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    Default Sleeping regulations (anti-sleeping regulations)

    I had been told before that it is a US Federal regulation that allows for a firefighter working 10 hour shifts or 14 hour shifts to be provided with sleeping quarters or the ability to sleep without city penalty.

    Anyone know this to be true? If so, please post or email me
    (Lfd_ff26@hotmail.com) where I can find the regulations or any that supports this issue. A friend of mine works as a paid firefighter and his city's fathers have suddenly taken interest (spurned on by the local spiteful volunteers) in firefighter sleeping habits while on night shift.

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    Default sleep time

    Sleep Time.

    The FLSA permits employers to exclude up to 8 hours from work time when shifts are exactly 24 consecutive hours (private sector) or more than 24 hours (public sector), as "sleep time." To permit a sleep time exclusion requires that there be an "agreement" with the employees. An employee who takes a job which has a sleep time exclusion in place will be deemed to have "agreed" to it. There must also be adequate sleeping facilities, and the employees must normally have the opportunity to obtain 5 hours of sleep. The 5 hours need not be consecutive, and if an employee does not have the opportunity to get at least 5 hours of sleep no sleep time exclusion is permitted. Any time during the sleep period when an employee is actually performing work must be counted as work time.

    This is from the FLSA web site. We work 24 hour shifts here and may sleep from 1200-1700 and from 2100-0630, call volume permitting.

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    Red face

    In my dept our official "rest period" is 2130 to 0715.It's called a rest period because if a run comes in,you get up and go.If it was called a sleep period or sleep time the city was afraid we'd try to get it into our contract as a time we wouldn't have to respond,because we were sleeping.At 0715 our dispatchers announce over the house speaker "the time is 7:15".That's our wake up call if anyone's still sleeping someplace.We have 16 firehouses.Our shifts change at 0800, we work 24 and 72.
    Last edited by len1582; 03-12-2004 at 04:42 PM.

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    WHAT??? You guys get to sleep on the job?
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
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    Default Re: Sleeping regulations (anti-sleeping regulations)

    Originally posted by JaySNJFF
    I had been told before that it is a US Federal regulation that allows for a firefighter working 10 hour shifts or 14 hour shifts to be provided with sleeping quarters or the ability to sleep without city penalty.

    Anyone know this to be true? If so, please post or email me
    (Lfd_ff26@hotmail.com) where I can find the regulations or any that supports this issue. A friend of mine works as a paid firefighter and his city's fathers have suddenly taken interest (spurned on by the local spiteful volunteers) in firefighter sleeping habits while on night shift.
    The key words here are "the local spiteful volunteers".

    Hypothetical question for the town fathers....

    Do the "spiteful volunteers" spend the whole night awake waiting for a call to come in?

    It sounds like bovine scat to me.

    A friend of mine has the same problem with his FD. The city manager ordered the beds taken out of the firehouse during a contract dispute. His company just happened to cover the city manager's neighborhood. Since they had nowhere to sleep... guess where they did a hose evolution drill at 00:00 hours?

    The beds were back the next day.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Default

    My guys have a "downtime" period from 2100-0630. PT and station duties in the morning and equipment and training up to 1800 depending on call volume. From 1800 to 2100 is dinner and relaxation time. The EMS guys work a different style shift (they are on a bus and not an engine). They have from 2200-0630 for sleep time, if a call interupts them they go back to hourly plus OT(if accrued). They receive a different rate of pay while sleeping than OTJ. They usually end up making the same as the engine co sometimes more. They usually respond with the engine unless it's a frequent nuisance alarm (service call or FACP trouble alarm). The same holds true for the engine- if EMS has a run requiring their"expertise". At the end of the day everybody is pretty happy with the setup.
    You can check it out at http://www.flsa.com/fire.html or switch the fire for paramedic.html that should give you plenty to read. As always someone will come along and find that someone is "sleeping" during "such a beautiful day" and stir the pot. The best thing to do is hit the bunkroom and not nap in the office or dayroom. Thats a sure fire disaster when the Commissioner strolls in.
    "If Prometheus was worthy of the wrath of heaven for kindling the first fire upon earth, how ought all the Gods to honour the men who make it their professional business to put it out?"
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    Ahhh...the brass,along with other prying eyes. This is a good reason to ensure the front door is closed & locked. All you need is to have 1 guy up & about,or in a recliner to listen up for the dept phone or a verbal to the front door. You could have been first due at a 3 story frame with fire on the 1st & 2nd floor,gone through 3 bottles,and saved a hamster all before lunch. But after a shower, I feel a little R & R is justified. Maybe it's just me. I'll take a "rest" over some culture at Lincoln Center.Stay Safe.

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    We swap shifts at 0800. From 0800-1200 we have "Department activites" and from 1200-1300 we have lunch. Power nap is generally permitted. 1300-1700 is again "Department activities". From 1700-0800 we are allowed to do whatever we please, within reason. Unwritten rules are that no one is in bed sleeping before 2200. Dozing off in a recliner before 2200 is allowed. We are also usually up and going before 0700. All of this is dependant upon run volume of the shift, of course.

    *Mark
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    Default Re: Re: Sleeping regulations (anti-sleeping regulations)

    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo

    A friend of mine has the same problem with his FD. The city manager ordered the beds taken out of the firehouse during a contract dispute. His company just happened to cover the city manager's neighborhood. Since they had nowhere to sleep... guess where they did a hose evolution drill at 00:00 hours?

    The beds were back the next day.

    Thats great!

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    Originally posted by E40FDNYL35
    WHAT??? You guys get to sleep on the job?
    The guys like it when I ride because we run all day long and sleep all night. The exception is the shift when we got up 6 times after midnight, oh and the tanker fire when we finally got to bed at 03:00 after standing in the rain for 5 hours waiting for the cleanup company.
    No longer an explorer, but I didn't wanna lose my posts.

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    Captain Gonzo, that is classic!! What a unique way to utilize their "up" time, doing a hose evolution on that very street - very innovative thinking. That is great...thanks for sharing that one...

    Stay Safe...

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    "Authorized" sleep hours for us are 1800-0645. I have a sub-station and I try to give my crew a little leeway, since we never know when we'll be up all night, and I'd rather have my troops somewhat rested when I need them as opposed to drop dead tired. So,,,,a 1200-1330 safety nap is something I'm a staunch believer in. Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays are free days, and once the truck and gear are squared away, they're free to saw logs all day if they like.

    Q6cap

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    no sleeping from 0700 to 2100, officially of course. Only drawback to sleeping is being suddenly awoken at 0300 with lights and bells while some guy is yelling an address and your position then having to quickly decide not only how to make the run and where the drivers seat is, but where the hell is the bunkroom door and then the stairs.

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    Our SOP reads: beds may be occupied between 2000-0700 and the company officer may make exceptions if increased call load is expected at night.
    So we pretty much sleep whenever as long as everything is done and the CO is ok with it.

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    Does Jerry's count go down every time a dead thread is revived?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk1171
    Our SOP reads: beds may be occupied between 2000-0700 and the company officer may make exceptions if increased call load is expected at night.
    So we pretty much sleep whenever as long as everything is done and the CO is ok with it.
    OK again...WHAT??? You guys get to sleep on the job?
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
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    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

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    We start at 0700. After 1600. We are on our own time until 0700. If a special drill or activity should occur after 1600, we do it. It is understood when these situations occur they are the exception, not the rule.
    IAFF-IACOJ PROUD

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    Our sops/sogs state that sleep time is from 2100 hrs -0700 hrs. In reality if you need a nap and your house work is done, take it. Your still expected to make training drills, and of course all calls. We tend to look after each other if someone is not feeling well or is on a double and had a rough night we'll look out for them so they can get some rest. It's expected that you only take what you need and don't be greedy. That's how it works at my station it all differs depending on the shift and the station though.

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    It appears that some of you are saying your compensation changes during the "sleep time". Is this accurate, and how in the world can that be permitted?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LFD2203
    It appears that some of you are saying your compensation changes during the "sleep time". Is this accurate, and how in the world can that be permitted?

    Yes it does...we get night differential, where we actually get an increase in our compensation!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    That's the beauty of straight dayworks....0600-1800. I sleep at home -

    Of course that little cat-nap after 1600 until shift change never hurts

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    Quote Originally Posted by JaySNJFF
    A friend of mine works as a paid firefighter and his city's fathers have suddenly taken interest (spurned on by the local spiteful volunteers) in firefighter sleeping habits while on night shift.
    you know, funny thing about this. you work a 10 or 14 hours shift. is it that unreasonable (from the point of view of the city's fathers, or the taxpayers who are paying your salaries) that you be doing something to benefit their city during the time that you are on the clock? I know you might be tired, but that is what the other 10 or 14 hours of the day (or night, depending on the shift). If you are too tired to do the job properly without sleeping, maybe you should call out sick that day?

    most jobs (non-emeregency related) would not permit you to sleep and get paid for it. why should firefighting be any different?

    24 hour shifts are a different ball game altogether.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrParasite
    you know, funny thing about this. you work a 10 or 14 hours shift. is it that unreasonable (from the point of view of the city's fathers, or the taxpayers who are paying your salaries) that you be doing something to benefit their city during the time that you are on the clock? I know you might be tired, but that is what the other 10 or 14 hours of the day (or night, depending on the shift). If you are too tired to do the job properly without sleeping, maybe you should call out sick that day?

    most jobs (non-emeregency related) would not permit you to sleep and get paid for it. why should firefighting be any different?

    24 hour shifts are a different ball game altogether.
    Your ignorance is astounding.

    You ask "what is the benefit"?

    How about an average of a 4 to 5 minute time from point of dispatch to arrival on scene with a first alarm response....even if we are in the rack!

    How about the same arrival tiime for MVA's, medicals, etc.

    The fact is... Firefighting is an emergency job, or are you too blind to see that?

    Fact: Altering sleep patterns constantly is not healthy and if continued causes more problems, ie, higher medical costs, lost time, etc.

    Fact: you do not sleep the same at the firehouse as you do at home in your own bed. The sound of tones, radios, scanners and phones are just background noise you try to adjust to. It's more like sleeping with one eye open or catnapping.

    Fact: the taxpayers don't give a fat rat's rump if I am wide awake in the middle of night catching up on run reports or snoozing away. What they care about is the response they get for their 911 emergency, whether it is real or a perception in their minds.

    For those mutts who would complain...

    I would offer them a week living in the firehouse, so they could see the slow times, the busy times and the absolutely insanity of "running your arse off from one end of town to the other times". Let them sit down to a meal and have it interrupted once, twice or more. See how long they last...

    PS: the private paramedics riding the bone out of the hospital have their own little snooze area in the hospital. So if they work a 10 and 14 shift, should they stay up all night, too?
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 12-31-2005 at 04:48 PM.
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    Right on Captain Gonzo!!!

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    Dr. Parisite,

    You know Gonzo is right.....I'm not sure what you do for a living but it obviously can't be in the emergency services because as he said your ignorance not only astonishing is very obvious.

    Until I recentley transferred I was assigned to straight Night Works from 1800hrs. to 0600hrs. - I worked alone as a paid driver in a volunteer station. After my assigned chores and dinner I was pretty much at my own free will. Now I did not use the sleeping quarters {No alerting system in the rooms and too far from the apparatus floor} but I'd doze in the TV room in a recliner until we got a run or shift change.

    I don't think you quite understand the fact that by human nature {and age for some of us aging fellows} that when it's 2am and you're watching re-runs on QVC you're gonna drift off. Besides it's not like we're working at NASA or something like that where if we're asleep the nation's security would be affected. -- And with out a shadow of a doubt if you were a Career Firefighter and you had the oppurtunity to sleep you can't tell me you wouldn't.

    On a final note Yes I have transferred to another station where I work from 6am to 6pm with a great rotating schedule allowing me off every other weekend so now I sleep at home but I do feel for my fellow brothers oout there who still work night tours.....they should catch a nap when possible.

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