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  1. #1
    Junior Member tim5ny's Avatar
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    Default The Iaff Nominates Liberal Scum Again!

    Once again our fearless leaders of the IAFF have endorsed a liberal democrat without giving the members of the union a voice in the matter. Perhaps they feel that we,re just the little guys who don,t know what,s good for them... so they have to decide for us. Well, I don,t know about you guys, but I and many of my fellow firefighter co-workers... who PAY the salaries of our union heads at the IAFF..are sick and tired of not having a vote in how OUR union endorses a candidate. First it was Bill Clinton, and now it,s that flaming communist Kerry. We need to remind the overpaid union heads just who it is they work for. Every paycheck my union dues go out to pay the salaries of these arrogant, good for nothing scammers. The Clintons and the Kerrys will say anything to get elected. Our union heads are fools for falling for the lies over and over again. Every member of the IAFF should question as to why you didn,t have a say in how YOUR union endorses a presidential candidate.


  2. #2
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    CLICK HERE

    tim5ny Welcome... This topic is being discussed in this FORUM.
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  3. #3
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    tim5ny

    Whoever the IAFF endorses (and they have endorsed both Democrats and Republicans in elections on all levels of government), the person pulling the lever, punching the chad, filling in the arrow or marking the X in the box is you... in the privacy of the voting booth. Vote for GWB, vote libertarian, vote for Lyndon Larouche if that floats your boat!

    The IAFF is more than "endorsements" ...look at your pay, your benefits, health and safety issues that the so called "scammers" bust their butts on to keep us safe. Look at the work for the Burn Foundation, MDA and other charities that the IAFF supports on the local, state and national level.

    If you feel that strongly... may I suggest you leave the Union (that is, if you are a member to begin with!)
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 03-11-2004 at 08:35 AM.
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  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Default

    Once again our fearless leaders of the IAFF have endorsed a liberal democrat without giving the members of the union a voice in the matter. Perhaps they feel that we,re just the little guys who don,t know what,s good for them... so they have to decide for us. Well, I don,t know about you guys, but I and many of my fellow firefighter co-workers... who PAY the salaries of our union heads at the IAFF..are sick and tired of not having a vote in how OUR union endorses a candidate. First it was Bill Clinton, and now it,s that flaming communist Kerry. We need to remind the overpaid union heads just who it is they work for. Every paycheck my union dues go out to pay the salaries of these arrogant, good for nothing scammers. The Clintons and the Kerrys will say anything to get elected. Our union heads are fools for falling for the lies over and over again. Every member of the IAFF should question as to why you didn,t have a say in how YOUR union endorses a presidential candidate.
    I agree with Gonz. I question wether or not you are a member tim5.

    You say the IAFF leaders are fools for endorsing Kerry. Explain to me who they should have endorsed and why.

    I know how my union endorses candidates. They base their judgements on firefighter and labor issues. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

    If you have a problem with a labor organization doing what labor organizations do, stop paying dues to the organization.

    You most likely won't do that though. Nor will you become an active participant in your local, state, or the international organization.

    It is too easy to sit back and complain about everything than to actually get off your half-moon and do something.
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  5. #5
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Default

    Gentlemen,

    please move the conversation to the other threads on this subject. That is where they have been initiated and should remain. We haev enough dscussion there to not need a third one.

    BTW, Duff. You just bowed out of two of these threads - don't go getting into a third one. You'll just end up pulling out your hair.
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  6. #6
    Junior Member tim5ny's Avatar
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    Default

    Lol! Like I,d even care about this subject if I weren,t a member of the IAFF. I will not stop paying dues, nor leave the union, but when the IAFF sells shirts, pendants, and other merchandise that says "Firefighters for Kerry".. why don,t they take a vote from their members to see how they feel about the candidate. Also.. give me some examples of Republicans that the IAFF has endorsed?? Since you said it.. there must be some names! There,s a political agenda at the head of the union. If you think that selecting Bush or some other non-liberal would be career suicide, then they have you right where they want you.... just a lemming.. following the blind. If you care about the big picture.. and can take your eyes off your paycheck, then vote for the Clintons and the Kerrys. If you,re a firefighter who likes action... then Kerry,s your man! I just hope you,re well trained in WOMD and chemical and bio weapons because national defense is not an important issue with him.

  7. #7
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    tim5ny,

    Of course the IAFF leadership has a political agenda. Harold S--tburger wants a Cabinet position in the Kerry Administration...haha, the Kerry Administration, now there is a long shot.

    If S--tburger becomes Secretary of Labor, he can push the issue of Collective Bargaining, FLSA Issues such as the one in Montgomery County and other pro-union issues. Basically things that make Local Jurisdictions become more dependant on the Federal Government. Let's face it, Collective bargaining can become expensive for a Local Government, so the less they deal with the issue of CB, the better off they are. If they get into CB, it begins to cost them alot of money to pay out the things negotiated because of CB and then they need help from the State and Federal Government, thus increasing dependance on the feds. And everyone knows, Socialist Democrats love it when you have to depend on the government. Tax and Spend Liberals want you to pay higher taxes and have the Govt provide for your every whim. The less independant you are, the more control they have over you. Socialism looks great on paper, but if it were so great, China wouldn't be resorting to Capitalism to save their economy.

    Democrats= Socialism= Communism= Poverty and Despitism.

    Just say NO to JFK2 in November 2004.

    John "F--king" Kerry, Tsar of the Liberal Northeast.

  8. #8
    Junior Member tim5ny's Avatar
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    Default

    Well said Tillerman! Us little folk can,t make decisions for ourselves! Only people like Kerry and Hillary Clinton know what,s best for us. California is America,s example of liberalism at work. They just took out a loan for over 10 billion to try and bail them out. You,re also right about China. It doesn,t work! I can,t believe that blind sheep would willingly walk into the slaughterhouse by electing leaders like this... but it will happen because America has forgotten what has made it great. The next president that we elect in the likes of Bill Clinton will drastically speed up the degredation and downfall of America. When a leader can,t see that the best deterrant to war is a strong military, then we,re screwed.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Originally posted by tim5ny
    Lol! Like I,d even care about this subject if I weren,t a member of the IAFF. I will not stop paying dues, nor leave the union, but when the IAFF sells shirts, pendants, and other merchandise that says "Firefighters for Kerry".. why don,t they take a vote from their members to see how they feel about the candidate. Also.. give me some examples of Republicans that the IAFF has endorsed?? Since you said it.. there must be some names! There,s a political agenda at the head of the union. If you think that selecting Bush or some other non-liberal would be career suicide, then they have you right where they want you.... just a lemming.. following the blind. If you care about the big picture.. and can take your eyes off your paycheck, then vote for the Clintons and the Kerrys. If you,re a firefighter who likes action... then Kerry,s your man! I just hope you,re well trained in WOMD and chemical and bio weapons because national defense is not an important issue with him.
    Kerry's been in the Senate for how long?

    In that time, what legislation has he authored/propsed/sent to the floor of the senate that is firefighter friendly?
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  11. #11
    Forum Member stm4710's Avatar
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    I think what tim's complaient is that the IAFF didnt ask its membership before endorseing the Kies....errr....Kerry.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Default

    Lol! Like I,d even care about this subject if I weren,t a member of the IAFF. I will not stop paying dues, nor leave the union, but when the IAFF sells shirts, pendants, and other merchandise that says "Firefighters for Kerry".. why don,t they take a vote from their members to see how they feel about the candidate.
    No matter who the IAFF chose to endorse there would be thousands of members angry because their candidate was not endorsed.



    Also.. give me some examples of Republicans that the IAFF has endorsed??
    It wasn't me who said it, but it is true. Off the top of my head I believe Rep. Weldon of PA has been supported by the IAFF. In my home state of IL, our state organization is currently endorsing over forty republican legislative candidates.

    The fact is the IAFF is a labor organization. The majority of republicans consistently vote anti-labor. The IAFF supports pro firefighter and pro labor candidates. tim5, you are a member of organized labor. Just what aspects of organized labor do you support? Since you have stated you won't withdraw from the union, they must be doing some things you favor. What are they?


    Sorry Sharkie, I can't help myself.
    Last edited by Duffman; 03-11-2004 at 01:50 PM.
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  13. #13
    Junior Member tim5ny's Avatar
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    All due respect gentlemen, I didn,t come to argue. Thanks for your replies. This thread has gone bad, and whoever said that any candidate chosen would make some angry is correct. You may be right in stating that the Republicans have voted anti-labor, and that is something I am unaware of if it,s true... but I have such a hard time trusting Kerry after Clinton.

  14. #14
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
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    It makes no sense at all to attack your own brothers and sisters. We as a local did not agree with the IAFF stance in 2000, and chose to do something about it. We as a local took a vote and backed Bush/Cheney. Does that mean that we have no use for the IAFF? Not at all.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    All due respect gentlemen, I didn,t come to argue. Thanks for your replies. This thread has gone bad, and whoever said that any candidate chosen would make some angry is correct. You may be right in stating that the Republicans have voted anti-labor, and that is something I am unaware of if it,s true... but I have such a hard time trusting Kerry after Clinton.
    I am "whoever".

    I suggest you look at the title you gave this thread. Did you expected everyone here to jump on your bandwagon?

    What did you come here for? Sorry if you are offended by my response, but you set the tone with your inflammatory titleing of the thread.

    I just asked a simple question. What aspects of organized labor do you support? You are adamant that you will not leave the union. Why are you a member?
    Last edited by Duffman; 03-11-2004 at 05:14 PM.
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  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    I am glad that I am not in an union.

    I like to speak for myself and I dont appreciate others speaking/thinking for me.

    Do you HAVE to be in the IAFF if you department is unionized?

    Never been around that sort of stuff, I dont know of any unions that exist in my area.
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  17. #17
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    Default red scare

    did some one really say "flaming communist"?!
    read a history book, man. organized labor is a socialist concept by definition. don't be scared of it. socialist/communist/anarchist workers organizing, fighting and dying at the beginning of the 20th century is why you have overtime pay, why you can afford to send your kids to the doctor when their sick, why you get 200 days a year to spend with your family, why you get compensated if you get hurt on the job, why your job is safer, and better compensated than your grandfather's. it's your responsibility to yourself to support it. not blindly, but actively. vote however you want to in a voting booth, but the union will still suggest you do what's best for you "as a firefighter". that's what you pay for.
    also, kerry is politically so far from the true left that its almost laughable to even call him liberal. he's a political centrist. only in comparison to the increasingly authoritarian tenedencies of post 911 government is kerry even relatively left wing. don't kid yourself.

  18. #18
    Junior Member tim5ny's Avatar
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    Labor unions like the IAFF have gotten me great wages, good health insurance, a twenty year retirement if I so choose, along with the 384E package. It has given me job security against any person or persons discriminatory actions against me, wheather they be personal, religious, skin color, etc. Labor unions protect me against ******* fire chiefs who think they,ve become God the minute they put the white shirt on. Okay..I,ve stated the reasons that I am happy to be in a labor union. But I don,t think we,d lose any of that with a president who believes that national security is the number 1 priority in todays world... and the only logical choice in that matter is certainly not the liberal, socialistic, choice that our union leaders have taken a stance with. My issue is this: if the union wants to be political... then why don,t the members of that union decide together who is the right choice.. not only for our careers, but for the good and safety of this country.

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    Sure national security is a top priority. We have gotten a lot of WMD training and equipment in the last couple years. But who's going to be around to use it? In Michigan we are constantly being threatened with budget cuts because of cuts in revenue sharing. Bugdet cuts are "trickling down" to local municipalities. Many departments have closed stations and firefighters are being cut. The IAFF has chosen to endorse Kerry because they think he is the better choice for firefighters. It still means you have the choice to vote for the candidate of your choice.

  20. #20
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
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    Sorry Sharkie, I can't help myself.
    I tried brother. We may disagree politically but I know you will throw your hands up and throw in the towel here. You bring well thought out posts, but much of what you say is not interpreted properly or ignored so you just have to ga AHHHHHHHHHHH. I was trying to save you some heartache bud. Better luck with the self control next time

    In the mean time, the IAFF has supported numerous Republicans, though by and large most "union friendly" candidates are Dems and that is who they support, as it is their job to inofrm others of the views, however I do feel a union should advise their members adn have the majority vote on who to support. And you are right everyone will be ticked one way or the other, but at least they had a voice as individual members.

    also, kerry is politically so far from the true left that its almost laughable to even call him liberal.
    ROTFLMAO. You obviously do not live in Massachusetts. Go tho his web site http://www.johnkerry.com Read his stance on positions adn then tell me he is not a very far left liberal - abortion, affirmative action, taxes, military, social services, etc. BTW - no democrat from Massachusetts that I know of could EVER be construed as a centrist. To an extent this will hurt him a lot in the more conservative states and regions.

    Do you HAVE to be in the IAFF if you department is unionized?
    No you do not. You do have to pay an "agency fee" in whcih you pay a percentage of dues to the union because with teh exception of the union protection, you do receive the bay and benefits that the union negotiated for the members of the department, to this point I agree. You do receive benefits from the union's negotiations so you should pay for PART of that. To force you to become a union member is illegal and has been challenged in court numerous times.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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