Sleeping regulations (anti-sleeping regulations)

[kingofdahill]

If the fire service are performing a critical life safety mission how is it one has time for blissful slumber while ON DUTY? NOTHING productive that needs done? Predictable ZERO likelyhood of a call in the next 60 seconds? Then why is a career station needed? If you're asleep you're voting that you are not an essential service.[/QUOTE]


Dear *****,
The other guys may not want to start a war about paid VS. volunteer and neither do i but If you wanna start bashing the paid side of things you should look at why you are a volunteer. You wanna be one of us.you are so jealous that we have jobs that we love and you would love to have (other wise why would you volunteer)?? I know it gets lonely out there in Iowa watching the corn blow in the wind.You never thought about dozing off in the rocking chair outside the station waiting for that fire in the cornfield to come in??? come on who are you kidding?? Or are you the type who sits in the rig hoping and praying a leaf blows on the road the wrong way so you can respond. You corn Shucking bit**.

[craigsheets]

Okay, I know I am a Volunteer and I read the Career/Paid Forum to learn why we all can't get along. But the fact of the matter is that if you are working/on duty at night you should be able to sleep. I know there are no Vol. Companies that make their Vols stay awake all night while on duty. I don't get the reasoning behind Volunteers stiring the Sh*t pot with you guys. I just figured that since Volunteers work all day and sleep in their beds at home then the least a paid guy should be able to sleep while he is REQUIRED to be in the station for 24 hours. I just don't understand some people's reasoning behind getting the Sh*t pot stirred. Good luck on the sleeping issues with employeers.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Okay, I know I am a Volunteer and I read the Career/Paid Forum to learn why we all can't get along. But the fact of the matter is that if you are working/on duty at night you should be able to sleep. I know there are no Vol. Companies that make their Vols stay awake all night while on duty. I don't get the reasoning behind Volunteers stiring the Sh*t pot with you guys. I just figured that since Volunteers work all day and sleep in their beds at home then the least a paid guy should be able to sleep while he is REQUIRED to be in the station for 24 hours. I just don't understand some people's reasoning behind getting the Sh*t pot stirred. Good luck on the sleeping issues with employeers.

The only issue is with those striiring the pot for the sake of seeing what floats to the top!

I have a related story.. a friend of mine's department was going through some tough negotiaitions with the new City Manager of his community, who vowed to "get tough with the Fire Department". He ordered that the beds be taken out of the firehouse as "the taxpayers aren't paying for people to sleep" ....

It just so happened that the City Manager lived in my friend's district...

Since they were ordered to do something productive at night, they decided to drill and do hose evolutions... and just happened to choose the street the City Manager lived on, and he even had a hydrant right in front of his house!

Funny thing happened... the beds were placed back into the firehouse the very next day and the order rescinded...

[nyckftbl]

I have a related story.. a friend of mine's department was going through some tough negotiaitions with the new City Manager of his community, who vowed to "get tough with the Fire Department". He ordered that the beds be taken out of the firehouse as "the taxpayers aren't paying for people to sleep" ....

It just so happened that the City Manager lived in my friend's district...

Since they were ordered to do something productive at night, they decided to drill and do hose evolutions... and just happened to choose the street the City Manager lived on, and he even had a hydrant right in front of his house!

Funny thing happened... the beds were placed back into the firehouse the very next day and the order rescinded...

Geez Cap, youre getting forgettful in your old age. You posted this story in this thread already..lol

[Smoke20286]

LOL, he got ya there Cap

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

LOL, he got ya there Cap

Cranial flatulence affecting the portion of the brain that controls memory....

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!

[Station2Capt]

Capt. Gonz,

It is still a good story even the 2nd time around.

[LaFireEducator]

Here the "official" sleep time is after 8PM. Since the shift change occurs at 5PM and there is usually 2-3 hours of truck check in work and satellitte station/truck work assigned nightly to the 1 paid firefighter one, it wouldn't really be likely that you could go to bed much before that anyway. You must be up, showered and dressed by 730AM. There is no napping permitted during the day.
The 10-hour part-time daytime firefighter (M-F 8AM-6PM) is not permitted to sleep.

[LtLarry]

Your gonna love this. Shift starts 0700...check rigs then breakfast....Clean house/daily chores.....training/preplans/plug flushing/etc......1200 lunch......1300 Nap time (yes you heard it right nap time from 1300 till 1600 written into the contract.).....1600 Vocal alarm check and up from nap......work as needed.......start supper.......eat....clean kitchen......free time......beds again at 2200. Thats the rough schedual. Usually we try to have all our pressing business taken care of by 1200 and the rest of the day is yours. Personel can hit the bed anytime at the discretion of the Lt. BC's are cool about things so long as the work gets done.

[Naegling]

Your gonna love this. Shift starts 0700...check rigs then breakfast....Clean house/daily chores.....training/preplans/plug flushing/etc......1200 lunch......1300 Nap time (yes you heard it right nap time from 1300 till 1600 written into the contract.).....1600 Vocal alarm check and up from nap......work as needed.......start supper.......eat....clean kitchen......free time......beds again at 2200. Thats the rough schedual. Usually we try to have all our pressing business taken care of by 1200 and the rest of the day is yours. Personel can hit the bed anytime at the discretion of the Lt. BC's are cool about things so long as the work gets done.

LTLarry,

Can I get a copy of your contract? Were in negotiations right now, and I would love to see a siesta clause in our new contract. We spend almost all nights transferring patients from our little local "Emergency Access Hospital" to the regional money grubbing hospital. Were averaging 4-6 calls a night out of our main station... not much sleep going on there, even for our engine crew.

[firehat87]

No one has brought up the best argument: the recent study showing regular naps reduce the risk of heart disease. I don't have time to look for it right now, but given our problem with cardiac problems I'd say naps should be mandatory!

Our rules and regs say no one can lay down before 2100 except in cases where the lieutenant gives permission due to illness. No one follows that rule, it was written a long time before we started doing first responder work in the early 90's and just isn't realistic anymore.

[cellblock]

When I worked for the City of St Gabriel (La) FD we did 12 hour shifts. Days 0600-1800 hours and nights 1800-0600. Somewhere the Mayor decided that since we only did 12s we shouldn't be sleeping on duty. The day crew guys were expected to come on shift, do truck inspections, equiptment maintaince and the like. Come time for night shift the same was expected. The Mayor had us doing stuff like driving around in the trucks at night inspecting street lights, marking the location of burned out lights on maps and in the morning the street department got a list of the burned out lights to repair.
Then problems started when we had guys working for us after getting off shifts from other departments. The Chief started making exceptions for these part time FFs. Then exceptions were made for FFs working after getting off work from thier "regular" jobs such as construction or chemical plants.
So in a short time you had some guys allowed to clock in and then climb in the bed while others, like me, were supposed to stay awake and do the "make work" errands the Mayor and Chief came up with.
I could either find another "regular" job to do when off from the FD or get some sleep when I got home.
I chose sleep. I started turning off my pager when I got home so I could get (maybe) 6 hours in bed. The next thing I know I'm hearing complaints from members of the department that I wasn't running volunteer calls in my off time.
See, the trucks and buildings were owned by the Parish (county) and the VFD operated them. The Paid City FFs were recruted from the volunteer pool or signed up as members of the VFD when hired. So we were a dual paid/vollie FF and if we lived in the district were expected to work our regularly scheduled hours and when off to respond to calls and attend training as a volunteer.
"Where were you on that wreck we had today?" they'd ask.
"In bed sleeping since I can't sleep on duty." I'd reply.
At the meeting for my expulsion from the EIVFD it was brought up that members were unhappy that I was not running volunteer calls anymore. I pointed out that I had in fact run several calls as a vollie in the month before the meeting but this was just part of a larger S**tstorm I'd blown up in my final weeks.
After my expulsion I had to turn in my gear and couldn't drive any VFD vehicles or respond to any calls. The last week I worked as a City Firefighter were some of the easist hours I've ever worked. I'd show up at the station, clock in, watch TV and drink coffee then clock out 12 hours later. In between I updated my resume' and looked for another job. By the end of the week I had a new job and was at City Hall putting in my paperwork to quit.
As far as I know they are still working 12 hour shifts at the station. I'm not sure if they can sleep these days or if they still have to stay awake. If they do I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions made.

[FireMedic049]

Boo dang hoo. I'll give you a useful direct parallel for my time on active duty, Army. ...................

I don't quite see the "useful" or "parallel" aspects of this story to the discussion myself. After all, it is the military and they are known for "crazy" stuff like that.

If the fire service are performing a critical life safety mission how is it one has time for blissful slumber while ON DUTY? Well, if they are actually engaged in a "critical life safety mission" then they won't have time for sleep while on duty. Fortunately for many of us, we aren't occupied with calls every single minute of the shift. NOTHING productive that needs done? Sometimes YES! Besides, who determines what activities are/aren't "productive"? Predictable ZERO likelyhood of a call in the next 60 seconds? There's always the possibility of a call in the next 60 seconds, then again there's always the possibility of not having a call - depending on where you work . Then why is a career station needed? Well, for one faster response times, which for some calls can make a world of difference. If you're asleep you're voting that you are not an essential service. That's not even close to being true.

Now part of the problem with this situation is that many attempt to try and make direct comparisons between (in this case) fire service jobs and "real world" jobs when in all reality they aren't comparable in many ways.

I've had a few "real world" jobs along the way and in my experience, the employees are there specifically because there IS work to be done and they are being paid to DO that work. On the other hand, in many cases, the career firefighter is there not specifically because there IS work to be done, but rather because at some undetermined point in time somebody will need FD services and these employees are being paid to be READY to immediately respond and perform the needed work.

One more example of how these jobs aren't directly comparable.....for many jobs you generally are given a meal break in which you are not expected (nor potentially obligated) to perform your job tasks. In probably very few instances does the career firefighter actually get a true meal break in which they aren't required to perform their job tasks if a call were to come in.

[GASTOVERAT]

If a man can't work 10 or 14 hours with out going to sleep his mangina must be sore and swollen,and I don't see how this fragile person could fight a tash can fire let alone a house fire.Now 24 hour shifts are a different beast get your sleep when you can because you never know what the night brings.

[GASTOVERAT]

If you have to lay down and sleep on a 10 or 14 hour shift your mangina must be sore and swollen.How can a such a fragile person put out a trash can fire let alone fight a house fire,if they need that much rest?You might want to try flipping burgers for a living if staying awake 10 hours is to much for you.Now a 24 hour shift is a whole different beast you better get some sleep when you can because you never know what the night will bring.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

If you have to lay down and sleep on a 10 or 14 hour shift your mangina must be sore and swollen.How can a such a fragile person put out a trash can fire let alone fight a house fire,if they need that much rest?You might want to try flipping burgers for a living if staying awake 10 hours is to much for you.Now a 24 hour shift is a whole different beast you better get some sleep when you can because you never know what the night will bring.

You are another idiot with no fracking clue.

[dday05]

If a man can't work 10 or 14 hours with out going to sleep his mangina must be sore and swollen,and I don't see how this fragile person could fight a tash can fire let alone a house fire.Now 24 hour shifts are a different beast get your sleep when you can because you never know what the night brings.

Your MANGINA must be to sore to us spellcheck...

We don't catch to many TASH CAN fires over this way! Hmmm wonder if anyone else has?

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

I think his "mangina" is sore from hauling his "tash can" around the kitchen... his screen name reads to be "gas stove rat"... which tells me he's probably a dishwasher in a greasy spoon diner who dreams of riding the BRT!

[GASTOVERAT]

Yea gonzo you must be the idiot if you get gas stoverat from ga stoverat.You must be a heck of a firefighter if you can't pull a whole 10 hr shift with out laying down. might want to get some vagisil so you can make it.

[GASTOVERAT]

dday your are so smart catching that typo on the word trash,I guess you are so pround of your accomplishment that you forgot about the subject of the post.