1. #1
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    SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Jul 2003

    Default Numbers for 2004 Fire Act Grant and review of 2003 Numbers for Fire Act Grant

    This thread is to discuss what the cost estimates should be for the 2004 grant, what you were actualy awarded for 2003, and what you ended up paying for you purchases. Also, what did you do with any left over money under the 5000$ guidlines?

    Any and all comments and critisism of my projects is accepted, and actualy is very appreciated. I need all the help I can get!

    I did 3 Fire Act Grants for 3 departments in 2003 and recieved 1. 1 was for a vehicle (denied) and 2 were for Safety/PPE (1 accepted, 1 denied).


    I used these numbers for the 2003 grant.

    Head to toe turnouts, helmet, hood, bunker jacket/pants, gloves, boots: 1600$

    SCBA, 4500 PSI: 4500$

    Thermal Imager: 16,000$ (Reduced by FEMA to 12,000$ right away)

    These were the numbers I was advised to use at a grant workshop IIRC. The Thermal Imager funding was reduced to 12,000 right from the start.

    We were awared:

    1600$ for Head to Toe PPE
    4500$ for SCBAs
    12,000$ for TIC

    Prices we ended up paying for the department awarded. They recieved enough PPE to outfit 12 out of 28 members. This year I am going to try to get PPE for the other 16 guys.:

    I think we got some pretty good deals, at least for our area.

    Head to toe turnouts: 1300$ for pretty good stuff, not top of the hill, but a huge improvment over the worn out dated stuff they had. Chieftain 3200X (Advance shell), Fireman VIII gloves, PBI hood, Phenix 1500 helmets, Ranger boots.

    SCBA: 4500$ for Drager PSS100, 4500 PSI, 45 minute Carbon Fiber bottles, buddy breather, Sentinel moduel, voice amplifyer, fully NFPA compliant with HUD, PASS, and RIC. This was an incredibly deal from what I can tell, I added up the prices from a catelog for these units and it came out to 7060$!!! We are very very please with these, and I think our vendor realy bent over backward to get these for our 4500$ allowed. I dont think he made hardly anything on them. We were comparing these to Scott AP 50, 4500 PSI, 45 minute carbon bottles, RIC, HUD, PASS, AVN 2000 facepiece at 4200$ bid price. We had Scott brand loyalty (Scott Airpak IIs from the 1970s were our front line packs) but the Dragers were impresive. The department loved both packs, and they loved the "coolness" of Scotts, sort of like leather healmets and such. The Drager had more features (Buddy Breather, vocie amplifyer, and Sentinel) then the Scott and would still fit the grant. Also, we had much better support and service for the Drager. So, Drager got the nod.

    TIC: 12,300 for MSA Evolution 5000 with transmitter. We coughed up the extra 300$.

    While the PPE came in significantly under the request, the TIC and the SCBA didnt quite make it, but we made it work none the less.


    I am throwing the CBRNE BS out the window first thing.

    So, what would be some good numbers to request for the 2004 grants?

    What I was thinking so far:

    Head to toe PPE: 1,600$ incase somebody comes to their senses and gets leather boots!!! The department that recieved the grant last year is economy minded, and only upgraded to Advance PPE over their Nomex III, and basicly went with the top line turnout from an economy manufacturer (Cheiftain). The other department I am working with is PBI all the way, they want the top flight PPE. Anybody have any estimates on how much a Globe for Morning Pride set of PBI would run if you are purchaseing around 30 or so sets? I think 1600 would still cover PBI gear, but it would be close. Catelog prices put a PBI set of PPE at about 1300-1400 for just the bunker coat and pants. What is the Max request for head to toe PPE that will be awarded. Is there a limit like with the TICs?

    SCBA: At least 5,000$, maybe 5500$ if my other department demands Scott. I would sooner see everybody go Drager for training and such. I still cant get over how the cost of our Dragers as listed in the catelog would have been 7060$, but when you order 12 and get some competition going between dealers we got them for 4500$. What is the Max request for SCBAs that will be awarded? Is there a limit like with the TICs?

    TIC: I have not heard if the FEMA limit remains 12,000$. Not that that is bad, you can get a hell of a nice TIC for that. We are very impressed with our MSA unit. I just dont want to request to much for this, IE the 16,000 I requested last year. Any word on this yet?

    I expect prices to jump a bit as they always do year to year, with the exception maybeing being the TICs. They seem to be dropping in price.

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  2. #2
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    Join Date
    Nov 2003


    Looks like you guys put in a great effort to get the most bang for your buck. We too were awarded a grant this year for similar items. We were able to purchase 10 MSA SCBA with voice amplifiers,HUD,and MSA version of the sential the ICM 2000 Plus with digital display. Compared to the prices of Scott,Drager,MSA,Survivair they were all very competitive. The Dragers were the highest with a price of 4700 each, that included the options you mentioned plus a spare cylinder. We went with the MSA for a couple of reasons, we liked the field of vision better than the others and we were MSA before and the membership was happy with the service and support we had from our local MSA dealer. I dont think you went wrong with the Drager, they are a very,very nice pack. As far as the limit, our grant asked for 4750 per SCBA and that was reduced to 4500.
    On our TIC we asked for 11,500 and got it as well. We purchased the Scott Eagle 160. We compared it with MSA,Bullard and couple more and it suited our needs better than the others.
    We asked for 20 complete sets of gear at 1400 a set. Yea I know that is a little low,however our neighboring department was award three rounds after us and we put our order for 50 sets together and the dealer gave us a nice break. We purchase Fire Dex(Nomex III) with all the extras leather boots,1010 Classic Helmets,hoods and gloves all for 1300. Whewww, kinda close there.

    As for next year we are working our naritive towards a cascade system and fire hose. We are getting prices this week for these two needs. Im guessing around 30,000 for the cascade and 15,000 for hose. (Both supply hose and attack hose)

  3. #3
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    Join Date
    Jan 2004


    These prices mostly off the top of my head, but I think I asked for around 1900 head to foot in 2002 (Awarded) Top of the line Globe millenia, Leather boots (Ranger) Cairns Metro Helmets with deluxe liner (Sorry all you Leather Forever guys-but only outfitting half the department, and that would have been a war.) Can't remember gloves and hoods, nothing to special there. I figured if I was going for it, I was going first class. That and I had bought that set (out of my on pocket) the year before. If I didn't get the guys the same protection I got myself, I would have felt guilty. So you can go a little higher for your tog prices if you want.

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