1. #1
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    Default Recent fatal fire in Buffalo

    In the last couple of weeks, there was another incident in Buffalo in which people involved in a fire could have been saved had the nearest firehouse to their location been open. I do not know all the details on this, but I am convinced that Anthony Masiello's firehouse closings in Buffalo are costing people their lives and it does not have to be that way. Just because Buffalo,NY is in dire financial straits does NOT give the mayor the right to play Russian Roulette with people's lives. With the recent fire house closings, that is exactly what Mayor Masiello has been doing. What will it take for him to wise up to the fact that fire house closings are playing Russian Roulette with people's lives, a major fire at one of the city schools with Children trapped in side and the nearest active firehouse is on the other side of town? I am fortunate that I live in a small town served by an excellent volunteer fire department every bit as professional as a paid department. I am not knocking paid departments, for that is where my sympathies lie, and not with corrupt politicians like Anthony Massiello who has been screwing over the Buffalo Fire Department ever since he took office. Having spent time in the city of Buffalo during the 1970s, I am thankful that the Buffalo Fire Department was able to respond quickly to personal emergencies I got hit with that I thought were life threatening. Those guys are really great, the women, too. I have nothing but praise for the Buffalo Fire Department, FDNY and any other fire department, my contempt is with the politicians who keep screwing over the emergency services.

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    Rangerjim, I am absolutely NOT a Masiello advocate, nor do I like to see FF laid off. But I assure you that the recent firehouse closings in Buffalo have affected response times only MINIMALLY. There is no location in the city of Buffalo where the closest station is "all the way across town". Lets face it; a minute or two is NEVER going to make a difference - that's pure hollywood. The effect of the closings on public safety is minimal at best, and has been greatly inflated to the local media by the local FF union.

    How come there is no public outcry over the DISMAL ambulance service in the city of buffalo? RM and TCA play "Russian Roullette" much more than any firehouse closing ever could, considering how they move their cars around constantly and lie about who is closer to calls. and ambulance calls must outnumber calls for working fires by what, something like 100 to 1?

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    It's human nature to want closure with something. Fatalities are hard to accept, and we as people WANT to assign blame to someone or something. Of course I know nothing of the circumstances behind THIS particular tragedy, and I apologize for winging it & using general thoughts. "could have been saved..." that's a tough row to hoe, my friend. We can't play the "what if?" game with life & death. I'm not jumping on the "bash private EMS" bandwagon like I normally might, but it sounds like the city might have more pressing issues, like EMS coverage. I hear your concerns & frustrations, but some things are just out of our control. Take care...
    ~Kevin
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    --^v--^v--^v--^v--
    Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong
    Dennis Miller

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    One of the fatal fires may have involved a station that was on a call. No equipment was moved to fill that station. The next due was a distance away. When the BPD arrived they could hear the trapped occupants. Those extra minutes can and do make a difference.
    Buffalo does have a high f/f to population ratio when compared to the rest of the nation. On the other hand, many areas of Buffalo city are far below current construction standards. Lets face it, old wood construction within feet of each other, mixed with vacants, and filled with low to no income occupants equal a high life/fire load.
    It is the political atmosphere and the all mighty dollar that will dictate the future of BFD. Buffalo is broke, and all public service employees are justified in the fear for their jobs.
    EMS in Buffalo is a whole topic in itself. The lack of firm contracts, poor call priority, substandard dispatching, and delays at the hospitals are at best a humorless joke.

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    Well Mr. “So Called Supermedic”, lets see how much you REALLY have NO IDEA what you are talking about!!

    #1: You say that a minute or two will NEVER make a difference – well you’re wrong. If my memory serves me correctly, about 4 yrs ago, while working as an EMS provider in Buffalo, my partner and I treated and transported a 12 yr old boy, rescued from a structure fire on 15th St in by Eng 37 and Lad 4, 2nd Platoon. Minutes, possibly even seconds DID count. The Doctors said that had he been in the smoke and fire conditions he was in any longer, he WOULD NOT have made it. Today he is 16 yrs old and doing great. Go ahead...you can say it...okay I will...YOU’RE WRONG!!

    And #2: If you actually took the time to research why RM and TCA shift their cars around so much, you would know that the “Russian Roulette” game, as you call it, is how ADI keeps all areas of the City covered at all times. And it works very well. And for who's closer, WHO CARES!! Hmmm let me think...looks like...yeah...YOU’RE WRONG AGAIN!!!

    The Buffalo Fire Department is by far, hands down, the best provider of Fire Protection that is offered in this area. They are the Pro's and should be treated as such. So, Mr. Superidiot, next time you think about posting your point of view, you might want to have all your facts straight. And I agree with Joe from Trk 14...G.F.Y!!!!

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    The bug summed it all up for you. YOU"RE WRONG!!!!!!

    The city of Buffalo Firefighters are by far under appreciated by the administration and damn near every politician in this county. They are superior at what they do and deserve the respect. They go in put out the fire and are ready for the next no BS in the middle. I post the Buffalo calls and every time you can expect to see "under control" time is 20 minutes or less. Unless of course it's a 2 Alarm or greater. They are quick and they are good. Why? Training and experience.

    At one point this year (2004) they had 70 working structure fires in 77 days. I'm not a mathemetician but I think anyone can see that is a lot of fires. Some were coming 2-3 in a row. Clear one here comes another or even 2 at the same time. As in TRK14's post a 1st alarm assignment is 3 & 3 plus the Rescue and a chief. Now you get 2 fires going in the same part of the city blocks away from each other as in the first fatal fire of the year and what do you think happens? Engine 18 was closed by the guy (I cant even call him the mayor anymore) who runs this city, and they would have been first in on the 2nd fire (the fatality)and on scene within minutes. Oh wait "a minute or two don't count". I dont think I have ever heard a more moronic statement than that in my life. Supermedic14 must have read that in "Firefighting for Dummies". So, why doesn't that guy at city hall close some more companies and we can all watch the city burn. Masiello must have stock in marshmallows cause thats what its coming down to. The city burns and the residents that survive can roast them on the open flames.

    To supermedic14: If you want to bash or talk about something you obviously have no idea about grow a set and sign your name, and what you do for a living. I'm guessing politician cause no medic would ever say a minute or two dont count.

    To ALL the Buffalo FF's: you guys do a hell of a job and keep it up. Stay low stay safe.

    Mike
    ECFW

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    WTF ever. You guys are on crack - stop spending so much money at the corner of Fillmore and E. Ferry, and stop watching so many freakin' "Rescue 77" reruns. Start taking calls in the city and then tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

    I am in FULL support of all of the Buffalo firefighters, and I agree that they do a GREAT job. I don't like the idea of a FF losing his job anymore than anyone else does. And I certainly don't like the idea of people dying because of stations closing.

    However, lets face the facts here. Honestly now, how many times can anyone HONESTLY claim - with certainty - that "If we were there just ONE or TWO minutes later, the patient DEFINITELY would've died..."? I'm not saying it's NEVER happened, but if public safety were truly worth ANY COST, then alot of other things we do would be done differently.....
    I have INTIMATE knowledge of the city of Buffalo, and of the fire and EMS operations there. I know from years of experience why and how ADI moves ambulances around. The EMS coverage there is a JOKE.

    My point is this: There are MANY more EMS calls in any given time period than there are working fire or rescue calls. Given that info, if people were REALLY concerned about the safety of the city of Buffalo, then why is there not more outcry over the performance of EMS in the city? I can ASSURE you all, it is DISMAL...

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    WOW!! Isn't it just great when someone stumbles over themselves and their own contradiction! First it's "It will NEVER make a difference" - then it's "I'm not sayin it's NEVER happened" - so which is it?? (way to go Supermedic - you're on a roll). And what's with this Rescue 77 thing? And do you mean the C-Dist Police Station or the Chinese Restaurant at Fillmore and Ferry? I guess I'm missing something - oh well. Oh yeah - by the way - I DO take calls in the City - and LOTS of them. That's what happens when you work at night in our lovely violence filled City. But you know all about that due to your level of experience and intimacy with the City. I guess you really are SUPER!!!

    Obviously, your original posting was just a shot at the City's EMS dilemmas the whole time. So, what was the purpose of bashing the Fire Dept and the FF's union? Leave them out of your issues. If you haven’t noticed, they are on OUR SIDE!! But I don’t need to tell you with your EXPERIENCE and all. Is it that you are disgruntled at your employer - be it R/M or TCA, or are you just getting to that "Burnt Out" point? Get over it or find a new line of work!! Well, whatever your reason, make sure you say hi when you see me next - not too hard to figure out. I’ll do my best to explain your hang up to all my friends in the Fire Dept that you so graciously insulted the first time around. Rodger that??!!

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    Again supermedic has been able to "open mouth insert foot".

    First of all there supermedic- if you think I'm on crack you need to get a life. So we have an opinion on your posting proving you to be an idiot and the first thing you come out with is a defensive remark like "you guys are on crack".

    Second- How do you know where to buy it? Sample it yourself?

    Third- ADI moves ambulances around so there is coverage in all zones for idiots like you who call 911 for a hangnail and not a real emergency. Today alone there was 3 code saves in the city by R/M cause ADI moved an ambulance into each of those zones instead of leaving them empty with no coverage. I have no idea if TCA had any & if they did kudos to them as well.

    Fourth- Like I said in my previous post grow a set and sign your name and gee I don't know how about telling us what you do and where you do it. Seeing as how you seem to be an expert in the field of EMS and Firefighting.

    You are right that there are far more EMS calls than working fires. NOONE can dispute that in Buffalo. Did anyone stop to think that maybe the pay rate for an EMT or Medic in NY may have something to with it? Who the hell wants to work for $8 or less an hour and put their lives on the line everday? No system is perfect, I dont care where you live.

    Have a good day!!!!!

    Mike
    R/M employee
    Last edited by ecfwire; 05-02-2004 at 11:38 AM.

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    I live in Ohio, but my Mom was born and rasied in Buffalo and her family still lives there. I visit there I know many Buffalo firefighters personaly. All think that the firehouse closings have compromised the ability of the BFD to serve the City. Ask any firefighter, EMT, or paramedic and they will tell you that MINUTES (yes minutes) HAVE made a difference between life and death.
    ------------------------------------
    These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
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    supermedic you are wrong minutes do matter in a life and death situation such as a working structure fire with people trapped and I have nothing but the utmost respect for the firefighters in buffalo.
    I am a firefighter but only a volunteer in allegany county. We answer about 60 0r 70 fire calls in a year these guys in Buffalo get 1 or 2 or even more in a day amazing and too have them under control in 20 minutes or less amazing.

    These guys are role models for a young firefighter like me I will be training for interior firefighter this spring and also EMT-B. The guys are also underpaid for there work.



    jeremiah

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    Gentleman, it seems your having a heated discussion.
    Reading the commentary it sounds like some people are forgetting that timing counts. I remember hearing some of my instructors say "In this line of business timing is everything, but safety is first." I think some may forget that. It's always sad to see that we are the first to get cut from the towns priority list (it's never good when a fire house closes, unless a new one takes its place) because we know we are always the first on the blame list when the finger gets pointed. Seems to be that we cant win either way.

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    It is obvious that many of you have strong opinions on the matter of house closings. I am a member of a small combination department south of the city in Fredonia, where I serve as a company Lt. I have many good friends at BFD and would hate to see any more of them loose thier job's. Many of these guy's have alway's been firefighter's and realy don't feel that flipping burger's is an alternative, and I don't blame them. Mayor Masiello and the rest of his cronies over at city hall need to rethink thing's. It's sad that when people don't see us doing the job because we're there doing well and fast that they think we're not needed. What is it going to take another big industrial fire killing a few more of our brother's for the public to wake up.
    It really fries me that people forget so quickly. Just the other day some one asked me why i still wear the memorial braclet i have from 9-11. WOW talk about instant rage. I wanted to through him thru a wall. I can't believe that the general public has become so complaicent that they still don't see the news footage in thier mind when they see an engine or ladder go by. Wake up people Firefighter's are the one's risking thier's to save your's and eventualy with all the cut's when your's is on the line and thier not there you'll think twice about it. And where will the mayor point his finger whene the emergency hits a friend or loved one of his near a house that he closed. Think about that one.

    Jasen
    Lt. Fredonia Fire

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    I agree with Jimithebug18 minutes do count I live in williamson, ny and I just joined the fire deparment July 11th and the fist fatal mva call I went on was back in septempet, The person who died was a kid 18 y.o.,he died from his inguries sustained from the crash. The call went out as a 2 car mva with a car on fire and by the time our first truck rolled up on sceen the car was fully ingulfed and thank god a by-stander and a NY State Trooper who pulled out the driver the only ocupant of the car b/c he would have died a much worse death by being burned alive. at least buy the by-stander jumping in to action and pulling the kid out it gave him a better chance of survival. So supermedic14 dont say minutes dont count they do. I live practualy next door to my fire deparment and even though I am so close when I here such a sever call as that I dont wast time getting to the fire hall I drop what ever i am doing no matter what it is b/c I know Minutes count and even seconds count. refer to attached file for artical it is in pdf form once it loads go to page 8

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