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  1. #61
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    OK... Does ANYONE know Mr. Bush's plans for MY SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP. Again I see Mr. Kerry's plan but no plans for First Responders.
    As a First Responder to both World Trade Center Terrorism Indents, I know FDNY was promised MONEY by the Federal Government to BOOST our (Americas) WAR on TERROR. Yes, we got some to rebuild but far less then we were promised by Mr. Bush. So FDNY took money out of it's budget which runs both Fire and EMS to fight the WAR. The money Mr. Bush said was coming is not here and we close firehouses and find our self scraping for money to train our members for the WAR. We are still short on funds because New York is still the number one target and it seems like Mr. Bush does not care. Please someone. What is Mr. Bush plan for First Responders.
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 02-25-2004 at 02:14 PM.
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  2. #62
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    The first line of defense is really those grunts in the sand and the mountains trying to kill the terrorists at their camps.
    swrr88, your point is well taken. The problem is that most of our attention is focused in Iraq,not at capturing those who carried out terrorist attacks against us.

    This has been hashed out many times on the forums. Some argue that the fire service has no role homeland DEFENSE.

    The fact is FDNY and other departments will be called on to deal with the result of a terror attack. It isn't like it hasn't happened before.

    We were targeted as a NATION not as a state or municipality. The fedderal government absolutely has a responsibility to foot the bill for the defense of the NATION.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  3. #63
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Posted by swrrr88
    The first line of defense is really those grunts in the sand and the mountains trying to kill the terrorists at their camps
    And just how many of those grunts are guardsmen and reservists who are firefighters and cops? My FD has sent two of our firefighters to military duty... one of them is still repairing the C-5's that bring the troops their equipment and unfortunately fly the bodies of our brave soldiers that were KIA home. The Fire Chief in Ashland, MA is a guardsman and is on a 1 year depolyment to Iraq, Ashland's Police Chief just got back from Iraq.

    While our Brothers and Sisters serve on the front lines, we are the ones who have to deal with the aftermath of any terrorist act. I dread the day that Al Qaeda convinces the children of Arabic descent to become pawns in their war as suicide bombers here in the US.[/b]
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  4. #64
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    Bones : We have meetings within our district and any local that is there carries the vote of there membership to the meeting. If my local tells my represenative to vote a certain way...that rep had better vote that way or we will vote him out, by the same token we expect the rep to bring back all information to the local so that we can make an informed decision, the information flows both ways . We are a small group so the accountabilty factor is greater than a larger local...but I would be willing to bet that they have committees that make recomendation to the membership and that becomes there accountabilty. The IAFF PAC monies comes from individuals(Union members) and not from the local coffers (because of election and lobbying laws)but we make the decisions has to where the money is spent.
    Last edited by Ltmdepas3280; 02-25-2004 at 04:53 PM.
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  5. #65
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default If our President is so concerned about security..

    Why is he so worried about an amendment to the Constitution banning gay marriages? Are gay people threatening yours and mines security? I know most of us probably havent given it much thought. It dosent effect me in the least. He should be worried about reducing the deficit and drain of manufacturing jobs here at home. But he is going to try and appease the far-right of the GOP. I havent made up my mind if there should be such a thing as "gay marriage" ..But I also know that our President has bigger fish to fry then worrying about trying to ammend the constitution banning it. Can anyone say STATES RIGHTS?
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  6. #66
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    The first line of defense is really those grunts in the sand and the mountains trying to kill the terrorists at their camps
    I agree 100%. But for the sake of this argument, the Department of Defense takes care of the soldiers and the department of Homeland Security sees that the citizens on our shores are protected...or should.
    Last edited by E229Lt; 02-25-2004 at 06:38 PM.

  7. #67
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    Why is he so worried about an amendment to the Constitution banning gay marriages?
    Must be something in the Bible driving him on this one, I know it's not Arnie.

  8. #68
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    ..But I also know that our President has bigger fish to fry then worrying about trying to ammend the constitution banning it. Can anyone say STATES RIGHTS?
    Actually, Dubya can say STATES RIGHTS.

    On 2/15/00, Bush said about gay marriage, "The state can do what they want to."

    Also, on 4/21/00 he said, "It's the right of the state to make that decision" on gay marriage, and on 5/2/00 he said gay marriage is "going to be up for cities and states to make those decisions."

    On 10/5/00 Cheney echoed Bush saying, "I think the fact of the matter, of course, is [same-sex marriage] is regulated by the states. I think different states are likely to come to different conclusions and that's appropriate. I don't think there should necessarily be a federal policy in this area."

    Of course the election was four years away when those statements were made.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  9. #69
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Just my point Duff. It's "States Rights" when its convienient.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  10. #70
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    You said it MIKEY. It't election time, time to kiss up to his base. Of course his base would have preferred he not reduce revenues while spending like a drunken sailor on shore leave.

    Now back to FIREPAC.....
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  11. #71
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Appeasing the base IS politics.
    You ar right C-Buff. The thing is, Bush's spending habits of late certainly don't appeal to his base. His original stance on Gay marraige and civil unions didn't appeal to his base.

    John Kerry, who you rightly (no pun intended) say is trying to appeal to his base, has a solid, consistent record as it pertains to the IAFF's causes. Did the IAFF jump on board early, sure. I was surprised myself.

    A lot of people jumped on board with Bush right after 9/11. They arent all on board now as evidenced by the drop in his approval rationg. Why, because of doubts about his motives for war and his spending in the face of a half billion dollar deficit, while reducing revenues no less.

    Can you say "Mission Accomplished"?

    We may yet see him in his flight suit with that banner behind him in a campaign commercial, just not his campaign commercial.
    Last edited by Duffman; 02-26-2004 at 06:38 AM.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

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  12. #72
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Ha ha ..You dont think I dont know EVERYTHING is politics? I dont see where I am showing "contempt". I recognize the hypocrisy on both sides of the fence. I said it before and I will say it again. The far right wants less government when they feel like it. When States "go along" with their agenda. If you think I am some type of "left wing nut" CB you couldnt ba farther from the truth. But I am not ready to replace GWB's flight wings with amgel wings just yet.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

  13. #73
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Ltmdepas3280, thanks for the info.

    I sure would hate for President Bush to do nothing but worrying about 1 thing at a time. I would hope he (or any other person) would be capable of handling quite a few things at once. Some make bigger headlines than others, but I'll bet there is a lot more going on. Call me what you want, but I agree with him. Marriage should be between a man and woman. That's just the way I feel.


    Do I have this right? You (as an IAFF member) choose whether or not to contribute to PAC. You can have a say in who IAFF will support, although it's mostly by a majority rule. If you don't like who they end up supporting, you can stop contributing to PAC. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Although, I can see where an IAFF member who was in the minority on selecting who to support, could get upset to see the IAFF backing another choice. Thanks again guys.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  14. #74
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    This has been an excellent discussion.

    I can understand a person having a problem with who their union endorses. What I don't understand is why some people get so offended by having the union sending them campaign letters etc.

    I too have encountered FIREPAC contributors who get ticked off when they recieve fliers in the mail. I don't get it. FIREPAC is explained very well by the IAFF. You don't wind up contributing without knowing what you are contributing to. FIREPAC contributers should expect, no, demand they recieve information from those candidates that are receiving their money.

    Those members who don't contribute to FIREPAC should expect information as well. By sending the information the IAFF is telling you who they support and why. They are being fair, in my opinion, by informing their members.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  15. #75
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    Topic:FirePac and Kerry...anyone else sick of it?
    FIREPAC:FIREPAC is the IAFFís political action committee (PAC). It is an integral part of the IAFF's efforts to promote the legislative and political interests of all professional fire fighters and paramedics. FIREPACís mission is to educate Members of Congress about issues important to fire fighters and emergency medical personnel and elect candidates to office that support those issues.

    As a federally registered PAC, FIREPAC must rely solely on personal, voluntary contributions from IAFF members, spouses and family members. Federal election law prohibits the use of union dues money to support federal candidates.

    So what this is saying if you don't like it don't contribute.

    REMEMBER WE THE IAFF ARE MEMBERS OF A SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP...YES THE EVIL PAC... YES, THE IAFF IS PUSHING OUR FIREFIGHTERS INTERESTS... IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT GET INVOLVED WITH THE IAFF AND CHANGE IT... YOU CAN STILL VOTE THE WAY YOU LIKE.

    By the way does anyone know what Mr. Bush's plan is for our SPECIAL INTEREST?
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 02-26-2004 at 09:15 AM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

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    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  16. #76
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    swrr88 you made it clear your out of FirePac and that's OK and Your decision. But please remember FirePac supports all candidates that support us.
    Now if or when Mr. Kerry wins or loses our message got out. I said it earlier, I don't agree with the IAFF all the time. But early on in my career I got involved with my Union. I have been a Delegate for over 11 year now. I also said earlier I NEVER voted for a Democrat. But our message about helping Firefighters is on the table on a National platform. New York closed Firehouses down because we HAD to spend money on the WAR on TERROR. Mr. Kerry bought that point out. Mr. Bush forgot us.
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 02-26-2004 at 11:22 AM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  17. #77
    MembersZone Subscriber swrr88's Avatar
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    From Firefightersforkerry.org..."John Kerry has supported the IAFF's FIRE Act, which provides grants directly from the federal governments to local fire departments... John Kerry's initiative for homeland security would supplement law enforcement officers with the National Guard, involving them in homeland security in case of a terrorist event. Americorps funding would be doubled so that its' mission will include assisting with medical response and community planning..."

    Fire ACT is functioning under President Bush and gives millions out every year. The National Guard is always considered a supplement to the police in times of emergency and are actually directed from the States anyway. Americorps has absolutely nothing to do with emergency response but is a public works program that the democrats love. Doubling the money of a group that will make very little real impact isn't ground breaking.

    "...John Kerry's plan will immediately clear out the backlog of requests from local fire departments for training and equipment they so desperately need to do their job as homeland defenders. Further, the Department of Homeland Defense would be required to work with metropolitan areas to formulate basic standards of response for chemical, biological and other catastrophic attacks...."

    HE personally will clear out the backlog? The department he takes over will be the same organization that is backlogged now. Its like a governor saying he is going to make the DMV less congested. How exactly do you do that? Same amount of people dealing with the same amount of work...just say you will and it counts. Also, the Homeland Defense is already working with metro governments. You may not think they have done enough but they are. Remember that every city thinks they deserve more time and money. So what's new about that?

    "...John Kerry believes that technology needs to play a major role in homeland defense. His plan would provide fire fighters radios with the interoperability functionality that they need to better coordinate their emergency response, and that investment needs to be made so that critical communication is made easier..."

    Good one. An easy target because of some high profile failures especially on 9/11. But is he saying the federal gov't is going to buy every city radios? They are going to design, select, and pay for all fire fighters' radios in America? Anyone believe that one? All the mayors, councils, and states are going to let Washington tell them what and how much they have to spend on radios? Oh, maybe they will make a recommendation and some grants...sort of like...now.

    A real ground breaking, earth shaking Homeland defense plan he has there. A whole lot of...of...of what? Sounds good though.

    "...(proposes)a program to put 100,000 new fire fighters on the job. This plan is similar to the successful "COPS" program for police officers... The funds will come directly from the federal government, so they will be less likely to become tangled in government bureaucracy..."

    How do you afford such a cost without raising taxes since you also promised everyone radios, health insurance to the majority of americans, reimbusement of health care costs to companies, tax credit for college tuition, tax credits to keep employees, more homeland defense, and oh yea...the war. "roll back the Bush tax cut only on the wealthest 1%"....hope we have a lot of wealthy people.

    Funds directly from the Fed to reduce bureaucracy? Is the same Fed you just said is backlogged with request for homeland defense funds? Must be a different Fed...one that's not already full of bureaucracy.


    John Kerry is the working man's man. That's why in December he made a speech saying that out sourcing (that evil term) in some respects is good for America...just like he trashed Bush for...and that anyone who says they can stop it is lying....I guess he's been lying then.

    He now says he will take away tax breaks from companies that leave but even democratic legal people say that's unlikely and their own business people say would do little good plus you can't force them to stay. He even said he would push to force companies to pay people in other countries more, again the democrats own legal people say that's not possible since we don't make their laws for them.

    Now his plan is to make companies going overseas give their employees 3 months notice. WOW! Another great plan to save the economy...90 days notice. Don't be honest and say the truth that is as long as it cost 3-4 times more money to make something here than elsewhere (with or without NAFTA) companies who have to make a profit will leave. Don't be honest and say you can't have your cake and eat it, too. You want high pay? You wany lots of benefits? You want lots of rules and regulations to make our lives better at work? Well, when times are tough then that company is outta here because it can't survive otherwise. Instead tell everyone in the rustbelt that you are going to fix the evils of the Bush administration even though you know you can't. All you can do is hope the economy gets stronger and pushes up demand which will help.
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  18. #78
    MembersZone Subscriber swrr88's Avatar
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    More Kerry the working man's man who can be trusted...Washingtonpost just a day or so ago..."...If he becomes president, Kerry said, "Our government won't provide a single reward for shipping our jobs overseas or exploiting the tax code to go to Bermuda to avoid paying taxes while sticking the American people with the bill."


    Washington Post today..."Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, frequently calls companies and chief executives "Benedict Arnolds" if they move jobs and operations overseas to avoid paying U.S. taxes.

    But Kerry has accepted money and fundraising assistance from top executives at companies that fit the candidate's description of a notorious traitor of the American Revolution.

    Executives and employees at such companies have contributed more than $140,000 to Kerry's presidential campaign, a review of his donor records shows. Additionally, two of Kerry's biggest fundraisers, who together have raised more than $400,000 for the candidate, are top executives at investment firms that helped set up companies in the world's best-known offshore tax havens, federal records show..."


    Washignton Post..."On Monday, Kerry was asked why two of his biggest fundraisers were involved with "Benedict Arnold" companies. "If they have done that, it's not to my knowledge and I would oppose it," Kerry told a New York television station. "I think it's wrong to do [it] solely to avoid taxes."

    Then he sought to clarify his position: "What I've said is not that people don't have the right to go overseas and form a company if they want to avoid the tax. I don't believe the American taxpayer ought to be giving them a benefit. That's what I object to. I don't object to global commerce. I don't object to companies deciding they want to compete somewhere else.''


    "...According to federal election records, Kerry has received $119,285 from donors employed at what Citizen Works describes as the "25 Fortune 500 Corporations With the Most Offshore Tax-Haven Subsidiaries." The list does not include nearly all of the companies that shave their tax bill by moving jobs and operations overseas, so Kerry has actually raised substantially more from firms qualifying as "Benedict Arnolds."


    Kerry is touring the Rust Belt trashing Bush for helping the same companies he, too, is taking money from. Bush has more donations than Kerry but hasn't been screaming how evil these companies are, and Edwards has much, much less money from any of them...even though he isn't yelling all across the nation about the evil corporations either.
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  19. #79
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    swrr88 is President Bush bringing up my SPECIAL INTERESTS on a National platform? Mr. Kerry is...

    I don't care about the other issues...YET. I'm not pulling the handle down today...No, not till November. So in the mean time what about my SPECIAL INTEREST? Where do FireFighters fit in to Mr. Bush's plan's on a National level?
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 02-26-2004 at 06:05 PM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  20. #80
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    swrr88, you have demonstrated your ability to knock Kerry. What I haven't heard about is who you think the IAFF should have endorsed instead, and why. Now, on to your last posts.

    Fire ACT is functioning under President Bush and gives millions out every year.
    President Bush, in his first budget proposal as president, intended to eliminate it all together. The IAFF, NVFC, and IAFC all lobbied for it. Bush's good friend, Joe Albough [sp] then head of FEMA, went to bat and saved it. Bush has never fully funded it however. His 2005 budget calls for reducing it by 250 million.
    Americorps has absolutely nothing to do with emergency response but is a public works program that the democrats love. Doubling the money of a group that will make very little real impact isn't ground breaking.
    Perhaps you didn't read carefully enough. Doubling Americorps will add assisting with medical response to its duties. It could have a huge impact.
    How do you afford such a cost without raising taxes since you also promised everyone radios, health insurance to the majority of americans, reimbusement of health care costs to companies, tax credit for college tuition, tax credits to keep employees, more homeland defense, and oh yea...the war. "roll back the Bush tax cut only on the wealthest 1%"....hope we have a lot of wealthy people.
    It is called the SAFER Act. It has already been signed into Law by Bush. The trick is, it still has to pass appropriations in a republican controlled congress. There is no gaurantee that it will come to fruition.
    You want high pay? You wany lots of benefits? You want lots of rules and regulations to make our lives better at work? Well, when times are tough then that company is outta here because it can't survive otherwise.
    Can't survive what? Can't survive without not paying taxes?
    Can't survive without giving multi million dollar bonuses to CEO's who are already stealing from the company? Give me a break. These companies are not struggling to survive.
    All you can do is hope the economy gets stronger and pushes up demand which will help.
    Do you think that happens in a vacuum? The government doesn't influence it at all?
    Kerry is touring the Rust Belt trashing Bush for helping the same companies he, too, is taking money from. Bush has more donations than Kerry but hasn't been screaming how evil these companies are, and Edwards has much, much less money from any of them...even though he isn't yelling all across the nation about the evil corporations either.
    He took their money. No doubt. The question is will he do what he said he would do. That is yet to be seen. He may even return the money. Wether he does or not, what is important is what he does about the issue if elected. Time will tell.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

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