Thread: Why? Why? Why?

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    Angry Why? Why? Why?

    I could not bring myself to post this in a thread meant to remember our fallen brothers but the events of this week have made me ask myslef Why? Why have we lost three brothers this week from roof collapses? We need to take lessons from everyone of these LODD's and learn them, not just say a kind word for the family and fellow brothers and forget about it the next week. Learn the Lessons!!! What happened in Wood River,NE or Diamond,Mo are no less important than what happened in Worcester,MA. Firefighters were killed while operating inside structures and we as fellow firefighters should not sit idly by. We need to train how to handle building in our districts, we need to learn building construction, we can not allow breakdowns in the Incident Command System or communications on the fire ground. We also need to make the push for RIT Teams. It's in our hands. My department has lost a fellow brother in the line of duty. I wish that upon no other department and it should not happen. Prevention is key in this whole process. Train,Train,Train there can be no end to training, no FF knows it all! Sorry to go off on a tangent but seeing the headlines this week has made me frustrated. I do truly feel sorry for our brothers we have lost and for their families but to show them we care, take the lessons from them and let's not allow this to happen again.
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    I agree hoppy. I was also disturbed to see that we lost 3 in a week especially since they all had the same mechanism (collapse).

    Everyone be careful out there...

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    Congratulations grasshopper!You are now on your way to being part of the solution rather than part of the problem.Only thru proactive action can the burdens of these losses be lessened.Those who can or will try will succeed,those who won't will fail or worse.T.C.

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    I have to totally agree with you Hoppy, these LODDs are terrible. Training, training, training, you can't get enough. Pushing RIT is something every department should take seriously as well. We should all learn from these tragedies, the minute you don't take your training seriously or think you know it all you need to get out of the Fire/Resque Services before you get yourself or someone else hurt or worse!!!

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    Good post Hoppy. There's a lot of RIT and "saving our own" training out there. We need to commit to it and always strive to be well educated and well trained in all areas of firefighting.

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    Originally posted by Ack8236
    Good post Hoppy. There's a lot of RIT and "saving our own" training out there. We need to commit to it and always strive to be well educated and well trained in all areas of firefighting.
    You know we discussd this in another thread, and not trying to be picky, but I think some of the time spent RIT and saving our own needs to be spent on not getting our butts there in the first place. Recognition of the hazards we face may be the single most important thing we an do to prevent tragedys such as these.

    Dave

    Good post Hoppy

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    I've found there is a differant culture regarding LODD between wildland and structure firefighters, typically with wildland the blame game starts looking for who screwed up, with most structure related deaths the immediate reaction tends to be, "it happens sometimes". Wildland gives us the 10/18, LCES, the common denominators etc, I don't know of a structural equivelent to these. Maybe it isn't an appropriate connection but a lessons learned attitude following LODD might be able to come up with a structural version of these. Just a thought.

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    You know we discussed this in another thread, and not trying to be picky, but I think some of the time spent RIT and saving our own needs to be spent on not getting our butts there in the first place. Recognition of the hazards we face may be the single most important thing we an do to prevent tragedys such as these.
    I will have to agree there...It is good to have someone outside to come and pull your butt out, but better to not even get in trouble..This does not apply to all LODD..But how many of them could we have prevented???
    Ain't Skeerd
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    Default Proactive vs. Reactive

    I'd rather prevent a bad situation from developing in the first place. Of course, that isn't always possible.
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    But it's a worthwhile goal to work towards.Never let your guard down!T.C.

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    That's why I said we need to continue to be trained and educated in ALL areas of firefighting. But unless you are going to cease doing internal operations, there are going to be situations where someone needs help. We do need to train for that also.

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    I'm certainly not going to be critical of any brother's actions after he has made the ultimate sacrifice, but I'm in total agreement that we are not learning from events that have killed brothers and sisters.

    RIT and other "saving our own" training must continue and must be utilized on the fireground. What we need is more training and better use of hazard vs. risk assessments. DO WE NEED TO BE IN THERE?!

    We must learn from our past or we are destined to repeat it.

    Be safe.
    Lt. D. Gordon
    Greendale Fire Department
    Greendale, IN

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    What bothers me is most of the time we dont get all the facts in the news stories. Not that I am being a Monday morning quarterback, but for future reference and training it would be nice to know more information such as, fire conditions, construction type. etc. I just attended a seminar and the the speakers were Chief Lasky form Lewisville Texas and Deputy Chief Coleman from Toledo Ohio. And their message was real similar to some others, tes we need to train in RIT and saving our own. But we also need to train on how not to get in trouble in the first place.

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