1. #1
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    Default Wildland PPE SOG

    I am in the process for reviewing and updating our departments SOGs and would like some input.

    Does your department have a minimum PPE for woods fires?

    Does your department offer wildland gear instead of structural firefighting gear for woods fires?
    Last edited by Vollie4life; 03-08-2004 at 10:23 AM.

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    We're issued a set of wildland gear in addition to our structural gear. Jacket and pants are from Barrier-Wear and are Nomex. Helmet is a Bullard full-brim brush helmet with the full shroud (the one that wraps around the front of your neck) and ESS goggles. Gloves can either be wildland gloves or structure gloves.

    We're also issued two long-sleeve t-shirts for brush calls which are embroidered rather than screen printed like the short-sleeve station shirts. Nomex pants must also be worn under the brush pants...either our navy blue station pants, or many members have the green USFS issue pants they've picked up on incidents.

    Boots and webgear (except the shelter, which is issued) are purchased by the member. We're issued a pair of station boots and those are acceptable for brush calls per the department, but most members buy their own pair of Chippewas or Whites.
    Chris Gaylord
    Emergency Planner / Fire Captain, UC Santa Cruz FD

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    our deparment does not have the money to purchase wild land gear. but the cheif said the absoult minium is our helment, bunker pants, and bunker boots.
    IF YOU FOLLOW ALL OF THE RULES YOU MISS ALL OF THE FUN.

    Moose (Post 2028 Vice President/ Command Officer)Explorer Highland Twp. Fire/Rescue Dept.

    Any Questions Contact Me At Moose20282@yahoo.com

    These Are My Opinions, Not that of My Dept. or Any other Orgnazition I Belong to.

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    Our department is in the process of ordering gear. We are going with the Indura coated cotton (Yes it is heavier then Nomex but a hell of lot lighter then the structural sets). We are also going to the Danner boots. As of now structual helmets and gloves are what will be used to complete the protection. We also have full Morning Pride Structural sets with Servus boots.

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    Default wildland ppe

    Our department is using the Indura coveralls. While they are heavier than the Nomex, you stay cooler in them . They also double as extrication gear. We are issued the green leather wildland gloves ( unsure of manufacturer), but they tend to shrink and harden after use, so most members prefer to use regular leather gloves. Brands of boots vary among members, dept. will purchase the brand preferred by the individual. As far as headgear, only simple hard-hat is required, some guys wear structure helmet, but I believe it gets too hot here in summer for that. Also issued googles to protect eyes.
    We fight our brush fires with water, and are never more than a few steps away from the truck, so no use in carrying a pack. If it is a large brush / grass fire, BLM usually promptly shows up and sends all other departments home so they can do their thing. We don't do too much shovel work.

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    Our department presently has no wildland gear. We are about to order a few sets of wildland coveralls to be used for wildland firefighting and when working accidents, directing traffic etc.
    Does everyone like the Indura cotton over the Nomex? One thing I insist on is that everyone wears a helmet, all we have are structural helmets which are way heavy! I've had two dead trees fall within feet of myself and it skeeeeerd me to death. (My father was killed when a large tree limb fell on him).
    Please please please protect yourself!
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    "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

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    Default Starting point...

    Check out this site...www.fire.ca.gov

    California has a lot to offer in terms of wildland...
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 03-09-2004 at 01:07 PM.

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    We currently issue each member a set of Western Shelter systems wildland ppe along with the structural gear. Boots and gloves are up to the individual member to provide themselves, and we just bought bullard full brim wildland helmets for everyone. My personal opinion, and that of the Rangers who teach wildland fire suppression in our area is that regular structural fire gear is a liability to wear at wildland incidents due to heat stress issues. If You don't have a set of wildland gear a pair of 100% cotton blue jeans, long sleeve cotton shirt (no screen printing), leather boots, gloves, and helmet are better than structural gear. Oh yeah, and speaking from experience, try to avoid steel toed/shanked boots, the metal holds the heat and can be very uncomfortable at the least, and can burn your feet if they get too hot.

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    i would agree with moose i am on a rural vfd where we are constantly called to them and we are only required by our dept to wear pants boots and helmets. we havent had any problems with that so far

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    Our dept issues Red Coveralls....So we don't mix em up with our Blue Medical Covies...Wildland Helmets..I got goggles,while others have safety glasses...And you can wear your structural boots or can have your own..I use my zipper-up station style boots

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    Wildfire is by far our biggest threat and type of fire here in Montana. We have a lot of interface and fires seem to be burning hotter every year due to fuel buildup. An explosive situation.

    We put a LOT of emphais on our wildland program, and 90% of the calls that we go to are wildland, which can range from a few hours long... to in the extream cases months. We get paid for the long ones.

    Up until this year we used the standard USFS green nomex pants and yellow shirt, bullard or MSA hard hat, those white prison made USFS issue work gloves, smoke jumper made linepacks, and wildfire boots made by either white or some such company. Light nomex shroud mounted on the helmets.

    We basicly looked like this, your standard USFS issue pulaski motor.


    It is decent PPE, and great for handcrews, but we are a VFD that operates 90% of the time off of brush trucks with pump and roll and we make a lot of last stands with structure protection. We decided we wanted gear that offered more protection, was quicker to get on, offered more pockets, and that would set us apart from the army of green and yellow that decends MT every summer.

    We went with western Shelter PPE. Very VERY nice.

    Our new wildland issue PPE is (top to bottom):

    Phenix 1500 helmet, we use these for both wildland and structure now, most comfortable helmet we have ever tried.

    Ultra Shroud made from carbon X.

    Hot Shield mad from Carbon X.

    Westner Shelter Interface jacket made from Kakie Advance (60% Kevlar and 40% Nomex, or visa versa)

    Western Shelter overpants, same as above.

    Fireman VIII gloves, same gloves for structure.

    Still White or other fire fighter boots.

    I will take a picture tonite and post it, this is without a doubt the best wildland PPE money can buy.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
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    Default 2 more cents...

    SamsonFCDES- Glad you love the Phenix bro. Thanks for
    the word.

    I did some research for you and found what I think is
    one of the best makers of wildland PPE- PGI, Inc. Here
    is their contact info.-

    PGI, Inc
    550 Commercial Avenue
    Green Lake, WI 54941
    800-558-8290

    Looking at the above picture. (thanks for sharing too)
    I remember that those USFS issued shirts are THIN. I
    would recommend purchasing something thicker from PGI.

    Also, I have been doing wildland for awhile and do not
    claim to be some expert but I am not big on tucking in
    my wildland shirt into my pants. For the reason that
    embers and flying debris can get caught in there.

    I have always worn my wildland shirt on the outside
    of my pants. Pretty much the same concept of your
    structural gear.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 03-09-2004 at 01:22 PM.

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    Default Re: 2 more cents...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    SamsonFCDES- Glad you love the Phenix bro. Thanks for
    the word.


    Some of the comments you have made about them on this forum is what got us to first try them. We used to have bullard wildland hats and bullard structure helmets, but we have dontated all of those and went with Phenix 1500s. Haveing only one helmet to worry about is nice, and haveing the extra protection when working around snags and in structure protection is very nice.

    Looking at the above picture. (thanks for sharing too)
    I remember that those USFS issued shirts are THIN. I
    would recommend purchasing something thicker from PMI.
    It is light nomex, IIRC only 6 once or less. Nice to work in all day, but when you are being attacked by intense fire, I want something more substantial.

    Our new PPE, made from advance, is the same outer shell as our structure gear, only minus the thermal and mousture barriers.

    It is not that hot realy, and it DOES offer far greater protection, we have been doing some tests. IIRC with the old USFS style nomex you can take something like 800 degrees for 5+or- seconds without significant injury. I am not sure what our new stuff does, but it is far beyond that, we can tell already.

    Also, I have been doing wildland for awhile and do not
    claim to be some expert but I am not big on tucking in
    my wildland shirt into my pants. For the reason that
    embers and flying debris can get caught in there.

    I have always worn my wildland shirt on the outside
    of my pants. Pretty much the same concept of your
    structural gear.
    I dont like people tucking in their shirts. It traps your body heat worse. It IMO is much cooler and more comfortable to have your shirt untucked and let some air up under it. Anything that can reduce heat stress is the way to go.

    I also HATE coveralls or one piece suites. IMO they are much hotter then 2 piece PPE. Also, your freedome of movement at the arms is worse IMO. When you raise your arms, you are lifting all of your coveralls with them.

    I will make sure to get a picture of our new PPE and post it, it is truely awsome.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    In Australia we typically use FR Cotton (Proban or Indura)brush jackets and overpants. Coveralls are also used by diehards like myself who prefer them. These are typically about 9 or 11 oz/yard2 material which is lot more than nomex which runs at 6 or 7.5 oz/yard2. Although heavier it breathes better and when working in the interface with high radient heat loads it is a lot more comparable to structure gear in terms of radient heat protection than thin nomex shirts etc. However on the downside, Proban is not as durable as nomex and needs to have care taken in following washing instructions to fully maintain it's FR rating. - Peter.

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