get 5" in. only a few of us actually did get it. when had got our new truck we had a call and there was a slight problem with us hooking up to each other. The only reason that happen because we did consider other companies equipment when we made our purchases. So make sure your guys are aware of what your mutual aid companies are running with.
    If we don't do it nobody else will!!!!

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    General rule-of-thumb: Train the way you play!

    Don't waste time training people on things you don't expect them to do on the fireground. Decide what you expect them to be able to do when it counts and train them to do it.

    If you don't carry your 1 3/4 in donut rolls, you probably won't get much out of having guys unroll it, connect it, and flow water.

    Does everyone truly know how to pull your preconnects PROPERLY? Or do you too often wind up with a pile of spaghetti next to the truck that wastes 2 minutes getting straightened out?

    Advance hose around obstacles. How many fires have straightline, unimpeded acces from truck to fire?

    Do a little research beforehand on different types of hose loads that maybe your dept. hasn't tried yet. Expose your guys to something new. You may just find one that works better than your current setup.

    Don't forget the value of properly packing the hose back on the truck. Boring? Yes, but if it isn't put back right, it won't be pulled right the next time. More of that spaghetti.
    TW
    Essex Junction Fire Dept.
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    A couple thoughts

    REALISTIC AND RELEVANT TRAINING
    PRACTICE LIKE YOU PLAY
    PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT PERFORMANCE

    set up practical training and get everyone involved

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    I'm assuming your teaching this class mainly for the instructors???
    If that is the case keep it simple,dont go rambling on about things you don't use....If not, go ahead and spice it up a little with stuff you don't do everyday like advancing hose up ladders and so on...P.S. If this is the case you are going to have a hard time getting the class to listen to you...After all you are bottom of the totem pole.
    Ain't Skeerd
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    MP

    Just keep an open mind when it comes to training. If you make it interesting and fun, most people will learn and enjoy the training being offered. There are a lot of good ideas being offered here, all have the same hidden meaning “Proficiency”.

    Most can’t see the hidden experience behind unrolling hose and connecting it together, or stretching a line around obstacles or up ladders. But the end result is a different way of learning to become “Proficient” before the alarm sounds. Always offer different ways to train regardless what some might think as unrealistic or the old sayings of “That would never happen” so why do it.

    Be safe and be Pround

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    I can't understand why, as a rookie, you would be charged with conducting a drill. Those in your department with experience and who are qualified too train you should be conducting the drills.

    However, if you are going to be required to conduct a drill, don't waste time drilling on things that you aren't going to do on an actual fireground. The best thing to do is exactly what you are going to want your crew to do when you arrive on scene.

    I would start with the crew in the engine. Have them stretch and advance the line from the truck, timing the event would be could, while stressing safety at the same time. From the time you say go to the time you get water flowing. You aren't going to be doing any wild hose lays at a fire.

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    How often do you actually have to chase down a loose hose? Far, far less than you stretch a line.

    Like FFFred said:
    "-Or perhaps on how to actually use a nozzle (spinning it rapidly around and around) deflecting it off the ceiling then sweeping the floor of debris and hot embers. Always moving in. When I was an instructor I saw many who would just point and shoot...no rotation, no sweeping. "

    My first academy made no mention at all of how to properly use a nozzle, and I've seen tons of people do exactly what Fred talked about- point and shoot. Get a subscription to firenuggets.com, and read the article about how to properly use a nozzle, and go from there.

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    Originally posted by cozmosis
    if you had such a situation [loose hose] in real life, wouldn't you simply radio the engineer to kill or gate down the line?
    I guess I answered my own question yesterday.

    After a worker at some condos, I was using a handline to wash debris off equipment. The handline was flowing at a very low pressure. For that reason, I probably didn't have a solid grip on the nozzle & hose. Suddenely, the engineer bumped up the pressure on me and I lost the nozzle.

    Luckily, I was able to grab the hose a couple of feet behind the nozzle and get back in control of it. Of course, that wasn't before I shot water over half the fireground and into the street.

    Still, if the entire hose had become loose... I wouldn't have chased it down. Seems too dangerous for me. Our nozzles are entirely too large and my skull isn't quite that thick. I would have simply told the engineer to kill the line.

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    the reason that i have been charged with conducting the training class is that you learn more by teaching....i am teaching the class but the officers are teaching me the skills and supervising me as i teach the class....they are trying to give me responsibility as to prevent burn-out from doing the same thing over and over....basically it is the same as doing a presentation in school....you learn a lot more by teaching somebody then just listening to somebody teaching to you....
    Find 'Em Hot...Leave 'Em Wet

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    Originally posted by TWEJFD
    General rule-of-thumb: Train the way you play!
    Please NOOOOOOOOOOOO! - Train the way you FIGHT!!! - playing around with a fire instead of fighting it is often what gets us killed
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

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    Originally posted by stillPSFB

    Please NOOOOOOOOOOOO! - Train the way you FIGHT!!! - playing around with a fire instead of fighting it is often what gets us killed

    I think that's what he meant by the term of Train the way you Play.

    I hav'nt heard of to many deaths due to playing around on the Fire Ground, but I have heard of several getting hurt playing around on the training ground.

    When it comes to Fire Ground Operations, thats when all BS stops and it's time to get real and pay attention.

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    Lightbulb Practice the basics...

    I have to agree with MalteseMonster, keep it simple, but work on practicing advancing line up ladders and/or up stairs. Some years ago, the department I was with used to go to parking garages or other buildings where we could get fairly close to a stairwell and then practice advancing the attack lines up the stair and around the building over embankments and other non-level terrains. For companies that don't run a lot of calls and don't pull the preconnects really often, it is a much-needed practice to pull and pack those lines to keep 'tuned up' on performing the evolution when you roll on the scene with smoke showing . I won't name names, but I have been a member of a department or two that, whenever the preconnected lines got pulled at an incident, the old crusty jakes would seek out a "newbie" to repack the preconnect because the old guys couldn't remember the steps involved to pack it right (especially if it was a long line with more than one shoulder load).

    Good luck, and stay safe!
    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

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