1. #1
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    Default Do you know your neighbor?

    How many of you train on apparatus that you don't own? When I started in the fireservice we would have auto aid drills that covered operating a neighbors rig. Lets face it the basic theory is the same but different manufacturers do things differently.
    Now keep in mind I have never had to do more then open a discharge and adjust the throttle on someone elses rig, but my feelings are that we should know how to use our neighbors stuff just in case.
    Just one example that comes in mind is the shutdown difference between E-One and Pierce. Pierce shut off the ignition and the rig turns off. E-One shut off the ignition and you bought a new alternator.
    So what do you think?

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    E-One shut off the ignition and you bought a new alternator.
    ??? As one who runs in a department that has both Pierce's and E-One's, I am lost on this comment. We have, a few times, had our ignition switch hit accidentally resulting in the shutting off of the truck, but have yet to need a new alternator. Is this something with newer models? We only run a 1991 and a 1995. Really, just curious.

    And as for cross-training on our trucks, yes we do. Biggest issue we have found has been newer trucks with pressure regulators/governors over the manual throttle.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    When the ignition switch on an E-One is turned off with the engine still running it isolates the electrical system and the alternator will be damaged. It is about the same as turning off the battery switch while the engine is running.
    Unfortunatly unexperienced MPO's have cost us several alternators over the years.

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    I think its a very good idea to do... Especially with people you have mutaul aid contracts threw... We even go so far as to have training with alot of alot of our close departments... The only truck of ours that most of the other departments dont know how to use is our new teli squirt and heck most of our members dont know how to operate it...

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    E-One shut off the ignition and you bought a new alternator
    I'm confused like Bones. I assume you're talking about an E-One custom?

    We run a 1998 commercial pumper and have never been told anything about ignition/alternator problems.

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    EFD840, I run custom chassis and have not heard that before either. I put a request into our local dealer to see if we can get more information. I'm not doubting ADSNWFLD, just looking for something from my dealer.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    What I think someone is trying to say is that on certain E1s, if you leave the engine running (Diesal) and shut of the master power switch ie battery kill, you will burn an alternator?

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    E-One shut off the ignition and you bought a new alternator.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    unless it is a gas engine, I doubt it has an ignition switch

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    ADSNWFLD has a very valid point. Especially with mutual aid, you should know how to operate your neighbor's equipment.

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    Talking

    Learning your other deaprtments rigs and their special ops is a good idea.

    I seem to have more problems with departments that don't do enough training on their own rigs. Problems range from can't get water from the pump to not understanding drafting, pump vapor lock, etc. There are a few of us "old timers" that are in demand on the fireground when something goes wrong. Usually it is a simple fix but we have been accused of carrying a rattle and chicken bones in our turnouts.

    Stay Safe
    IACOJ

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    "We run a 1998 commercial pumper and have never been told anything about ignition/alternator problems."

    It isn't a problem, it is just the nature of the beast. Lets take a look at the older rigs for a second to beter clarify this. One of the first rigs I worked on was a 72 Seagrave.(Diesel) The electrical system was responsible for running the starter, which started the engine running. Once running it didn't need electricity to continue running. One night at a fire the batteries took a dump. We had no lights but the rig continued to pump till the end of the fire and back to quarters. The two systems were independent and in my opinion a better system.
    Anyway, when the electrical system is shut down but the engine continues to run the alternator is continuing to put out power. The power has nowhere to go and the alternator suffers for it. This can be caused by a malfunction or more commonly by someone shutting off the batteries while the engine runs. Keep in mind that new rigs have huge alternators and are more subject to damage then the older rigs that had alternators of similar size to modern pick ups.
    Back to the E-One custom. Some switches are different but on many E-Ones You have a battery switch, then a ignition switch, then a start/stop switch. When running if the ignition switch is turned off (the shut off procedure for a Pierce) the electrical system is isolated and the alternator can be damaged.

    I didn't mean for this to get off topic but this goes back to a more fundamental point that we should learn both our rigs as well as our neighbors.

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    Interesting. We had a problem a few years ago, when our mutual aid company requested our help. A FF (not engineer, but the Chief's son) started operating our brand new CAFS truck. Almost destroyed the $40,000 CAFS system. We had a "strongly worded" discussion with him. Our engineers are not allowed to leave the truck. (Our engineer had to peel this guy away from our control panel.)
    With the variety of trucks, and thus operating systems, around here, our policy is engineers stay with their trucks, and we don't operate other folk's equipment - we get them to do it.

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    My department likes to cross train with our mutual aid companies 5 or 6 times a year in all different types of training. We usually dont train on apparatus because mainly our apparatus is all the same, but we do train on techniques and search and rescue etc.. My town gets abandoned buildings donated to us to train in on techniques in cold smoke atmospheres since NJ does not allow live burn drills on non fire academy grounds. Its good to work with your neighbors this way if you get sent with a group of guys and they do certain things this way..you understand when the time comes to go to work..
    Andrew
    Firefighter/EMT
    New Jersey

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    We train quite a bit with the other area FD's. We have county SOP's so we do a lot of drills to make sure everyone is on the same page. And while we do train on the equipment that everyone carry's we dont do any training on the operation of the apparatus. The SOP's state that if an apparatus is in operation, (pumping, aerial opps and so on) the the driver stays with the rig , so the need to operate someone elses apparatus most likley will never occur. It helps that most of the area depts. use Pierce so in an emergency, I'm sure we could all figure out how to shut down the pump or engine or move it if they had to, no matter who's it was.

    Dave

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