1. #1
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    Default So much for the bright, shiny trucks!

    Is it just me or is this way over the top? Can/do people still wash their cars in New Jersey? How about washing the ambulance?


    --------------

    New Jersey Firemen Will Have To Find A New Place To Wash Trucks


    SHERRY CONOHAN
    Courtesy of Atlanticville

    EATONTOWN ó Firefighters will no longer be able to wash their fire engines in front of the firehouse under new state storm water management regulations.

    Councilman Theodore F. Lewis Jr. remarked at the Feb. 11 Borough Council meeting that he had just heard the new regulations would bar the washing of fire trucks at the firehouse. Business Administrator Michael L. Trotta confirmed that was true.

    Trotta said the suds produced from washing fire trucks and garbage trucks are considered a pollution discharge under the regulations and will now have to be collected and properly disposed of.

    "It just seems absurd," Lewis said.

    "Over time, weíre going to have to consider some very expensive operation," Trotta said.

    Lewis said he could understand applying the new regulations to commercial enterprises since they can increase the fees to their customers to cover the cost.

    But for municipalities, he said, the tab will be picked up by taxpayers.

    Trotta said later the regulations require that the water to wash fire trucks and garbage trucks must be contained in the future and not allowed to drain down the driveway into the street and from there into storm drains. He said his recommendation is for the borough to enter interlocal agreements with other municipalities to have one truck-wash facility, which they can all share.

    The borough has a year to plan what itís going to do, he explained.

    "I donít know how soon we have to have it built and ready to go," he said. "We already have a contract with Conteís (in Long Branch) for the washing of police cars and borough cars."

    Trotta said the borough is paying its engineering firm, T&M Associates of Middletown, $5,000 to advise it on all facets of the new regulations.

    Lewis expressed concern also about the loss of the camaraderie among the volunteer firemen that goes along with washing the fire engines together.

  2. #2
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    What a bunch of BS.

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    Not BS; fact of life. Storm drains in most cities do not feed to a water treatment plant, but directly back to a water source. Here's a link to some info about water pollution.
    http://www.kitsapgov.com/sswm/sswm_water_pollution.pdf

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    if they can't wash their trucks, then iguess they can save money by not having to buy soap.
    IF YOU FOLLOW ALL OF THE RULES YOU MISS ALL OF THE FUN.

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    Well........if there is a simple act in life.......NJ will find a way to make it more expensive and complicated.

    And yes I realize I am calling the kettle black liveing in Mass.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Default What...

    Ummm...no more carbs in food, no more sex any where
    no more "In God We Trust" and no more washing of
    the fire trucks...Whats next?

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    Stupid. Plain and simple. Stupid.

    I am not a scientist, or a chemist or anything but how does road salt? Lime? Sand? Street cleaners rate? All of it goes to the same place. I dont know how any of it can be truly worse than soap. And thats all your adding is a detergent, which I know biodegradable ones are available, because ours is anyhow. I just am saying that I know theres worse things in the water than car soap.

    Theres cars in the river in Tampa, FL, but we have to worry about legit car detergent.

    I guess there right this is a pretty serious issue... not... rediculous.
    Firefighter/EMT Mitch Cowen
    Hose Co. 1 1st Lieutenant
    Randolph Fire Co. Inc

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    I was thinking the same thing.......... rediculous...

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    Not stupid my friends, this is a sound ecological decision. If you only knew the damage that detergents can do to the environment you would agree with the decision. Lakes that were at one time pristein years ago and were subsequently inhabitated with houseing without proper grey and black water disposal setups were ultimatly and literaly chocked out along with any fish populations because of a huge influx of algea that proliferates when detergents and the like are introduced into them. When we built our fire hall we built a washbay into the plan for obvious reasons because its a zillion below zero in the winter but also because of the ecological benifets to not washing outside and allowing it to enter the storm sewer system. Yes I now it sounds like BS decision but ultimitly its not.

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    Why not say... use biodegradable detergents? I just hope New York dont get a hold of this story because I am surprised they havent enacted such policies, since New York has a stupid theory on everything (including taxes).

    And someone earlier raised a very good question... they can still wash their cars? Im sure theres a whole lot more cars in New Jersey than fire trucks, and I am sure they get washed a whole lot more often. Dont we all use the same detergents?

    My only fear is if you give into this hands down... next its going to be your shampoo, then hand soap... when is it going to stop? When are we going to realize that this pollution is just the mere effect of an industrialized world that is inevitable? Thats my problem... maybe Im thinking too hard.
    Firefighter/EMT Mitch Cowen
    Hose Co. 1 1st Lieutenant
    Randolph Fire Co. Inc

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    I just dont get that !
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    When the city complains about the trucks looking dirty, you just point, laugh and say " well why didnt you guys think that one over"

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    Question

    How long before residents will no longer be able to wash vehicles in their driveway? If it is harmful to wash the municipal vehicles...why is it different for thousands of private vehicles?

    More to come on this issue....for sure.
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    I cant believe it either...WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO FOR PARADES!!! J/K I'm sorry but there are a heck of alot other things going down the storm drain 100x's worst than a little soap detergent that will go down there 4 times a month IF THAT...What I dont understand is why are private vehicles ok? Why single out firetrucks? We wash our trucks alot less than we do our private vehicles...I just dont understand why the Firefighters always get the short end of the stick when it comes to things...I really dont...And I know I will stress myself out trying
    Andrew
    Firefighter/EMT
    New Jersey

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    Yeah isnt that the truth... the short end of the stick. Well I would hate to sound like a rebel, but I am sure I am not the only one who is going to think this, I wouldnt stop washing my truck. Maybe I would do it inside though and let it run out the doors and just say that I was "hose washing". Rediculous. Or maybe they can hold an monthly event to take the trucks to the chiefs house and wash them in his driveway . Any NEw Jersey want to comment on this ecological (more political probably) bs?
    Firefighter/EMT Mitch Cowen
    Hose Co. 1 1st Lieutenant
    Randolph Fire Co. Inc

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    Why single out firetrucks
    Ah, the uninformed. Firetrucks are not singled out. The rules apply to trucks (vehicles over a certain weight) and yes, it probably includes Hummers. The idea of the rule was that commercial trucks would have to be washed in areas that have the proper water recovery systems, like most vehicle washing locations. This would help reduce amounts of detergent and stuff going into open water. It won't stop it, but it would help reduce it some. Firetrucks fell into this category more by a mistake than on purpose. Trying to regulate personal vehicles getting washed in their driveways is pretty much impossible so they went after what they can control, at least a little bit. There aren't too many 18 wheelers getting washed at peoples homes. This is another example of where the NJ fire service failed to pay attention with what's going on in the State. It would have been fairly easy (I would assume) to have firetrucks exempted from the rule when it was being written.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Originally posted by LACAPT
    Lakes that were at one time pristein years ago and were subsequently inhabitated with houseing without proper grey and black water disposal setups were ultimatly and literaly chocked out along with any fish populations because of a huge influx of algea that proliferates when detergents and the like are introduced into them.
    So, these lakes died because people washed their cars and the soap drained into the water? Of course not. Sounds to me like there was a housing boom without building proper infastructure first.

    From the news story...
    Lewis expressed concern also about the loss of the camaraderie among the volunteer firemen that goes along with washing the fire engines together.
    For some reason, I found that statement funny. Maybe my department is different... but washing the rig seems to be the last thing anyone wants to do -- together or alone.

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    ROFLMAO!!!


    What a crock!

    If the firefighters can't wash the apparatus, then ALL city agenices are to follow suit.

    Once NJ can mandate this, then they will go after the public car washes and the folks that make a living washing cars. The poor guy who lives in the hood now can't wash his wheels.

    The bottom line more dirt and flith.







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    Don't you have drains in the aparatus floor?
    Wash the rig inside and the water goes to the treatment plant. Done, end of story.
    By us we have a UPS hub that has a truck washing building, I'm sure we could cut a deal with them if for some reason we had to stop washing in the bay. But again the waste water goes to the city treatment plant so it is a non issue.
    The EPA doesn't make exceptions for emergency services, look at the AFFF issue. You can't tell me that we train so much with foam that it is a serious hazard to the environment and had to be banned. But it was.
    We are just going to have to live with it and new firestations will have to build wash areas.

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    if they can't wash their trucks, then iguess they can save money by not having to buy soap.
    On the contrary, They need the soap to wash thier dirty laundary. If you remember in the recent past, Eatontown's chief was accused of selling fire department equipment on ebay.

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    Aren't there more important environmental issues?
    May we never forget our fallen, worldwide.

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    Originally posted by rfcmitch
    Why not say... use biodegradable detergents? I just hope New York dont get a hold of this story because I am surprised they havent enacted such policies, since New York has a stupid theory on everything (including taxes).
    My department is in Rockland County NY and there is a relatively new regulation in our area that prohibits drains inside garages for all new buildings for the same reasons that NJ is stopping truck washing. So when our third station was built in 1997, they weren't allowed to put drains inside. As far as I understand it, we got around the regulation by putting a long strip drain outside the doors and calling it a "storm drain." In this way when it is cold we can still wash our trucks inside. the only drawback is that ice forms in the winter in the foot of concrete between the door and the "storm drain" when we are washing down the trucks after calls or just washing them in general. We have to use liberal amounts of road salt to de-ice the area but it would've been worse with no drains at all. So now soap and salt gets sent into the drain.

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    Once NJ can mandate this, then they will go after the public car washes and the folks that make a living washing cars.
    I'm pretty sure that carwashes are required to either retain runoff, or have it connected to a water treatment system.
    http://www.moderncarcare.com/Articles/311feat6.html
    Last edited by ThNozzleman; 03-05-2004 at 05:14 PM.

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    Yes Noz, they are required to. Lots of them have truck bays also that you can bring a firetruck to for washing.

    Yes, Stayback, there are many more important issues and this little tiny piece of it is one minor section of a larger ruling that has mostly to do with towns and flood plane elevations, storm water runoffs, 100year flood measurements, etc. They can't cure everything in 1 big sweep, so they go after what they can. It's really not that bad and I would be embarrassed to have an article like this one on FH.com.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Cosmosis, no the lakes did not die from only people washing cars but from the introduction of detergents from many different things. The bottom line is that detergents are BAD for the environment among millions of other chemicals. Not washing vehicles that would drain into the storm sewers may seem a small thing in the overall scheme of things, but it is a place to start. I'm far from being a tree hugger environmentalist but one does not need to be a rocket surgeon to figure out that if everybody does even the littlest thing to clen up the mother earth that maybe things will begin to improve. Just my rambling thoughts.

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