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  1. #41
    MembersZone Subscriber swrr88's Avatar
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    Kerry's Plans? How confident can you be in him?


    The Washington Post today..."As a candidate for the Senate in 1984, Kerry proposed eliminating a series of weapons systems, including the B-1 and B-2 bombers, the F-14A, F-14D and F-15 fighter jets, the Aegis air-defense cruiser, the Patriot missile system and the M1 Abrams tank, among others. Kerry told the Boston Globe last year that some of those proposals were "ill-advised, and I think some of them are stupid in the context of the world we find ourselves in right now and the things that I've learned since then..."


    Washington Post..."In the stump speech he delivers virtually every day, Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.) stirs the Democratic faithful by railing against current trade practices and slamming President Bush's policies on education, civil liberties and Iraq. But the Democratic front-runner does not mention how he, as senator, supported the president on all four issues, helping cement in law what he often describes as flawed government policies."



    President Bush...."The other party's nomination battle is still playing out. The candidates are an interesting group, with diverse opinions: For tax cuts, and against them. For NAFTA, and against NAFTA. For the Patriot Act, and against the Patriot Act. In favor of liberating Iraq, and opposed to it. And that's just one senator from Massachusetts."


    No one man is the answer to everyone's problems. However, Kerry likes to say he is with answers for all sides....then he just "changes his mind" later on when he is better "informed."
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson


  2. #42
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    Originally posted by swrr88
    Kerry's Plans? How confident can you be in him?
    Now at least Kerry has a plan to help my SPECIAL INTEREST. I have not heard or seen a plan from Mr. Bush.
    REMEMBER I AM OF A SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP.
    NOTE:This tread is about IAFF and FIREPAC.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
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  3. #43
    MembersZone Subscriber swrr88's Avatar
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    "NOTE:This tread is about IAFF and FIREPAC"

    I know...I started it.

    This is exactly about FIREPAC and IAFF. They are endorsing a man who could be a risk to the nation's security because he has kissed up to them by promising things they are taking as set in stone. However, they are not even considering his habit of "changing his mind" and bluntly stating...oh, I voted for it then but I was wrong. I am against this but I voted for it every time it came to floor. They endorse him even though Edwards actually voted more their way on the big issues.

    They are well aware we are at war and yet they take a man who has proven to be anti-defense, anti intelligence solely because he may give them something they want. They say he will protect fire fighters from terrorism but voted to get rid of every single defense system we are using in the war. Who cares how much he promises FDNY for training and equipment when he doesn't do anything to stop the terrorists from hitting us again.

    How seriously will our enemies take a president who supported everything BUSH did until the road got rough and then he back peddled. How much strength will that present to Bin Laden?

    Fire Pac and the IAFF are putting their own self serving goals ahead of the well being of the nation as a whole.
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  4. #44
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    supported the IAFF's FIRE Act
    Damn, I always thought it used to be FEMA's FIRE Act. Guess that's why we keep getting turned down.

    $1.1 million is going to Canadian American Transportation Systems, LLC of Rochester
    Your own reps are giving more money to other companies than the FDNY.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  5. #45
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Damn, I always thought it used to be FEMA's FIRE Act. Guess that's why we keep getting turned down.
    While he does support FULL FUNDING of the FIRE Act. I believe what was being referred to was the SAFER Act.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  6. #46
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    Let me take this one Ray.

    Again: explain to me why exactly my tax dollars should buy Outagamie County, Wisconsin a bomb trailer?
    I can think of no good reason for your federal tax dollars to be spent on a bomb trailer in Outagamie County, Wisconsin.

    However, thinking that the base of the very economy that keeps you employed and paying those taxes is sitting here in downtown Manhattan with a bullseye on it, I would think the Feds would do more to protect it. You see, the "WORLD TRADE CENTER" was not the name of a building, it was a actual location.

    Another item of interest would be The United Nations. I could care less if it was moved to Haiti, but for now it is on our shore and should be protected.

    Most easily forgotten by some of the "Right" people, was the speech stating these vital points must be better protected and "help is on the way". I'm waiting

  7. #47
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    So it should be the responsibility of the federal government to fill holes in the budget's of local fire departments?
    "help is on the way". I'm waiting
    Sorry to butt in, but I think what happened in NYC goes a bit beyond the "usual" fill-in-the-holes-in-local-budget issue.

    Of course, feel free to correct me if you think my opinion/understanding is wrong. Maybe I'm missing something ....
    September 11th - Never Forget

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  8. #48
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Sorry to butt in, but I think what happened in NYC goes a bit beyond the "usual" fill-in-the-holes-in-local-budget issue.
    To a point I agree with you. The federal government cannot, nor should it, pick up the entire tab for the FDNY. Apparatus replacement and general operating expenses are not what is necessary. New equipment to handle NBC attacks, stockpiles of meds for chemical weapons, training money, etc. Radio communications that have been deficient for years are not. If the system was broken, then NYC needs to fix it, not me in central Mass.

    While he does support FULL FUNDING of the FIRE Act. I believe what was being referred to was the SAFER Act.
    The Fire Act is another thing regarding why I am paying for somehting in Podunk, Utah, but we have had this argument many times adn neither of us will change our minds.

    As for the SAFER Act, again, it will nto place more firefighters on the streets in the long run, so why even do it? So a politician can score a few points? Come on! And while teh IAFF may advocate for the legislation, it is not the "IAFF's SAFER Act."
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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  9. #49
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    As for the SAFER Act, again, it will nto place more firefighters on the streets in the long run, so why even do it? So a politician can score a few points? Come on! And while teh IAFF may advocate for the legislation, it is not the "IAFF's SAFER Act."
    This is the same tired arguement used against the COPS program of the nineties. The number may be in dispute, but to say no additional firefighters will be on the streets is BS.

    Just as with COPS, believe it or not, there will be many new hires. True, many may be hired to replace retiring personnel. The fact is there are municipalities in this country that will add to their ranks with this money. Especially if you believe the economy will continue to improve. Communities that do not have the ability to pay additional firefighters now may well have those funds available in the future when the grant money runs out. For these communities, the program is just what the doctor ordered. I saw it happen with COPS.

    As for your comments on SAFER, you are half right.


    From the IAFF site:

    The S.A.F.E.R. Fire Fighters Act
    In response to the September 11 terrorist attacks that killed thousands of Americans, including 343 IAFF fire fighters, the IAFF is spearheading a new initiative to hire an additional 75,000 fire fighters to prepare for future attacks. Currently, two-thirds of all fire departments are understaffed to safely and effectively respond to emergencies faced by fire fighters on a daily basis--let alone a terrorist attack. The IAFF, in partnership with the IAFC, is proposing a new federal grant program to hire more fire fighters so that communities will be adequately protected.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  10. #50
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    It may be a tired argument, but it is true. By your own post you admit that many are being hired to replace retirements. So what in the heck is the point? Why should you give the town the money to do what they are going to do anyway?

    The economy will improve adn city adn town coughers will expand. It is at that point that we, as public safety prefoessionals, must ensure tht depleted manpower rolls are rebuilt to a satisfactory level. Because, after all, it is a local responsibility to provide for adequate police and fire protection, not the federal government's.

    Oh yeah, it is the federal government's responsibility to step in every time and in every situation where the local government fails to provide for everything, and in every situation. I forgot about that.

    Don't complain about the high rate of taxation then. (Not personally directed)
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  11. #51
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]It may be a tired argument, but it is true. By your own post you admit that many are being hired to replace retirements. So what in the heck is the point? Why should you give the town the money to do what they are going to do anyway?[/QUOTE

    I understand. I personally think there should be language in the legislation that prohibits that practice. If the language were written in such a manner, the Act would get better results. And, no it is not true that it will not put any new firefighters on the street. It is a popular mantra by the neo-cons, but it isn't so.



    Don't complain about the high rate of taxation then. (Not personally directed)
    I don't complain about my taxes. You see it takes money to operate a government. You know what is worse than a "tax and spend liberal", a "spend without taxing conservative". If only Dubya spent the money more wisely.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  12. #52
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    This is the same tired arguement used against the COPS program of the nineties. The number may be in dispute, but to say no additional firefighters will be on the streets is BS.
    What streets will they be protecting?????

    From the AP wire:

    Two Democratic lawmakers charged Monday that New York and other big cities have been shortchanged by the federal homeland security grant program that targets local fire departments.

    Reps. Carolyn Maloney and Joseph Crowley said that funds from the FIRE Act grant program are being spent disproportionately on small towns that tend to be Republican, even though large cities face a greater terrorism threat.

    They said Montana received $9.07 per person in FIRE Act funds in fiscal year 2003, compared with 9 cents per person in New York City.

    "City firefighters will meet the terror threat first, but they are being thought of last when it comes to homeland security funds from Washington," said Maloney, who chairs the Task Force on Homeland Security for the House Democratic Caucus.

    The program was created in 2000 and was expanded after the terrorist attacks of 2001. President Bush has proposed cutting the funding for the program from $746 million to $500 million in his 2005 budget.

  13. #53
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Reps. Carolyn Maloney and Joseph Crowley said that funds from the FIRE Act grant program are being spent disproportionately on small towns that tend to be Republican, even though large cities face a greater terrorism threat
    Send these two a letter explaining that the FIRE Act grant program in 2003 was to provide basic Firefighting needs, not homeland security. It's pretty scary when someone who chairs a committee does not know what the money they are going after is for.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  14. #54
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Gotta side with Bones on this one. If they were to complain about not getting their share of SAFER money they would have a legitimate argument.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  15. #55
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default FIREPAC

    Is VOLUNTARY
    YOU have the right to vote for whomever you choose at election time.
    THE IAFF supports candidates that are supportive of it, both Democratic and Republican.
    DON'T LIKE THE WAY THE UNION IS RUN? Then get involved at the local level and work for change...
    So if fire and EMS are not the "biggest part" of any firefighters political agenda what are ?

    I am interested in why a fireman from Tennessee would support a President who is CLEARLY against your right to sit across from your employer to negotiate things like pay and benefits.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  16. #56
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    So if fire and EMS are not the "biggest part" of any firefighters political agenda what are ?
    Safety of my country. Fair taxes. A person who makes a decision and stands by it - not changing his mind because it won't get him votes. Then again, I'm not in the IAFF, I'm only a "guest" in this thread.

    ps - thanks though for the information that was passed back and forth on this thread. It's nice to see adults exchanging opinions.
    Last edited by Bones42; 02-25-2004 at 09:48 AM.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #57
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    Then again, I'm not in the IAFF, I'm only a "guest" in this thread.
    Bones, you're a welcome "Member" of all the FH forums, as we all are. Fact is, the vast majority of firefighters in this country are volunteers and could have a much greater impact in a national election than the paid/IAFF members alone. While there are many issues that the two differ on, it's my opinion, the issues which have the greatest impact on both firefighter and civilian safety are our common ground.

    DHS and those who put it together have stated the importance of first responders in this country, yet they don't seem to grasp the needs when it comes to mitigation of a major MCI. I see the focus on prevention, law enforcement and intel sucking in 90% of all funds and very little going towards the actual preparedness "AFTER" another strike on our shores.

    I often come across as saying "send it all to the FDNY, this is not my goal. I only use the example out of knowledge of the area. Major cities throughout the nation and their suburbs face many of the same shortfalls.

    I have heard the candidates who agree and support them in hopes they will follow through and improve a new Federal Department which, I think, could better appropriate it's funding. Should those candidates fail to follow through, shame on me. If they do and improvements are made, and I mean improvements with teeth, than it's worth every effort.

  18. #58
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    Default Trickle down..

    When I vote for my represenative weather it is for president of the United States or of my local union, I gain certain rights. At my local union I gain the right to bitch about how the local is being run,my contract,my working condition and how our money is spent, if we has an unit(majority rules)say that we want our local to support a canidate that will look out for our best interest, has a group (majority rules) we tell the leaders of our local to convey that to the district. At the district meeting all the locals that are represented at that meeting vote to tell our state reps who to support. Fire Pac is a way for our union to advance our interest, but that in no way is a decree on who we should vote for ...we all have free will ....but when you are a member of a special interest group you give up your individuality for the sake and interest of the group(majority rules). At some point down the road my union will support someone I don't like and I'll be in the minority....why ? .... because (majority rules).

    P.S. Didn't G.W. win by majority?
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  19. #59
    MembersZone Subscriber swrr88's Avatar
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    "I am interested in why a fireman from Tennessee would support a President who is CLEARLY against your right to sit across from your employer to negotiate things like pay and benefits."


    I am a rare bird...I am not looking for all things from a President.I want him to handle one thing more than all else...security.

    If I want an issue handled at a local level then I need to go to my local and state leaders. I have better access, more of a relationship with them, and more chance of getting a long term solution.

    Any support from the Federal gov't is short term as priorities change and so does the party in control. Long term goals should be handled at the local level.

    We are facing a budget cut next year. Bush can't fix our local and state tax system that has us in these mess. He could give us a bunch of money but next year we will right back here again.

    The big thing these days is claiming Homeland Security and first line of defense any time a department wants something (not inlcuding the direct related 9-11 funding).

    The first line of defense is really those grunts in the sand and the mountains trying to kill the terrorists at their camps.

    Homeland security is here, too but it needs to focus on the global military first.

    If Kerry says he's going to focus on giving everyone else a bunch of money to get them to support him then he is taking his eye of the ball which is the War.
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  20. #60
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Ltmdepas3280, a question from me (who does not know how all the locals/national interact) about the PAC and Kerry. Was a poll taken from all the locals to let the national know which candidate to support, or do the locals hope the national picks someone who the national thinks is best? I'm curious. Lot of learning going on here.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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