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    Question Hi Rise Evacuation

    I was flipping through the channels on TV lastnight and came across an intersesting program about the construction hi rise buildings in Asia and the reconstruction of the towers on the WTC site. When they discussed evacuation, I was shocked at how disfunctional we are in North America. They can evacuate all 15000 people from the Petronas Towers in 20 minutes. In contrast, the people responsible for rebuilding the WTC "boast" that they will be able to evacuate their new building in about 1 hour and that it will be the safest building in America. Why is this kind of emergency response acceptable in North America? Why can't we adopt standards similar to those in Asia? If we had the Asian hirise standards we simply would have lost a couple buildings at the WTC.
    Sometimes, in order to make an operation idiot proof, you must remove the idiot!

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    Default Re: Hi Rise Evacuation

    Originally posted by resqtek
    I was flipping through the channels on TV lastnight and came across an intersesting program about the construction hi rise buildings in Asia and the reconstruction of the towers on the WTC site. When they discussed evacuation, I was shocked at how disfunctional we are in North America. They can evacuate all 15000 people from the Petronas Towers in 20 minutes. In contrast, the people responsible for rebuilding the WTC "boast" that they will be able to evacuate their new building in about 1 hour and that it will be the safest building in America. Why is this kind of emergency response acceptable in North America? Why can't we adopt standards similar to those in Asia? If we had the Asian hirise standards we simply would have lost a couple buildings at the WTC.
    First of all, let me ask the obvious question...What in the hell are you talking about?

    If you are going to make these claims, at least have the intellectual honesty to cite your sources and at least, explain how the Asians perform these miraculous evacuations.

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    George I saw it too on Channel 13 NY public television.

    Asian codes alow for the use of elevators and I honestly was impressed with what they are doing over seas in some respects.

    FTM-PTB

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    Originally posted by FFFRED
    George I saw it too on Channel 13 NY public television.

    Asian codes alow for the use of elevators and I honestly was impressed with what they are doing over seas in some respects.

    FTM-PTB
    I really wasn't doubting that it could happen, but it is far easier to discuss something like that when you have facts instead of ranting. Thanks.

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    Sorry George, I didn't think my post was that complicated. I simply wanted to discuss the differences in what is considered acceptable evacuation from these buildings that are getting higher and higher everytime they build one. I can't possibly imagine how that could have rubbed anyone the wrong way. I wasn't making "claims", merely hoping to discuss a program I saw on TV.



    If the Asians can safely utilize elevators in a mass evacuation why can't we? I don't think 1 hour to evacuate a building is acceptable.
    Sometimes, in order to make an operation idiot proof, you must remove the idiot!

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    I guess the problem with your first post was that it did not point us anywhere to get the information. I had no idea they used elevators until FFFred posted it. Your post says they could get out in 20 minutes as opposed to our 1 hour, but no mention of how or what they do. How could anyone comment on that without seeing the show? Not a problem, just a lack of info.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I found the info for the show on the net. It is called:

    Innovation-show#901-building to extremes
    KSPS PBS Spokane

    It will be airing again on Sunday February 15th at 2 am on KSPS PBS Spokane. Check it out.

    Sorry again for the lack of info. I guess I was hoping someone else had seen the program and would know what it was called. I caught the last half of it but will be taping the whole thing on Sunday.
    Sometimes, in order to make an operation idiot proof, you must remove the idiot!

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    Got a web address for KSPS PBS Spokane? It sounds interesting.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Originally posted by resqtek
    Sorry George, I didn't think my post was that complicated. I simply wanted to discuss the differences in what is considered acceptable evacuation from these buildings that are getting higher and higher everytime they build one. I can't possibly imagine how that could have rubbed anyone the wrong way. I wasn't making "claims", merely hoping to discuss a program I saw on TV.



    If the Asians can safely utilize elevators in a mass evacuation why can't we? I don't think 1 hour to evacuate a building is acceptable.
    First of all, the word "elevator" did not appear in your post. Secondly, using the word "Asians" gives absolutely no clue to exactly which country you were talking about. Japan is in Asia. So is North Korea. Do you think the life safety issues in those countries are addressed the same way? Instead of hysterical rantings, facts would have made it easier to discuss and debate thie issue.

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    The management at the Petronas Towers in Malaysia had originally only planned for evacuation of just one of hte towers at any given time. They would use the walkway that connects the two buildings as an evacuation route for occupants. After the attacks on the wtc, there was a bomb threat at the Petronas Towers, resulting in the evacuation of both towers simultaneously. There were people from both buildings using the walkway, going in different directions. This evacuation prompted a procedural change which has them now using a combination of wide stairwells and elevators for evacuation, resulting in an amazing 20 minute evac of the 15000 occupants. There were two other towers in Shanghai and Taipei being built that had some cool features aswell. Every so many floors the stairwells would come to a large rest area where, if need be, you could cross over to another stairwell or be rescued from the exterior of the building. Fire crews have a series of high speed elevators for emergency use aswell. There are obviously more features that I did not see but the point is, if they can evacuate that many people in that little time, I don't see why we can't. Money is obviously an issue as these features are not going to be cheap, but if you are going to spend that kind of money building the tallest building in the world, what is a little extra to properly protect the occupants and the emrgency crews who will be coming to their aid.
    Sometimes, in order to make an operation idiot proof, you must remove the idiot!

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    George, I assumed that the Petronas Towers were famous enough to let you know that it was Malaysia. Also, the program referred to Asian building code requirements, which may mean that they have a continental building code. I am not familiar with the building code requirements in asia therefore I brought it forth for discussion. I am sorry if it came across as a rant. I assure you it was not. Can we hug now?
    Sometimes, in order to make an operation idiot proof, you must remove the idiot!

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    I think someone does need a hug..........

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    George, you're being cranky hahaha
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

    IACOJ-WOT proud

    GO WHITE SOX!!!!!

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    There could also be different assumptions in place...

    i.e. perhaps Petronas is citing 20 minutes, and the new WTC Engineers are applying fudge factor of saying, 20 minutes ideal x 3 = 1 hour real world.

    Aisa does have some interesting stuff, though. LTI (AmLaf now???) makes a 170' range aerial that has a bucket that runs up & down the ladder to evacuate people, instead of having them try to climb down (most people aren't good at that), or having to continually take the whole aerial up & down like a fixed bucket requires.
    IACOJ Canine Officer
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