1. #1
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    Default 9/11 Victims' Kin Angered by Bush Ads

    WASHINGTON - Relatives of victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and a firefighters union said Thursday they're angry that President Bush (news - web sites)'s new campaign ads include images of the destroyed World Trade Center and firefighters carrying a flag-draped stretcher through the rubble.

    They say the ads are in poor taste and accuse Bush of exploiting the attacks. Bush's campaign defended the commercials as appropriate for an election about public policy and the war on terror, saying they were a tasteful reminder of what the country has been through the last three years. The campaign had said in the past that it would not use the attacks for political gain.


    "It makes me sick," Colleen Kelly, who lost her brother Bill Kelly Jr., in the attacks and leads a victims families group called Peaceful Tomorrows, said Thursday. "Would you ever go to someone's grave site and use that as an instrument of politics? That truly is what Ground Zero represents to me."


    "September 11th was not just a distant tragedy. It's a defining event for the future of our country," Karen Hughes, a Bush campaign adviser, told "The Early Show" on CBS on Thursday. "Obviously, all of us mourn and grieve for the victims of that terrible day, but September 11 fundamentally changed our public policy in many important ways, and I think it's vital that the next president recognize that."


    The first ads started running Thursday on broadcast channels in about 80 markets in 18 states, most of which are expected to be critical to the election, and nationwide on select cable networks. The ads do not mention Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites), focusing instead on improving Bush's image after criticism by Democrats in recent months. Bush is expected to spend a large part of his $100 million war chest on ads.


    One of the ads shows the charred wreckage of the twin towers with a flag flying amid the debris. Another ad — and a Spanish-language version of it — use that image as well alongside firefighters carrying a flag-draped stretcher through the rubble as sirens are heard. Firefighters are shown in all the ads.


    Harold Schaitberger, president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, on Thursday called the ads disgraceful and said they should be pulled.


    "We're not going to stand for him to put his arm around one of our members on top of a pile of rubble at Ground Zero during a tragedy and then stand by and watch him cut money for first responders," Schaitberger said. He said his union is politically independent even though it endorsed Kerry and has donated money to Republicans.


    Barbara Minervino, a Republican from Middletown, N.J., who lost her husband, Louis, in the attacks, questioned whether Bush was "capitalizing on the event."


    David Potorti, an independent from Cary, N.C., whose brother Jim died in the north tower, called the campaign's use of the images audacious.


    "It's an insult to use the place where my brother died in an ad," Potorti said. "I would be just as outraged if any politician did this."


    Until Bush cooperates with the federal commission that is investigating the nation's preparedness before the attacks and its response "by testifying in public under oath ... he should not be using 9/11 as political propaganda," said Kristen Breitweiser, of Middletown Township, N.J., whose husband, Ronald Breitweiser, 39, died in the World Trade Center.


    "Three thousand people were murdered on President Bush's watch," Breitweiser said. "He has not cooperated with the investigation to find out why that happened."



    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...litical_ads_13
    NEVER FORGET!
    9/11/01

  2. #2
    Truckie
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    How about an end to the whinning.

    "Three thousand people were murdered on President Bush's watch," Breitweiser said.
    All because of the failures by the previous administration, read Clinton.
    Besides, if Kerry had actually accomplished anything, he would have something to put in his ads. Unless you count amassing the most liberal voting record award for the Senate.
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    How about an end to the whinning.
    Buddy, if ANYBODY has a right to voice their opinion about this subject, Ms. Breitweiser does. Ever heard of a book called Middletown America? Give it a read. Your disrespect is uncalled for and your comment is, at minimum, disrespectful.

    By the way, did you notice the IAFF's statement on the subject?

    Just wondering. A direct response is not necessary.

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    So nobody should be allowed to say anything good ro bad about the WTC? If the IAFF ****es and moans about Bush using the ads for "political gain" then I expect that Kerry should should get the same reaction from the IAFF, I doubt that he will but he should.

    I have no problem with it. It was an attack on the sovereign soil of the United States of America. Unfortunately, I feel most people in this country have forgotten about it. I couldn't care less if you were a janitor, paramedic, firefighter, or bartender that died. It is footage of a altering event in our nation's history. I agree, quit whining. Heaven forbid someone get offended at anything nowadays.

    Until Bush cooperates with the federal commission that is investigating the nation's preparedness before the attacks and its response "by testifying in public under oath ... he should not be using 9/11 as political propaganda," said Kristen Breitweiser, of Middletown Township, N.J., whose husband, Ronald Breitweiser, 39, died in the World Trade Center.
    I guess Kerry should testify too, since he was in the Senate and made votes to reduce our intelligence gathering capabilites contributing to the attacks not being detected earlier.

    Buddy, if ANYBODY has a right to voice their opinion about this subject, Ms. Breitweiser does.
    So because she lost her husband no one can voice a dissenting opinion with her?
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 03-04-2004 at 05:14 PM.
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    Thumbs down

    I am still upset over the IAFF pushing kerry. But they always back the democrats regardless. Look what happen to the country after slick willie clinton too office. Bill couldn't make a descision without consulting hillery.

    I was in Vietman and when I came back, I didn't throw my medals away and denounce any one that was still over there or who served over there, like kerry did.

    His voting record in congress is poor when it comes to the military!!!


    OH my blood pressure just went up 50 points.

    Politics and wild women, two bad things the discuss!!


    Stay Safe & Well out there....
    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 03-04-2004 at 05:28 PM.

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    OH my blood pressure just went up 50 points.
    Serenity now, Cap. Serentiy now.

    Politics and wild women, two bad things the discuss!!
    Don't forget religion. We have had some rather racous discussions here about religion.

    Politics, religion, and women. Bad mojo man. Bad mojo.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Buddy, if ANYBODY has a right to voice their opinion about this subject, Ms. Breitweiser does.
    and so should every single relative of any single person that was killed that day, whether it involved NYC, PA, or the Pentagon. You may as well include all the families of soldiers that have been killed in Afghanistan for that matter as that is why they are over there.

    Ever heard of a book called Middletown America?
    Nope, I live close enough to Middletown NJ to know about the town, the area, and the people.

    By the way, did you notice the IAFF's statement on the subject?
    Yup, pretty sad that they are still blaming Bush for NYC firehouses being closed and companies being understaffed. Lord knows, they were never understaffed before Bush became President.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    To All Concerned Parties:

    I've invited Ms. Breitweiser and her friends to log in and voice their opinions on the comments being made. On the off chance she/they are too busy to do so, those with an open mind might like to visit http://9-11Congress.netfirms.com/Breitweiser.html Perhaps then you might better understand why I would find the initial "whinning" comment so inappropriate.

    Whether you agree with her or not, she's deserving of a great deal more respect than she received in this particular thread.

    Thanks for your time.

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    I knew this would happen. Let's at least try to keep this one civil.

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    Ok. I just saw two of the adds today that this thread is about.

    The first shows a flag draped litter being carried off of the rubble by firefighters while the the voice over talks about the challenges and changes that we have weathered in the past 3 years.

    The second shows a beautiful piece of red, white, and blue cloth sewn together flying at teh WTC as viewed through one of the building's broken windows with a voice over talking about the challenges and changes that we have weathered in the past three years.

    And the problem with this is what exactly?

    I understand that there is another add with Bush's arms around a firefighter at the WTC. And the problem with this is what?

    As for the IAFFs response, read it. typical garbage and rhetoric from the president and e-board.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

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    I did take the time to look at the link provided by APK. Most of the dates listed as proof are in the time frame of the Clinton presidency. Why isn't there a huge cry for him to come clean a cooperate with any investigations? Maybe it's because she will get more airtime by jumping on the liberal band wagon of Bush bashing? Just maybe it's because of what Bush did, it worked? Can't recall anymore attacks on American soil since.
    As far as the IAFF, one of the benifits I get by belonging to that organization is the ability to disagree with some of their choices, needless to say, Kerry for president is one of them. Sorry, I just don't feel guilty for being an American, even with our countries faults.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    "Three thousand people were murdered on President Bush's watch," Breitweiser said. "He has not cooperated with the investigation to find out why that happened."
    First of all, I disagree that SPFD was being disrespectful. If anyone is being disrespectful, it is Ms. Breitweiser towards the president of this great nation. So what if it was on Bush's watch that 3,000 people died in a terrorist attack? What is her point here? Does she want us to believe that up until the day President Bush was elected that these terrorists weren't planning any attacks, didn't hate America, and just sat over there minding their own business??? I'm trying to understand her point. As for that last sentence about Bush not coopererating in the investigation - I think that is a flat-out lie.

    I don't see any reason why Bush can't use the images of Ground Zero. The people of this country need a good reminder. They need to know that it can happen again - ESPECIALLY if a democrat is elected president. I think Bush has done a hell of a job. It is March 2004 and we have not been attacked since 9/11.

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    ESPECIALLY if a democrat is elected president.
    Oh, give it a rest! Clinton was president for how long?? By your reasoning, the first WTC attack was GB1's fault, huh?

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    By your reasoning, the first WTC attack was GB1's fault, huh?
    Actually, the first bombing in the WTC occurred about a month into the Clinton presidency, so the intelligence failures there also lay on the feet of the 41st president. Your statement holds merit, despite the sarcastic intent. This is not mention that facts that the Clinton administration put off intelligence briefings into the matter for months after the bombing.

    There is also the matter of the plans found on Ramsei Yousef regarding the notion of flying aircraft into high rise buildings when he was captured during the Clinton presidency. The FBI adn CIA both admit to failing to accurately and appropriately investigate this matter even after ties were found between Yousef and other worldwide terrorist organizations, of which one was Al Quaeda. Am I saying that Clinton knew everything? No. Just as Bush did not know everything, but the incidents occurred on thier watch and they are responsible overall. As are the previous administrations for thier failure to ensure proper following of protocols, procedures, and intelligence gathering failures.

    The pointing to Clinton lay in the facts that he cut human intelligence gathering tactics and assets withing the CIA. Failed to take offers by a couple of countries to receive UBL on at least 5 seperate occassions, these countries include Sudan, Saudi Arabia, and I believe the United Arab Emirates (Not quite sure on the last one). Failure to appropriately respond to the bombing of 2 U.S. Embassies, a U.S. Navy destroyer, and a barracs full of Air Force servicemen and women in Saudi Arabia, and failure to properly enforce UN resolutions in Somalia, especially after 19 soldiers were killed in Mogadishu. These actions sent a message that we are soft and will not respond when attacked. Many intelligence analysts and officials have stated this numerouse times and in numerous forms of media.

    That is a total of 6 seperate incidents for which little or no response was meted out by the 42nd president of the United States.

    I also recall reading an article, I believe in Reader's Digest, that one of the major points of interest in the transition between the Clinton and (second) Bush presidencies was UBL. If I recall the exact quote was something like - "One of the major issues that you will have to deal with is Usama Bin Laden."

    Why isn't there a huge cry for him (Clinton)to come clean a cooperate with any investigations?
    Because that is politics. Clinton, Gore, and the National security advising team should be because there is a lot of information out there that existed long before the change in administrations that needs to be disclosed.
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 03-04-2004 at 08:43 PM.
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    The airline industry has known for YEARS about the very real danger of highjacking, irregardless of the reason. Yet, they chose to do NOTHING to counter it. If any one entity is to blame for the attacks on the WTC, it is the airline industry. They knew the cockpits of airliners were vulnerable and unsecure. They knew that their gate security systems were a joke.

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    Posted by SPFDRum
    did take the time to look at the link provided by APK. Most of the dates listed as proof are in the time frame of the Clinton presidency. Why isn't there a huge cry for him to come clean a cooperate with any investigations? Maybe it's because she will get more airtime by jumping on the liberal band wagon of Bush bashing? Just maybe it's because of what Bush did, it worked?
    Why is there no outcry for Clinton to cooperate? Because he has agreed to meet with the commission. There is no need for an "outcry".

    Posted by CaptOldTimer
    I am still upset over the IAFF pushing kerry. But they always back the democrats regardless.
    Wrong. The IAFF backs those who back firefighters. For example, the IAFF is currently supporting the passage of legislation that has been itroduced by the following.

    Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH)
    Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH)
    Rep. Ernest Istook (R-OK)
    Sen. Michael Enzi (R-WY)
    Rep. Jo Ann Davis (R-VA)

    The IAFF supports many republican legislators and other candidates.

    The intelligence failures that allowed the 9/11 hijackers to carry out their plan go as far back as the CIA and FBI themselves. I find it strange that the two agencies that have the most difficulty communicating with each other are just about the only agencies that were not brought into the beaurocracy of the DHS.

    The Bush administration lost credibility when their kneejerk reaction to 9/11 was to claim they had no reason to suspect terrorists would try to hijack planes and crash them into buildings. Then, lo and behold there was Condi Rice and Ari Fleischer back pedaling their tails off when the information came out. I could go on and on. There is enough blame to be shared by the last three or four presidents.
    Last edited by Duffman; 03-05-2004 at 08:16 AM.
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    Um, duff - that is not my quote. I didn't write it.

    As for the ads though, I have seen an interview with family members that do not have a problem with the President using footage from the WTC in the ads. There isn't even a concensus between the families.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

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    I guess Kerry should testify too, since he was in the Senate and made votes to reduce our intelligence gathering capabilites contributing to the attacks not being detected earlier.
    A little clip from the other thread:

    Oh, and Kerry's vote to cut $1.5 billion from the "intelligence budget".


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Air Force's National Reconnaissance Office had appropriated that much money to operate a spy satellite that, as things turned out, it never launched. So the Senate passed an amendment rescinding the money—not to cancel a program, but to get a refund on a program that the NRO had canceled. Kerry voted for the amendment, as did a majority of his colleagues.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Context is a bitch isn't it.

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    Default Sorry Sharkie, Thanks Artie

    I have corrected my error. Many apologies to Sharkie.

    Thanks to Artie for bringing the context of Kerry's "anti-intelligence" vote here. Just who posted that originally anyway????
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

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    There is enough blame to be shared by the last three or four presidents.
    Of this there is no doubt. All the more reason to leave it off the campaign table. The Ds and Rs must both take a hit for the lack of intel and/or sharing of the same. My opinion, if GW wants to use 9-11 as a political propaganda piece, he must accept the negative spin that will place some blame into his oval office. Let's face it, it happened on his watch and he MUST accept responsibility for any and all lapses which left us vulnerable.

    A quick fire analogy: If I come on duty and the off-going Lt. fails to tell me of a braking problem due to an air leak in the rig. I have begun my tour with a defective piece of equipment. The off-going Lt. should have made me aware, but did not. First call, we get into an accident caused by low air locking up the brakes. It is determined the leak was something that would have been uncovered had a proper and required inspection of the apparatus been performed at the start of the tour. The accident is MY responsibility, even though the last Lt. failed to pass on this information.
    When all is said and done, the events of my tour fall on my shoulders and it is up to me to accept any and all ramifications without trying to pass off blame to others.

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    If I come on duty and the off-going Lt. fails to tell me of a braking problem due to an air leak in the rig. I have begun my tour with a defective piece of equipment. The off-going Lt. should have made me aware, but did not. First call, we get into an accident caused by low air locking up the brakes. It is determined the leak was something that would have been uncovered had a proper and required inspection of the apparatus been performed at the start of the tour. The accident is MY responsibility, even though the last Lt. failed to pass on this information.

    Lets follow the logic:
    The off going Lt. should be held accountable for not having corrected the problem. Leaving a dangerous situation for the next person is criminal. So then, the off going president should be held accountable for not correcting the problem. Leaving a dangerous situation is criminal.
    Also if the driver doesn't notify you of the problem how can you correct it? If you don't have the intelligence how can you make adjustments?

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    In the world of politics and opinion, your views are going to vary based on where your idea's lay. If you are a liberal, or are not a fan of President Bush, there is a good possibility that you wont care for the ad's in question. Well you probably wont care for any advertisement that endorses him. The part of this whole deal that is somewhat troubling for me is the double standard that exists. My union, the IAFF has chosen to take take a strong position here. They have chosen to criticize the President for using images from that period of time in his message, while many of the literature I have recieved asking for my support of kerry has also referenced the same period of time. I think it more important to look beyond the politics, and consider the actual advertisement's. In my opinion the message was tactfull, and not tasteless. In the commercial the President was speaking of the hardships that his Presidency inherited, and was showing scenes from various parts of his term. It is up to each individual person to decide whether or not it was acceptable for the images to be in the message. I also think it important to remember that every sitting President has ****ed off someone 100 % of the time. Every President has also made decisions or enacted laws that not everyone will like or agree with. My only point here is, blame can directed at all who serve in that office just as easily as praise.

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    Originally posted by ThNozzleman

    Oh, give it a rest! Clinton was president for how long?? By your reasoning, the first WTC attack was GB1's fault, huh?
    No, I never said that. The main reason a terrorist attack is more likely to happen if a democrat is elected president is because they are much more likely to be anti-military, and more likely to give in to the every little cry of the ACLU. Kerry is about as anti-military as you'll see run for president, and he's promoting the fact that he was a war hero. Very hypocritical.

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    Lightbulb

    Bush is getting hammered for using 9/11 images in some of his ads (I'm gathering from the conversation...haven't seen them myself...been busy training). Try this on - hasn't Kerry been using images of himself in Vietnam in some ads? Is that disrespecting the tens of thousands family and friends of those who fought and died there???

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    Originally posted by drnapalm
    If I come on duty and the off-going Lt. fails to tell me of a braking problem due to an air leak in the rig. I have begun my tour with a defective piece of equipment. The off-going Lt. should have made me aware, but did not. First call, we get into an accident caused by low air locking up the brakes. It is determined the leak was something that would have been uncovered had a proper and required inspection of the apparatus been performed at the start of the tour. The accident is MY responsibility, even though the last Lt. failed to pass on this information.

    Lets follow the logic:
    The off going Lt. should be held accountable for not having corrected the problem. Leaving a dangerous situation for the next person is criminal. So then, the off going president should be held accountable for not correcting the problem. Leaving a dangerous situation is criminal.
    Also if the driver doesn't notify you of the problem how can you correct it? If you don't have the intelligence how can you make adjustments?
    That is why you always check your gear and equipment before you go on shift or shortly after. Thats our policy. Even if he neglects to do it your responsible yfor your crew and thier safty, dispite anyone elses negligence. If one of my men get hurt we we pull up on scene I am at fault for not making sure the secne was safe.
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