1. #1
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    Default I Need Some Help

    I need some help. Im a Lt. of a junior group and we been having troubles getting the other jrs. to quit there goofing off in public. And with them not paying attention in training weve done so much to try to get them to like we suspend um and stuff but they just dont stop. Its so bad they dont remember what we teach them sometimes 10 min. later. its ****ing me off when we need something done at a fire scene and they dont know how.

    Do you have any suggestions?

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    Sit down with them....Have a chat and say hey...Smarten up or stay the hell home because its a waste of both mine and your time if your gonna sit around and jack around...If they keep it up..Kick Em out..simple as that...

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    Have you warned them already?
    If yes then get rid of them. I believe there is time to goof around but if they are doing it non stop then they gotta go.

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    ive talked and talked all i can. me and the capt and other lt. have talked our brains out. i dont really want to get rid of them yet. they got tons of potential. i want to teach them. but i cant take the gofing off ALL the time. its said the only jrs. that the sr.s trust is us officers and we cant get the others to follow suit. weve been kicking so many out lately im getting sick of sitting down with the executive board and presenting my case on why to kick um out or to suspend um.

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    Angry

    Iíve dealt with the same thing. I think it is usually a motivation problem. Can you suspend them from Ďfuní activities (competitions, runs, duty calls)?

    So why are they motivated enough to show up but not when its time to get down to business? I have no idea. Iíve been trying to figure it out myself but Iím still left scratching my noggin.

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    i can sympothize with you as i was the junior lt. for the last term at one of my fire companies...some of the major issues i have noticed is simply because everyone wants to prove themselves and by slacking off and not paying attention, in their own way they are saying, "heck, i know this already, this is borring, why do i have to listen to this.?"

    and i have personally felt this way myself on more than one occasion...the major problem with the junior fire programs is the lack of respect by senior members...just because your a "junior" you don't get much, if any respect, from senior members...a major part of the fire service is brotherhood and without respect this can't happen...

    so what i would recommend doing is two things...first have a talk with the senior guys and make sure they learn the names of each and every junior member...tell the senior guys what each junior is expected to know, so when on the fire ground, the juniors are only asked to do what is expected of them...and make sure the senior guys give the juniors "a pat on the back", thanking them...making them feel important is a major step in making them grow in the service...next, get the juniors into some form of organized training, be it with a county fire school or other accredited training center...make sure they take an intro course to saftey and training so they become enlightened of what can happen when **** hits the fan...that will open their eyes...

    like i said before, brotherhood and friendship are a major part of the fire service, and goofing off is what teenagers do...as teenagers, they like to have fun with what they are doing...so let them have some fun in training, whether its having water fights or competitions for ladder raises and such...but let them have fun, thats the only way they will get the work done...

    congratulate them...if someone does an exceptional job at a fire or durring training, tell them good job, and tell an officer to say good job to them too...

    that is all...

    stay safe

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    weve been kicking so many out lately
    Not wanting to offend you or your organization, but if this is true, there must be some bigger issues here. Maybe some better recruiting/screening of members? Maybe the entire Junior program needs to be overhauled? I'm not saying you/it's bad, but if that many are having to get kicked out, there is a problem. Everyone has the right to apply to be a FF, not everyone gets the privilege to serve.

    Good luck, you seem to be doing it and trying for the right reasons.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    also may try and get the Department Chief involved ........sometimes they just gotta go !
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    Originally posted by Truck32
    Have you warned them already?
    If yes then get rid of them. I believe there is time to goof around but if they are doing it non stop then they gotta go.
    YOU HAVE A PONIT THERE IF THEY DON'T WANT TO STOP SEND THEM HOME OR JUST GIVE THEM THE BOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Owwwwwwwww! My ears, huh what did you say? What?
    No longer an explorer, but I didn't wanna lose my posts.

    IACOJ 2003

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    you all got great points. I only wish my county had a fire training program for jrs. but since my dept. is the only one that lets jrs. do anything they dont got a class. the chiefs are great they say hey who ever your doing great and stuff its just when its time to be serious for the public to see they dont act responsible witch is costing the dept. dearly we just bout a multi million dollar rescue and were trying to get a new station now. and its costing us donations. and im trying to get a new training program for jrs. going for us but every night i go to start to teach they say we dont need this and leave or go to another area of the station. i which leads to suspensions. see our jrs are just unpacked extirior firefighters we do everything outside. just last week i was doing roof work at a structure fire. and they dont realize firefighting is life or death. and its not to be goofed off with.

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    why don't you start a class for the jr's???

    we started one for the explorers here it is going good so far.

    if they keep acting up get someone they will listen to or you will have to boot them. you can't have people running around a fire scene not knowing what they are doing.
    IF YOU FOLLOW ALL OF THE RULES YOU MISS ALL OF THE FUN.

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    Just let them have lights on there cars........natural selection should take over from there.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    ltj7bath, a multi million dollar rescue? Ain't never in my life seen a truck that is 3 or 4 million dollar price. If you came to my public and asked for money after wasting it like that, I would stop donating to you also.
    just last week i was doing roof work at a structure fire.
    Juniors do not belong on roofs at structure fires. Did you have an SCBA? Are you allowed to have an SCBA? What if you fell through? Juniors do not belong on roofs at structure fires.


    You have some juniors that are not exhibiting the bad behavior, work with that core group. Let them set the good example. If the others don't follow, let them see the door.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    It sounds to me as though your explorers may have a respect issue with the explorer officers if they are just getting up and walking away in the middle of a presentation given by one of you. Perhaps looking at the current leadership and the qualities possessed by each is a good jumping off point. Asking them why they feel that they don't need the training or education is perhaps another avenue you can take. It's been my experience that when children misbehave there is always an underlying reason.

    And just because I couldn't resist:

    see they dont act responsible witch is


    Was the "witch" exhibiting improper broom riding techniques????
    To the world you might be one person, but to one person you just might be the world.

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    Originally posted by explr985
    Owwwwwwwww! My ears, huh what did you say? What?

    HAHA I was reading these and I knew you were going to have a field day with these.
    NEVER FORGET!
    9/11/01

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    what u could also try to do is have a senior member act as a junior "coordinator"...that how we have it set up...so he's in charge for our training and such, but basically oversees the opperations and pushes the junior officers along where need be...also we have a specific junior training day set up...sunday afternoons all the junior go to the station, we start all the power tools, generators and such...we clean up a bit, straighten out the house and do some other general maintenance (ie check air packs)...then we go out for an hour or so and do some basic training...pulling a few handlines, raising ladders, working the aerial (under supervision), hitting hydrants, stretching leader lines, and other basic task a junior would be expected to do on the fire ground...it is not until the junior member can sufficiently prove to the junior officers and the junior coordinator that he can perform any task asked of him and that he can name and show the use of every tool carried, that he/she can ride on the first due piece. giving juniors something to strive for is important...

    the juniors in my dept. are allowed to take the classroom portion of FF1, so that is what is considered formal training for us. the rest of our training is done in house.

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    Unhappy Rply to Need Help

    All i can say is one word that cures most people,
    PUSH UPS
    the training group i am in has a discipline problem too, and when things get outta hand we have to do these military style pushups, and our motto is, go one go all. So if one guy messes around we all do push ups. It sucks but it works. Either that or we end up doing strenuous physical training all night. Either way, kill em with push ups, if that doesnt work then you have to go to more drastic measures, such as expulsion from the program.

    the above statement is my opinion, it does not reflect the opinion of the group or associations I Represent.

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    I was an Explorer Capt/DC/Chief for many years. I am now a regular firefighter. All I have to say is that it's a pride issue. They have no pride in their department, their post or themselves. The lack of pride and lack of respect will get them killed. All I have to say is... stop talking and start pushing. Push will either get stuff fixed or get them out. I only dismissed one explorer in my 4 yrs. All of the others who didn't trully want to be there got themselves out.

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    Your Juniors are on the roof of a working structure fire?!?!?!?!?!

    It seems the delinquents are the least of the problems in this department...
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    ltj7bath in the same post that you say that Jr's are exterior firefighters that dont pack up you also say that you were doing roof work at a structure fire...where I come from not masking up while doing roof work will get a seasoned firefighter a good slap after the incident, a jr. on the roof is unheard of, and anyone in an IDLH atmosphere without a pack on has no business being there...which includes juniors and explorers. Are you teling us that as a jr. you have done truck work without a pack?? Ive had more than one fast running attic fire blow out the vent hole over my head before and my pack saved my rear. Ive also gone partially through a soft roof, had I gone all the way through without a pack I would have stood no chance. I am also quite interested in your multi million dollar rescue...I just cant figure out what your rescue has on it that would cost multi millions...

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    Default Re: I Need Some Help

    Originally posted by ltj7bath
    I need some help. Im a Lt. of a junior group and we been having troubles getting the other jrs. to quit there goofing off in public. And with them not paying attention in training weve done so much to try to get them to like we suspend um and stuff but they just dont stop. Its so bad they dont remember what we teach them sometimes 10 min. later. its ****ing me off when we need something done at a fire scene and they dont know how.

    Do you have any suggestions?
    Pushups never hurt anybody.

    Sounds like they have serious respect issues. Your people need to mature or get out, as their disrespect during training is going to hurt others in the post. Who are the younger ones going to look up to? How are you going to convince people to come in and train you people if they remember that the last time they came in, several people goofed off the entire time?

    [edit]Sorry I didn't see your post RFDfirewmn.
    Last edited by greenlead; 02-26-2004 at 08:39 PM.

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    in some past post of mine i might have miss lead you guys.

    with the rescue deal- i meant that we got a multi thousand dollar rescue and we now need to get a couple million dollars for a new station. i typed out the messages wrong sorry.

    as with the roof ****- yes ive done roof duty more than once. everytime due to lack of anyone else wanting to go up, or there just wasnt anyone else to do it. i know it aint smart safe and so on. but i cant use a pack by law. and the job needed to get done.

    the problem has not been much of a problem lately cuz i laid down the basic rules either the **** stops or there was going to be hell to pay outside the dept. walls. a couple weeks ago me and my capt. and other lt. sat every other jr. down and talked ok yelled at them for about 2 hours about the bull**** and it stopped. we even got some compliments lately on knowing what were doing.

    the head investigator almost **** his pants the other day at a structure fire because or jr dept. knows more about fire fighting then most the depts. in the county. hes one tough cookie to get a compliment out of. and he said that about us. see the problem is the other jrs are great firefighters they just dont like team work. and i talked to um about that and said basically this job doesnt let u choice who u work with u just do it. i said u dont have to be friend them just have to trust them and work with them. i used some ideas that u guys came up with. and right now i am making a jr firefighting class for anyone in the county that wants there jrs. trained.

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    check out www.bathfire.org and check out our rescue if u want.
    and we got a thing on there bout a new station. read if u would like

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    Well, I'm glad you seem to have goofing off issue under control. That often is immpossible and it seems you nailed it. It is also most excellent that the senior members, especially the picky ones, think highly of your group. That is often the opposite so obviosuly your doing something right.

    However, this whole "There is no one else to do the roof work so lets send the kids" thing is still nuts and probably illegal.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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