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  1. #1
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    Unhappy FDNY High School

    What do you all think of this idea?
    I myself disagree, although It is a great opportunity for young adults that are seriously pursuing a career as a firefighter, but that is cutting down the chances of people wanting to become a Firefighter for the city of New York, you'll have all these high school graduates already EMT certified and have trained with the FDNY coming into the department, its hard enough already to get hired. It seems the graduates would have a hands-down chance at getting a job.

    I also dont agree with the fact that these kids are getting trained all through high school, its pretty much a training school. Why should young adults else where have to attend a normal high school then go on to pursue their career in Firefighting by attending college, and taking EMT/Paramedic classes to become certified, while these kids are being certified right at school before they graduate.
    Last edited by SagTwpStation3; 02-11-2004 at 05:34 PM.


  2. #2
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    Thumbs down

    Give me a break..... I think that is a stupid idea. its not the city's fault that minoritys DONT want to be NYC firefighters. If they want the job they SHOULD go through the same task's as a "non-minority" applicant. Example: Going to college for the 30 credits, going through EMT or CFR class. Whats next? 5 extra points on the written exam to for being a minority????

  3. #3
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    Default Easy in?

    This whole FDNY High School things seems like an "easy in" for a small group of people. Is this going to be available to young people from all over the city or just a select group of students who happen to live nearby? Who would manage it and set the standards? Will the standards be as high as they were for current firefighters? What about the two years of college that are required to get into the FDNY? I'm curious as to what current FDNY firefighters think about this? The FDNY is world renowned already. If it ain't broken, don't fix it!

  4. #4
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    Default high school

    I took the last test given,#2043,i can honeslty say that i could probably count on my hands how many minorities where at my test site. One thing i do remember is while we were waiting in-line outside,a car pulled up and a African-American woman got out of the car and opened the back door and walked her son to the end of the line to make sure he got in line for the test.He did not appear to be too pleased to be there.I feel that no matter what your race,religion or beliefs are,you deserve to have a shot at the best job in the world.However,if a person is not willing to put the effort forward to get on the job, then how is a recruiting program going to help.

  5. #5
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    Unfortunately this school mostly, not all, but mostly seems to be about getting minorities on the job. I mean look where they want to put the school, East New York; thats not exactly one of the nicer sections of the city. This always makes me angry because like many of you have stated its all about who wants the job the most. Its all about how much time and effort you put into it. If minorities want the job they will go and get it just like anyone else who wants it!!

    We all know firefighting is a job of tradition also and we all know how difficult it is to break tradition. So when you have fathers and sons and grandsons all joining the dept. its tough to break something like that. And obviously the FD is "mostly" Irish and Italian

    And as for the students getting on the job simply because they attended the high school would have to go against some type of civil service law, does'nt it???? And yea it would make me angry after going to college for a bunch of years and gettting CFR-D doing all that work and then someone gets on because they went to the FDNY H.S.


    I think it is a bad idea!!!!!!

  6. #6
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    Default

    FDNY/Homeland Security High School?

    How about Peter Gancy or Raymond Downey High School!
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  7. #7
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Truely a lame idea...

    Who thunk this one up??? Give me a break.
    Cant the FDNY just start a recruitment
    campaign or programs? Visit the current
    high schools, show videos, bring an
    engine or somethnig better than starting
    a HS?

    Sounds like a big waste of $$$ to me...

  8. #8
    Forum Member Robertsc's Avatar
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    Default

    Here in Maine our Voc School has a Emergency services program, they are placed as Jr Firefighters in station houses and work for their part. Good program over all though the Departments are mostly Volly in this state we have had alot of sucesses.
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear" - Ambrose Redmoon
    ďItís like Legoís for firefighters.Ē Robert James III talking about hose appliances.
    "Police, Firefighters and EMS are the most collectively dysfunctional group of people in existence and only we understand each other!"

  9. #9
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    Who thunk this one up??? Give me a break.
    Cant the FDNY just start a recruitment
    campaign or programs? Visit the current
    high schools, show videos, bring an
    engine or somethnig better than starting
    a HS?
    Bou,
    Believe it or not it has been done and continues to be done. They were in every neighborhood every school...or should I say every minority neghborhood & school. Before and during the filing period (which was extended because there weren't enough minorities) they were in these vans that would go around and try to get these kids to sign up. They had countless posters and ads promoting this, in subways on busses..everywhere. You couldn't be in the city for 5 minutes and not see it.

    Many kids that didn't have criminal background which would preclude them saw the pay or just weren't interested at all to begin with. City residents do get 5 points on the test. If you miss one or none and have city credit...you get hired easily within a year on most lists. There is NO interview so it is the most unbiasest testing procedure for a city I know of. You pass the Civil service test proving your merit & fitness for the job, you get hired. The test isn't even administered by the FD it is by another completely independent city agency DCAS. We have no say in the test scores or results of who is higher on the list than others. It takes minimal effort to do this. The NYPD and EMS will take you right off the street they are so desperate.

    Some younger kids (Ages 9-12) from the projects down the street from my firehouse were hanging around out front one night. We asked them what would they want to do when they grow up. A ten-year old replied he wanted to be a porn star! After we had a good laugh about that we asked if any of them wanted to be firemen. Almost at the same time they replied..."I don't want to die." We told them it isn't like that...but they see the news...they see it in their neighborhoods. They see burned firemen on the news, they have seen peoples apartments burn up in their buildings. They didn't believe anything we would tell them explaining it isn't as unsafe as they thought.

    It is hard to get someone to sign-up for a job they want nothing to do with. It is hard to compete with that reality.

    Did the recruitment effort pay off in increasing the numbers, the numbers that the politicans want to see?...it is yet to be seen. I'm sure it did to a degree but there have already been complaints that it didn't go far enough.

    These Highschool kids if this school thing gets off the ground have to wait to 21 to get appointed to a civil service job and they will still have to take one of the tests.

    Who knows what will happen with this.

    FTM-PTB
    Last edited by FFFRED; 02-12-2004 at 01:21 AM.

  10. #10
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    Welcome to the World of the Metro-DC Area.

    The DC Fire Department has had a high school cadet program for years. I guess it has had it's good points because it's still around. I know a couple years ago they had 2 cadets involved in a drug related shooting. The DC Schools are probably some of the worst in the Country, so you can imagine what they are pulling talent from. They are getting better though, because I think each year, the non-delinquent high school student base gets smaller and they are forced to hire non-city residents to fill the vacancies.

    I have several friends that have been denied jobs or knocked back on the DCFD list because of the CAdet program. But it's a necessary evil in Civil Service Employment and the only thing you can do is deal with it or move to that city and go to high school there.

    Once you get involved in attempting to diversify your ranks, the White Male moves to the bottom of the food chain when it comes to employment, and it's just something to deal with. No need to get upset, because if you get upset, you will just be branded a racist.

    Try the Federal Government or a surrounding county to get your feet wet. The Federal Government, I beleive, does not have to adhere to Affirmative Action Requirements (They take the most qualified dude) and the surrounding counties might operate the same way if they have career departments.
    Last edited by TillerMan25; 02-12-2004 at 06:48 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default

    So let me get this straight....

    You are against the idea of a high school dedicated to educating young people, who are New York City residents, while at the same time recruiting them and preparing them for a position which will make them productive citizens and allow them to provide for a family and to have a secure future.

    You are against the idea of a high school to help the FDNY solve a systemic problem in recruiting minorities and females into the fire service in an innovative way.

    You are against the idea of a high school program which may actually interest kids and keep them in school, instead of being on the street and becoming a drain on society...

    All because it would make it harder for people who do not live in the city to become a member of the FDNY?

    Oh. I understand.

    You should also know that there are dedicated specialized high schools all over the city. While there is an emphasis on the specialty, they offer the advantage of grouping kids of similar interests, thereby making school more interesting and relevant, with the expected outcome of keeping kids in school and preparing them for a career.

    I see this high school program as having the opposite effect that the some people are describing. The city has a high minority population, as well as an obviously high female population. It also has a disproportionately low number of females and minorities on the job. Maybe one of the reasons is that the most qualified minority students choose careers in other fields, leaving many unqualified or unmotivated students to compete for FDNY jobs. If the high school serves to recruit some of the best and brightest high school kids, particularly minority kids, into the ranks of the FDNY, it solves the minority hiring problem, while at the same time maintaining the necessarily high standards required of FDNY people.

    Seems like a win/win to me.

    BTW< if you do not live in the city, you should not view that you have a "right" to become FDNY (Yes, I did take the test in 1979 or so and came out about 4,000 out of about 35, 000 applicants. I was up in the top 1000 or so by the time the list expired).

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber Diane E's Avatar
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    Default

    I have to agree with George on this one. And if it keeps kids from dropping out of school, ending up on welfare (not that all drop-outs end up on welfare, I don't want be accused of "generalizing"), and getting into trouble then why not? Who wouldn't want to graduate high school with EMS certifications and the potential of a great job? Especially if college isn't an option.
    "When I was young, my ambition was to be one of the people who made a difference in this world. My hope is to leave the world a little better for my having been there."
    -- Jim Henson (1936 - 1990)

  13. #13
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    Thumbs up

    10-4 George and Diane.

    I would much rather see students that live in a city actually give back to thier city in some positive way other than filling up their Jail Cells and clogging up their Judicial and Penal systems and their Emergency Rooms with Overdose cases or Shooting Vicitms.

    For the Record,

    This is possibly a good thing for the FDNY and I hope it works in their favor in the future. It might not work the best for all cities, but maybe this one will work and give other cities a model to use to try and help the youth have brighter futures.

    Sorry if you don't live in the city and one of these kids gets your job (that you seem to think you are entitled to) but if one kid is turned into a Model Human being instead of a drug slinging malingerer (sp) because of this program, than it has worked and you can test again next time.

  14. #14
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    I don't know if this will work out. We'll see.

    The reality is if a young black male gets through the city school system and goes to college and graduates he has any number of corporate companies in Midtown and Wall Street who are looking to hire him because they need to hire minorities as well. They offer alot more money and benefits and in some peoples eyes greater oportunities, and that is what seems to be attracting these kids. Or at least the ones I hear about.

    FTM-PTB

  15. #15
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    I think its a good idea. Why not. I hope it attracts some good kids. There are many High Schools in NYC that are geared toward specific professions. Maybe a kid that never thought of becoming a firefighter will see how great a job it is. You dont have to be a buff to be a good fireman.
    Buy the way, the black firemen Ive worked with (some fantastic firefighters) all say the same thing. The reason they're on the job is because they wanted it as bad as the next guy, and prepared as hard as they could for it. As it should be.
    I hope the school happens.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber EFD840's Avatar
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    Default

    Oh No!

    MattyJ and Tiller agreed on something, and FFRED came close to agreeing with Tiller too!

    Save yourselves! The end is near! Run for the hills! The sky is falling!!!

    Ok, now that I had my fun , it sounds like a very worthwhile effort even if it doesn't result in improving minority participation in the FDNY. You will never, ever go wrong when you expose adolescents to a culture that values honor, courage, sacrifice, brotherhood, and community service.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default

    Will the FDNY high school be as understaffed as FDNY engines/trucks?

    Not that it matters to anyone, but I think it could be a good idea.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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