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  1. #1
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    Default FirePac and Kerry...anyone else sick of it?

    I am inviting a lot of upset responses, but good. Its all part of the process.

    I am paying member of the IAFF and up to now have been a member of FirePac. Not anymore.

    I am ending my Fire Pac contributions because of the endorsement of Kerry and all of the endless amounts of $##@ the union continues to send to my house for the Kerry camp.

    My reasons for disliking Kerry are many. The main reason for me changing my Fire Pac standing is the obvious lie of claiming to not be taking large amounts of money from "special interests" then personally seeing tons of Fire Pac funded campaign materials for the senator. Its almost disgusting seeing the IAFF president behind him at every stop and the constant mailings...all the time stating he doesn't accept "PAC" money. Ironic considering that the Firefighters for Kerry signs flying at his stops say in small print...."paid for by Fire PAC"

    Here is a man who voted for NAFTA until the AFL/CIOs courted him...who voted for no child left behind until the teachers union courted him...who voted for the Patriot act until the ACLU courted him...who voted for the IRAQ conflict until the peace movement courted him. A man who was anti defense, anti intelligence, and a veteran basher when he returned from Vietnam...all until he needed to look "strong" on defense. Now he proudly shows the medals he once disgraced.

    Its all big business. No side is really better than the other when it comes to money. BUT...I am not going to be part of the problem anymore.
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  2. #2
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    Exclamation

    Every politician is the same... local, county, state or federal, democrat, republican or fringe lunatic. It's your choice to support firepac or not.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  3. #3
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    There is another, more broad point of interest here.

    There is a new law on the federal books, I believe related to the campaign finance reform bill, or part of it anyway.

    It allows the IRS to delve into union's contributions to political candidates using union funds, and not their PACs. Of course the sneaky, useless, self serving politicians (see Capt Gonzo's post) have delayed implementation of that law until next years election.

    Anyhow, It allows for further auditing of union finances to determine if union dues are being used to pay for contributions to the politicians. This is highly illegal and in violation of Federal Law. It was brought on heavily by the techers unions who repeatedly report no money contributions to political campaigns, which we all know was a crock. It applies to all unions though adn from my radical right wing conspiracy cohorts I have heard that many unions are quite afraid of this new law and its repurcussions.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  4. #4
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    Whether we like it or not "WE" The IAFF members are part of a "SPECIAL INTEREST." "MEMBERS of THE EVIL PAC" The IAFF is acting in our best interest. Let's face it the Bush administration has not been very kind to Firefighters issues. This is still America and you can still vote the way you want. You can also get involved in the IAFF.

    THE IAFF


    Since our union boldly endorsed Senator John Kerry for President late last year, the IAFF and I have been on a crusade to educate, convince and motivate our members to support a man that has stood tall for professional fire fighters for over twenty years.

    He has led under fire in the deltas of Vietnam and fought courageously for the rights of workingmen and women on the floor of the United States Senate. And, in the nation’s first Presidential contest, the citizens of Iowa turned out for John Kerry.

    While the pundits and many other unions wrote John Kerry off, we knew that his heroism, vision and leadership would convince middle America that John Kerry is the man to win back the White House. He is committed to returning prosperity at home by creating real jobs and assuring comprehensive health coverage to all Americans while enacting a tax policy that offers relief to the forgotten majority, but ensures that the very wealthy and corporations pay there fair share. He has the wisdom and knowledge to fashion a foreign policy that protects America’s security and brings the troops home! He is the real deal.

    I’m proud that our brothers and sisters in Iowa took the lead. They got involved and they helped John Kerry win big in the Iowa Caucuses. They worked the phones, put up yard signs, lobbied their neighbors and turned out on a cold--sub-zero night to propel Kerry to victory.

    Now, it’s up to you. It’s up to our members in New Hampshire and the other states with early primaries. Fire Fighters need to be visible. We need to be involved and we need to be active. Your future is worth the investment. Having a true friend in the White House will mean that SAFER gets funded. It will guarantee that resources are allocated and used for more training and better equipment so that you can do your job more safely and effectively. And, it means that we will have an advocate for fire fighters and our issues like collective bargaining, labor law reform, and other issues impacting you paycheck.

    I thank the Fire Fighters in Iowa for a job well done. The tone has been set and I challenge each of you to follow their example. Get involved and help the Fire Fighters friend, John Kerry, win the Democratic nomination and become the next President f the United States.

    Together, we will make the difference.

    Harold Schaitberger
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  5. #5
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    Default What is FIRE PAC???

    How is My Contribution Used?

    Your FIREPAC contribution allows the IAFF to educate members of Congress about issues important to your profession as fire fighters and emergency medical personnel and elect candidates to office that support those issues.

    During the 2001-2002 election cycle, FIREPAC contributed more than $1.8 million to over 300 pro-IAFF candidates running for Congress, in both U.S. Senate and House of Representatives races across the country. In the end, 87% of FIREPAC-supported House candidates and 50% of the FIREPAC-backed Senate candidates were elected. FIREPAC’s overall winning percentage for the 1999-2000 election cycle was 84%.

    While many candidates solicit FIREPAC contributions, not all are successful in receiving one. To be eligible to receive a FIREPAC contribution, candidates must meet specific criteria. For incumbents, FIREPAC reviews voting records on IAFF issues, weighs the difficulty of the race and surveys the level of participation IAFF locals have in the campaign. Challengers must complete a candidate questionnaire detailing their positions on a number of IAFF legislative issues. FIREPAC also assesses polling data, the candidate’s viability, the level of support from IAFF locals, and if applicable, voting records on IAFF issues at the local level.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  6. #6
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    And I reiterate. I don't care what the union says.

    What SWRR88 said was that he did not like his money going to support a candidate that he does not support.

    And once again I reiterate my distaste for the union thinking that I am stupid enough to support a candidate for one reason, one part of my life, my job. I have to worry about other things in life, like my personal freedom, the moral decay in America, my national security and defense, the flood of illegal immigrants, the exploding cost of living, the government wishing to confiscate my money, my firearms, and let's not forget the element that wants abortion to be available to all women regradless of age or parental consent.

    Excuse me if I am intelligent enough to think that one issue is not the deciding factor in my decision for the leadership of this great country.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  7. #7
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    There are two major problems with the AFL-CIO and the IAFF supporting Kerry and there is also one major problem with the Kerry campaign's favorite line....no special interests.

    The problem with the unions supporting Kerry is the man voted for NAFTA and No child left behind which the teacher unions hate.

    Odd that they would file in behind a man that supported laws they constantly say are wrong. He says now that NAFTA wasn't enforced properly, but come on....how different did he expect things to be? I am not saying there is anything wrong with NAFTA...that's not the issue. Here is a man who is trashing Bush and saying he is for the working man...AND he voted for the very bill that is at the source of his issue. Here is a man who states he wants to save education from Bush but again...he voted for the very bill that is the source of the issue. A man who states the War in Iraq is wrong but again voted for the very bill that is at the source of it all.

    Sure, you can say Bush changed things after the fact...maybe once but when that's your standard answer to every question that's a problem. He voted with the President with every one of those bills and now trashes the president for them.

    Again, "special interests"...we are a special interest. That's my point...to constantly say you don't take money from PACs but then surround yourself with PACs that don't really give you money directly...its sleezy. Don't be the white knight when you are just as dirty as the rest of us.


    The IAFF says he is the fire fighter's man. What's he going to do for us? (Besides raise my taxes)
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  8. #8
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    Sorry to hear you will no longer support FIREPAC. I will be taking your place however. We need FIREPAC. Benefits obtained as a direct result of FIREPAC and the hard work of the IAFF staff in DC will not suffer.

    You are right not to donate if you do not support the platform. I have donated much time to the IAFF and now I will put my money where my clock has been.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  9. #9
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    February 18, 2004





    International Fire Fighter
    1750 New York Ave, N.W.

    Washington, D.C. 20006







    Dear President Schaitberger & Union Members,





    I have been a Local member for 18 years (L-36) here in our Nations Capital and over the years I have received numerous publications from the International at election time. The information disseminated to the membership echo’s the same message from past election campaigns; “Vote Democrat, and if you don’t the nations professional fire fighters are in great jeopardy.” Scare tactics are a consistent approach for the IAFF come election time. This seems to be the shared methodology of the Teamsters and Democrat Party. Unfortunately these tactics influence members. I believe I speak for a large number of members in that the heavily one-sided International is again trying to align its membership into believing that the Democrat nominee is the only candidate who supports professional fire fighters. Class envy is another tool which is used to promulgate their agenda. What better way to gain a following than to convince one class of people that another is disregarding them.



    The International Association of Firefighters never asked my point of view on what I thought of John Forbes Kerry. The Internationals predictable endorsement of a Democrat does not surprise this union member. Matter of fact I can’t recall the last time the IAFF endorsed a non democrat candidate. It humors me to read what I and other union members regard as the IAFF propaganda magazine. Phrases such as “The plummeting economic situation”, “Republican fat cats” “The Bush tax cuts for the rich” litter its pages. The scary thing is most members buy into this one sided journalism. If the International looked a bit closer at their candidate they would see a Senator that has flip flopped on several issues including his stance on the Iraq War. And speaking of war, he likes to blow his own horn about his service in Vietnam which raises suspicion with me. Could this perhaps infer a candidate that lacks a political core, who is guided by political convenience and is sanctimonious about his combat service? With these questions I felt compelled to research further Senator John Forbes Kerry’s distinguished military record. I would like to share with you 5 interesting points.



    1. On numerous occasions this year, Kerry cited his distinguished war record as a significant factor in who should be the Presidential nominee. As a naval officer, Kerry earned the Silver Star, the Bronze Star with combat V, and three Purple Hearts for his service on a gunboat patrolling the Mekong. While only being in Vietnam a short time, Kerry used an obscure Navy regulation to leave Vietnam and his crew before completing his tour of duty. After returning home, he quit the Navy early and participated in the so-called Winter Soldier Investigation where his fellow protesters accused his fellow GIs of war crimes, this while his crew was still in country dodging communist bullets. That obscure Navy regulation that Kerry himself initiated of which allowed him to leave Vietnam was because he was wounded 3 times. All three wounds were very minor, the most severe of the 3 removed him from service for only 2 days, and the other 2 injuries were so minor that it didn't warrant him leaving service at all.



    2. Kerry gained national attention in April 1971, when he testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, then chaired by Sen. J. William Fulbright (D-AR), who led opposition in the Congress against U.S. participation in the war. During the course of his testimony, Kerry stated that the United States had a definite obligation to make extensive economic reparations to the people of Vietnam. Kerry's testimony, it should be noted, occurred while some of his fellow Vietnam veterans were known by the world to be enduring terrible suffering as prisoners of war in North Vietnamese prisons. Kerry was a supporter of the "People's Peace Treaty," a supposed "people's" declaration to end the war, reportedly drawn up in communist East Germany. It included nine points, all of which were taken from Viet Cong peace proposals at the Paris peace talks as conditions for ending the war. One of the provisions stated: "The Vietnamese pledge that as soon as the U.S. government publicly sets a date for total withdrawal from Vietnam, they will enter discussion to secure the release of all American prisoners, including pilots captured while bombing North Vietnam. To cut right to the chase had the United States negotiators adopted the peace treaty favored by Kerry and the Viet Cong, the United States would have totally lost all leverage to get the communists to release any POWs captured during the war years.



    3. Another interesting fact about Kerry that is seldom explained is the incident that involved him supposable throwing his medals onto the Capital steps. What Kerry or his supporters never mentioned was that the medals he so gloriously tossed were not his own. The 1988 issue of Current Biography Yearbook explained: " The ones he had discarded were not his own but had belonged to another veteran who asked him to make the gesture for him.” When a 'Washington Post' reporter asked Kerry about the incident, he said: “They're my medals. I'll do what I want with them. And there shouldn't be any expectations about them.” Kerry's medals have reappeared, today hanging in his Senate office, now that it is "politically correct" for a U.S. Senator to be portrayed as a Vietnam War hero. A man that some would conclude would lie to promulgate is own personal gain.





    4. On April 2, 2003 Army Spc. Mathew G. Boule of Dracut Massachusetts was the States first soldier killed in Iraq. One would think that the Senator of Specialist Boule's home State would have been in attendance of this American Hero's funeral...Kerry, the decorated veteran was in Arizona fundraising and campaigning the very hour Specialist Boule was being buried.



    These facts have not been an issue to date and supporters of the Kerry campaign refuse to look behind the glory of a few Medals and examine the substantial evidence that brings Kerry’s integrity into question. Instead Kerry and his supporters continue to perpetuate his Vietnam record as the principle sound board of his campaign. John Forbes Kerry has demonstrated to this union member that his past is a portrayal of an opportunistic man that is willing to exploit a brief combat experience for the sake of personal gain. Whether it’s the Vietnam War or the Iraq war, it’s one thing to oppose a war, its criminal to actively support your countries enemies while the war is going on.



    I petition my brothers and sisters that come election time you vote smart. Don’t be fooled by a partisan union. Research the truth and decide which candidate will benefit you, the fire fighter, and your family. God Bless!



    Oh, and my 5th point, John Kerry has voted 96% of the time with Liberal Democrat Ted Kennedy. That’s enough in itself to convince this brother not to vote for the IAFF’s candidate.



    Fraternally yours, (but independent thinker)

    shawdcfdE6

    “Firefighters Not For Kerry”

  10. #10
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    I want to say how much I agree with DaSharkie and shawdcfdE6 on their views.

    Every election, local-state-national, I am TOLD what would be best for me as an IAFF member as if I am too stupid to decide for myself what's best.

    Just as its been shown here...unions don't speak for all their members even when they try. Executive committees at the local and international offices "decide" what they want and expect the guys to follow along. You can ask Howard Dean, Dick Gephardt, and even Al Gore about how much good big union endorsements did for their campaign.

    More and more they are having less impact on the outcome of elections. I believe its because these people aren't even picked by the actual membership just selected from "above". Most members see these selections as totally political $^#$ along set party lines and then make their own choices at the polls.

    Public Safety (police-fire-ems) is basically a local game. Sure there are Federal grants and rules, but your benefits and pay are coming right down the road at city hall. Grants that give extra money and positions are never long term and within a short few years its your local gov't picking up the tab. For that matter, your state government has a bigger impact with its support of its cities. Most of the problem across the country with cities and money is a result of decreases in money from state gov't.

    Is Kerry going to suddenly change my job? Give me a raise? Change my retirement? No. Nope. Not a bit. Will he get the mayor of my city to suddenly change how we work out our agreements? No. Will he change state law here regarding unions and cities? No. Will he make up the local shortfall in the budget that will cause us to cut spending next year? No. Will he stand next to the IAFF and sign into law something that may never have a direct impact on my day to day job...Yes, Absolutely, no question about it.

    Will he raise my taxes? Most definitely. "roll back the Bush tax cuts on the rich"...I am not rich and every cut has meant money in my pocket. Will he hurt defense? Since he has made a career of doing that I would say yes he will. Will he improve the economy? No...no president has that much power. Its a cycle and will come around at its own pace. Bush didn't create the stock market bust that was building at the end of Clinton and he didn't create 9/11. Sure we have had some rough times but we're darn lucky to be where we are considering what happened the last few years.

    I am a paramedic for a fire department so that's a big part of my life. But I am an American with a family...that's bigger part of my life. The IAFF needs to realize we are more than fire fighters or paramedics. We vote based on more than one issue and just because someone says he'll kiss our $$&'s doesn't mean he'll keep us safe or stand for what we believe.
    " The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." - Samuel Johnson

  11. #11
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    Default Bush Bashing....

    Most of the economic hardships that are placed upon Fire Departments Nation wide are a result of state and local governments mismanaging funds and or over spending in the wrong areas. Then they cry poor mouth to Uncle Sam. That reminds me of an old adage that a wise man shared with me many moons ago,
    "Uncle Sam is your Uncle...not your daddy..."

  12. #12
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    I would ask this of all those who are so angry with the IAFF. Did you ever consider getting out, or attempting to bring change, especially on the local level.

    I hear lots of people bashing the executive boards either at the local, state or national level. If they don't represent their members then vote them out. You see the board is elected by the members.

    Either work for change or leave the union, anything else is at best apathetic, at worst hippocritical.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  13. #13
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    Those of us that pay dues to the IAFF are members of a "SPECIAL INTEREST." Please remember this.... If you don't like what OUR INTERNATIONAL is doing get involved. I don't agree all the time but I do get involved and ask questions. As far as Kerry goes I'm not a fan yet. But as an FDNY member Bush left us flat. I have never voted Democrat in my life but now I have to think about my lively hood. Remember the IAFF is you and me, NOT THEM. In November you can still pull the lever the way you want.


    BROTHERS and SISTERS MOVE IN OR STEP ASIDE!!!
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  14. #14
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    But as an FDNY member Bush left us flat.
    E40FDNYL35: First of all, I respect your posts in these forums and I'm by no means trying to make this anything but a request for information.

    But, I'd be interested in learning more of your opinions or facts about the statement you made about Pres. Bush. I should tell you that I am not an IAFF member as I work full time as a FF/EMT for a privately owned chemical company that is non-union. I am also a registered Republican and a supporter of Pres. Bush. I'm only wanting to understand where your statement came from.

    Respectfully,
    Lt. D. Gordon
    Greendale Fire Department
    Greendale, IN

  15. #15
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    I think President Bush did a good job in Afghanistan and Iraq. I support him 100% on the WAR on Terror. On 9-11-2001, our nation was confronted by a new kind of war. If today a 9-11-2001 attack were to happened in New York we would not be fully prepared. And yes, you would say NOBODY would be. But I feel firefighters have inadequate resources in our job as front-line defenders. Fire Departments should receive the funds they need for equipment, training, and hiring new firefighters. President Bush policies left us FLAT. As a SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP we have a number of important issues that Bush has ignored. I feel President Bush doesn't understand the challenges we face as firefighters. He talks about homeland security, but he has failed to provide the resources we need to do our jobs safely and effectively. I also feel John Kerry because he's been a champion for IAFF issues over the years, such as SAFER staffing, collective bargaining, the FIRE Act, overtime and federal presumptive disability may help my SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP.Even if Kerry were to lose, I feel by him running brings up my SPECIAL INTEREST points.

    gordoffemt I respect your question but I don't expect you will understand. You are not an IAFF member. To my Brothers and Sisters, Bush did not give us the resources we need to protect the public. I have not decided who I will vote for in November yet. But I am getting involved because my SPECIAL INTEREST are important....that's my 2 cents
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 02-22-2004 at 08:03 AM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  16. #16
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    Default Just a note here....

    Originally posted by shawdcfdE6
    “Vote Democrat, and if you don’t the nations professional fire fighters are in great jeopardy.” Scare tactics are a consistent approach for the IAFF come election time. This seems to be the shared methodology of the Teamsters and Democrat Party....
    ....The Internationals predictable endorsement of a Democrat does not surprise this union member. Matter of fact I can’t recall the last time the IAFF endorsed a non democrat candidate.....
    From the IAFF...Nearly 90 percent of the 276 candidates the IAFF supported for U.S. House of Representatives--incumbents and challengers, Republicans and Democrats--won election.
    More than 75 percent of the 22 U.S. Senate candidates we backed from both parties also won election or reelection to office with the help of FIREPAC.
    And FIREPAC supported at least 44 IAFF members and several spouses who were elected or reelected to state and local offices across the nation.
    We have many friends in Congress from both parties, just as we have relationships with many Democratic and Republican governors, state legislators, and other influential politicians. In fact, the IAFF proudly supports more Republicans than any other labor union.
    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 02-22-2004 at 09:59 AM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  17. #17
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    E40FDNYL35:

    Thanks for the reply to my question. Please don't underestimate my ability to understand your concerns because I am not a union member. I fully respect what you're saying and I do understand how your department, as well as most others in the nation, are not fully prepared to handle another incident like we had on 9-11.


    However, I don't see where any candidate will follow through with the IAFF's interests, or anyone else's, for that matter. Once the candidate is elected, many of the special interest group's issues are no longer high priority. Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty in quickly forgetting about the folks who helped get them elected.

    I agree with the earlier post that stated most fire department problems are created and go unsolved at the local level. Until we get that part right, the White House will not come and save us.

    I will respectfully bow out of this conversation due to my non-union status. Thanks for letting me respond. Good luck to you and your picks in the '04 election.
    Lt. D. Gordon
    Greendale Fire Department
    Greendale, IN

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    “On 9-11-2001, our nation was confronted by a new kind of war. If today a 9-11-2001 attack were to happened in New York we would not be fully prepared.”

    What Fire Department on earth could be fully prepared for another 9-11? One thing I’ve learned from this line of work and that is something’s you can’t prepare for, tragedy happens and you deal with it. It all boils down to the courage and intestinal fortitude of the men doing the job.

    “To my Brothers and Sisters, Bush did not give us the resources we need to protect the public.”

    What resources? What did the city and or state of New York not give the FDNY to protect their public that Bush should have given? The problems that the FDNY encountered during 9-11, were they a result of something President Bush did or didn’t do during his 9 months in office? Your radio communications problem, was that a result of something President Bush did or didn’t do? A lot of the problems that Fire Departments encounter as swr88 and I stated earlier are a result of local and State governments misappropriating funds and poor management. I will cite an example from the IAFF themselves,

    “The entire state of Massachusetts has been in a state of financial crisis for the last few years. Who’s been taking the hit? IAFF locals and the firefighters and paramedics they represent….IAFF District 3 Vice President Mike Mullane and Massachusetts State President Bob McCarthy dug in their heels and came up with a plan to help many of these cities. Their solution came in the form of a reprieve in state pension legislation. Several years ago, it was discovered that many local governments were not paying out enough to pension funds. Many cities are using the money they would have used for pension fund compliance to put some of their laid off firefighters back on the job. Worcester Local 1009 got back 20 firefighters ect…. Mayor ED Clancy Jr. has been a long time opponent of the city’s IAFF affiliated, Local 739. He is refusing to use the newly available money to bring back any of city’s the 36 laid off firefighters.”

    This example demonstrates that the root of most of our problems lie from within and these problems are dealt with by or local unions with the help of the IAFF. Most of our problems are a result of city administrators and or bean counters that are hired into the city to find ways to cut. I can speak first hand concerning Washington DC regarding a poorly managed contract that chose the wrong or antiquated communication system that didn’t implement enough radio towers, projects that encompass firefighting operations but are undertaken and run by civilian’s contractors. The purchasing of another city’s antiquated payroll program, the list goes on.

    As I stated before, Uncle Sam is your Uncle, not your daddy. I look to my Federal Government for military protection 1st and foremost, what’s left over that can be distributed to the masses for Fire/EMS is all the better. The DCFD has received a good amount since 9-11, in equipment and training. I’m not a union basher; I’m fortunate for my local 36 and appreciate their stance at election time. They understand their local is made up of a diverse group that chooses to select a Presidential candidate based on what’s good for them the Firefighter and their family.

    It’s my firm belief that one should choose a candidate based on the integrity and character traits that that individual possesses and not on the premise of what can he do for me syndrome. It’s very simple, Kerry has demonstrated to me by the example of his actions since his 4 month tour in Vietnam that he lacks integrity and virtue. One of the most basic truths in life, “What you are begets what you do.” Character does matter….
    Massachusetts

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    shawdcfdE6 it's been over 2 years since 9-11-01 New York City has closed 6 firehouses and taken the 5th man off some Engines. FDNY has the same budget which had to replace and buy new over half it's equipment. Train over 1200 new probies and retrain it entire work force. We have numerous members still struggling with the after affects, and numerous members still on medical leave (which cost money). Firefighters coming up with new diseases every month or so and there is NO MONEY. If Terror is our New Home Front War the Federal Government better pony up. The Bush Administration turned it's back on FDNY. That how I feel and I am not the only one who feels this way in New York City.
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    Please go re-read this thread:
    http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/sho...threadid=51760

    To quote myself on 8/1/03:
    If all the firefighters in this country voted for the same candidates and issues every time we entered the booth. We would be a voting block that couldn't be ignored.

    When the politicians start thinking, "if I screw them, I'm out of a job" instead of, "Ah, they'll turnout for every job even if we give them nothing" then and only then, will we see some change.

  21. #21
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    Once again *sigh*

    Firefighting / EMS is only a part of my life, not even a majority of the time in my life. I have to worry about other issues in my life such as:

    increased axation at the local, county, state, and federal levels, candidates that support gun control, abortion, the death penalty, illegal immigration amnesty, national defense, health care, inflation, the rising cost of living, a decreasing standard of living, among other issues.

    I will not vote for anyone who stands on a posium and says I support firefighters. I have other issues in my life to worry about.

    While I respect what the guys and gals at NYOD, FDNY, and EMS have gone through, I do have to wonder where the money went. Did it go to the state, get pilfered there, then get pilfered at the City and not make it to the Fire Department? Here in Massachusetts our director of Public Safety was fired after it was learned that he took money from federal terrorism grants for himself and other money cannot be accounted for. I am not saying the money did not get there but Hillary and Rangel, and Schumer have been running around saying they have secured money for NYC. So where is it? Obviously some more money is needed, especially for the larger cities that pose greater targets like Boston, Denver, NYC, Miami, D.C., LA, San Fran. I do not necessarily understand why every single small fire department is screaming for terrorism funds. Most of the money by design goes to law enforcement to prevent further attacks. The remainder is for EMS and Fire to mitigate teh attacks.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    What did the city and or state of New York not give the FDNY to protect their public that Bush should have given? The problems that the FDNY encountered during 9-11, were they a result of something President Bush did or didn’t do during his 9 months in office? Your radio communications problem, was that a result of something President Bush did or didn’t do? A lot of the problems that Fire Departments encounter as swr88 and I stated earlier are a result of local and State governments misappropriating funds and poor management.
    And a lot of the problems continue, especially now when we are more aware of the shortfalls. From todays headlines:

    On Sept. 11, 2001, hundreds of New York City firefighters—the best-trained Fire Department in the world—learned to their horror that their radios didn’t work. As they attempted to save thousands of people trapped in those two mortally wounded towers, firefighters couldn’t communicate with each other. High-ranking officers in the north tower command post frantically tried to relay orders to companies in the stairwells, only to hear silence in reply.

    In the meantime, police officers in helicopters tried to warn their firefighter colleagues that the towers seemed in imminent danger of collapse. Their warnings went unheard—the police and fire communication systems were not coordinated.

    After the horror of 9/11, the city vowed to improve the Fire Department’s communications system. In fact, that promise was a long time coming—Fire Department personnel who were at the World Trade Center bombing in 1993 had complained about the faulty radio system, to no avail.

    The federal government recently undermined this urgent task by cutting a $54 million appropriation designed to improve emergency communications around the country. About $6 million was earmarked for New York.

    As 9/11 demonstrated, local emergency workers are on the front line of the war on terror. But the Bush administration apparently has little appreciation for the task assigned to firefighters, police officers and other emergency personnel. George W. Bush’s Department of Homeland Security—run by a rather undistinguished minion, Tom Ridge—cut the money designated for improved communications in an absurd exercise in cost-cutting.

    At a time of record budget deficits, the Bush administration is looking to save a few dollars by denying local governments the money they need to further enhance their ability to respond to terrorism. What could these people be thinking? The federal government is running a half-trillion dollar deficit; $6 million would be a drop in the bucket. Mr. Bush would not shortchange our troops in Iraq, but he is doing just that here at home.

    Luckily for New York, the Fire Department already has ironed out some of its communications problems. But that $6 million would have paid for even better communications systems and coordination.

    Senator Charles Schumer rightly denounced the White House’s priorities, saying that the federal government has "pulled the rug out from under our cops and firefighters."

    After 9/11, we know the importance of well-trained emergency workers. We cannot send these men and women into battle, however, without the best equipment. How unfortunate that the White House continues to underfund New York City to a mind-boggling degree.

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    In fact, that promise was a long time coming—Fire Department personnel who were at the World Trade Center bombing in 1993 had complained about the faulty radio system, to no avail.
    and your blaming Bush?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    E40FDNYL35,

    I think we are slowly drifting off into opposite directions. I attended several of the funerals and can only imagine the difficulty emotionally the guys are still going through. My prayers are still with you all. It seems there are two arguments among the IAFF, 1. Bush for some reason is responsible for the deficits around the nations Fire Departments. 2. He’s not doing enough to help. The dollar amount for FY 03 Homeland Security grant showed New York receiving $268 million dollars; this does not include targeted grants for the city of New York. I don’t know what FDNY got before 03 or what they are slated to receive in 04. You will not get an argument out of me that the Fire Department shouldn’t be at the top of any city’s budget list for receiving monies. There should be no compromises with regard to the fire and police budgets. My bitch is with local and state government politicians that don’t want to give up their own special interest programs in an effort to keep firehouses open. And also with a pro democrat union that wants to place blame on a republican President. All I’m saying is look close to home first before pointing your finger at the White House, and that’s regardless of who’s in there, Dem or Rep…

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    All I’m saying is look close to home first before pointing your finger at the White House
    With all due respect Ray, maybe some should look close to home before pointing their finger at Mars.

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