1. #1
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    Default driving POV guidelines

    Do any of your departments have written SOPs, SOGs or what ever you call them...procedures for driving your POV with lights and siren to the station. We dont on the WTFD, we just give them some basic verbal guidelines and I feel that is wrong. I personally dont use them on my POV and I have followed some of our members down the road to the station and would easily say they were drivin 60 mph plus down a 35 mph road. That ticks me off and I usually say something to them and give them a verbal warning, but its hard to back any possible further disipline without some guidlines to back me. Twice I was told the excuse "well nobody ever told me". I kind of take the blame for that in a way because I'm one of the department chiefs and I'm the one who can fix it. After reading all the horror stories about volunteers crashing their POV's on calls I need to do something. We have a ton of new young FF's who Im sure are very excited when a call comes in, and with their adrenalin Im sure they really dont realize their driving that fast.

    Anyway, enough of my ramblin', if you guys have any formal written guideines on this matter, can you get me a copy.

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    730,
    See 200 or let me know .........when we re-did our SOG's last year we really got them ship shape and include a whole section on driving....we certainly dont need to read about anyone getting greased by one of us going on a call........also in FH Mag this month another good chapter about expressways by Ron Moore.
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Ours says that you must respond with "Due Regard to Public Safety". Mainly because we did have alot of rule about everything including Speed limit to responding. Our department lawyers told us to remove it ....because by dictating to personnel how fast they can drive while responding makes the department financially responsible if you get into a crash and you exceeded the limit.
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    I didnt think MOE could get 0-60 between his house and your station . We are in the process of reviewing our guidelines but I will give Moe a copy when he comes back to work Tuesday and you can do what you want with them. They are pretty genaric.
    Les Hartford
    Assistant Chief
    LMR Fire Dept.

    The views posted here are strickly my own and not of any of the groups I am affiliated with.

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    We are redoing our SOG/SOP in the city. If possible, can you all e-mail me what you have. Thanks!!!

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    Ron, I will get you a copy of ours.

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    Default Emergency Response in POV's

    Their are two themes here:
    1. Whether volunteers should hae red lights & sirens on their POV's. That's a bid debate, but I don't think that's your key issue. Ohio law permits it. My personal perspective after 20+ years is that they can be a big help - shaving minutes off of response time.
    2. What are appropriate SOG's for a department to use. Here are some suggestions:
    a. Avoid specific limits like "only x miles per hour above the posted speed limit" Larry Bennett, a retired FF/EMT and attorney from the Cincinnati area has mentioned cases where a department was found liable when a driver was within the law but outside of an SOG like that.
    b. Have the SOG's require compliance with Ohio law. That includes the "due regard" issue.
    c. Require all volunteer POV's with lights & siren to display the current sticker from the fire marshal's office and to go through the annual inspection.
    d. document counseling and discipline for problem drivers.
    e. consider a probationary period for new volunteers before they are permitted to have red lights & sirens.
    f. Consider regular safe driving classes. Several options include the Coaching the Emergency Vehicle Operator class from the National Safety Council or the VFIS course. The highway patrol will also come and speak about emergency driving laws. Do as they say and not as they do - the troopers often will violate traffic laws without lights & sirens on.
    Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.

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    Default you don't need SOGs to administer discipline

    You will need to have your law director review these prior to
    enacting them. Good luck. We had a commitee of officers spend a lot of time to put our SOGs together. They need some rework, but they are pretty inclusive.

    Talk to your law director. If you are a city/village department then the village attorney will need to review it. If you are a township department then an assistant from your counties prosecutor's office is the township's legal advisor.

    The law director for our village at the time we wrote our SOGs told us that "you might as well wipe your *** with these" and tossed his copy in the trash after he looked them over. We're not alone in this. Kinda a catch 22. Our insurance carrier (Ohio Risk Management) requires this SOG book. The attorney won't sign off on it.

    Being unpaid volunteers, he said their are things that a vollie can come against us for, Sexual Harassment, Libel, Slander, etc. You can discipline a vollie, with or without a rule book.

    DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT

    Tell him/her about what you feel has been done wrong. Explain that Lights and siren, even on department vehicles, do not, under Ohio Revised Code, give you free reign to drive like an idiot. Document the verbal warning. If you have to take further actions, document that. Talk to this person in front of a witness, ie another officer or a LEO or something.

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    WTFDChief730 :Anyway, enough of my ramblin', if you guys have any formal written guideines on this matter, can you get me a copy.


    mail your mailing address to me at mohican44@hotmail.com, I'll send a copy of our SOGs

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    Default

    Thanks guys for your help and input on this, we have something in the works for a new SOG on this matter, should have it done in a couple weeks.

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    Chief, We are in the process of looking at our driving SOG's. We are a combination department with the part-paid responding to the stations without lights and sirens. If you could e-mail me a copy of your new SOG's I would like to take a look at it before we rewrite ours.
    Thanks, Jeff
    jkowalski@sylvaniatownshipfire .com

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    Quote Originally Posted by axman16
    Chief, We are in the process of looking at our driving SOG's. We are a combination department with the part-paid responding to the stations without lights and sirens. If you could e-mail me a copy of your new SOG's I would like to take a look at it before we rewrite ours.
    Thanks, Jeff
    jkowalski@sylvaniatownshipfire .com
    Holy Toledo, Batman........ The Sylvania folks are movin in!!!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by firenresq77
    Holy Toledo, Batman........ The Sylvania folks are movin in!!!!!!!
    First Lake Township then Sylvania Township........

    Who is next????? Perrysburg Township??

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    Quote Originally Posted by PFD109NFD107
    First Lake Township then Sylvania Township........

    Who is next????? Perrysburg Township??
    Could be?!?!?!?
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

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    Doesn't the state have guidlines on driving already in which we have to follow? Than it is up to your Dept to us these or make them more stringent.

  16. #16
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    with all this newness it's like it used to be here in the Buckeye forum.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Weruj1
    with all this newness it's like it used to be here in the Buckeye forum.
    You're right........ There's actual activity in here!!!!!
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by axman16
    Chief, We are in the process of looking at our driving SOG's. We are a combination department with the part-paid responding to the stations without lights and sirens. If you could e-mail me a copy of your new SOG's I would like to take a look at it before we rewrite ours.
    Thanks, Jeff
    jkowalski@sylvaniatownshipfire .com
    Jeff, here's the SOG that we came up with:
    http://www.wtfd.net/redbook/sog43.html

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