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View Poll Results: Does your department have hydranted areas where the water pressure is inadequate?

Voters
28. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, All of our hydranted areas have inadequate pressure.

    2 7.14%
  • Yes, SOME of our hydranted areas have inadequate pressure.

    16 57.14%
  • No, NONE of our hydranted areas have inadequate pressure.

    8 28.57%
  • No hydrants exist in my departments response area.

    2 7.14%
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Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    Question Water Pressure Problems

    I am researching problems with fire hydrants supplying adequate water pressure in water systems and would really appreciate it if everyone would take a few minutes and answer these questions for me. Please answer these questions completely, and to the best of your knowledge as the answers will be compiled into a research report for a college class I am taking.

    Thanks Everyone!

    1. Is your town, district, county, etc. completely hydranted?

    2. If NO, Are there areas of your town that are hydranted?

    3. Does your department experience inadequate water pressure in certain areas of your town, district, etc?

    4. Are there certain parts of the area protected by your department where tankers are automatically dispatched when the call comes in for a structure fire?

    5. Does your department utilize mutual aid from multiple departments for "tanker shuttles" in these areas OR any hydranted/unhydranted areas of your district? (Please specify which one you mean)

    6. Is your water system capable of supporting a 1500 gpm pumper at a working structure fire?

    7. What is your department's average turn around time for tankers in your tanker shuttle?

    8. How many tankers can your department depend on responding for tanker shuttle operations at a confirmed working structure fire?

    9. Has your engine ever run out of water while drafting in a hydranted area of your district while operating on a working structure fire?

    10. If YES, how long did it take for a tanker to arrive and dump it's load before your interior crews had water again?

    11. Does your department face this problem frequently in hydranted areas of your response area?

    12. Has your department ever lost a structure due to running out of water and having to wait on a tanker to return to the scene in a hydranted area?

    13. Has the lack of a sufficient water supply been the result of the loss of someone's home, business, etc. in your district in the last 6 months?

    14. If YES, about how many structures have been lost?

    15. Has your engineer come over the radio while you are inside fighting active fire and said "YOU'RE OUT OF WATER!" to you in the last 6 months?

    16. If YES, about how many times has this occurred?

    17. Do you have any ideas on how to solve this problem in your area? If YES, please elaborate.

    18. Does your department have any solutions to this problem at this time? If YES, please elaborate.

    19. How many tankers does your department currently operate?

    20. How many gallons of water will each tanker hold?

    21. What is the make up of your department's primary response area?

    22. Has your department ever had to request a 2nd alarm for more tankers to assist in a tanker shuttle while fighting a working fire?

    23. What do you estimate your department's 2004 fiscal operating budget to be?

    24. Does your department have full time personnel on duty at your fire stations? If YES, How many?

    25. Has a firefighter on your department ever died or incurred serious injury as a result of your engine running out of water while a crew was still operating inside?

    26. Can your water pressure problem be corrected by having the water department boost the pressure in the area(s) of your district in question?

    27. How many structure fires, car fires, brush fires, etc. does your department average per month?

    28. Of these fires, how many have been in a hydranted area with inadequate pressure?

    29. Does your department color code hydrants based on water flow by either painting the tops of them to NFPA standards or marking them on maps located in your trucks, stations, etc?

    30. How many hydrants do you estimate there are in your district?

    31. Of the hydrants in your district, how many are currently fully functional and able to supply a 1500 gpm pumper flowing at 100% capacity?

    32. How many hydrants are there in your town, district, etc. which are only able to provide 999 gallons per minute or less?
    (NFPA color code ORANGE: 500-999 gpm; and NFPA color code RED: 0-499 gpm)

    33. How many hydrants in your town, district, etc. are able to flow 1000 gpm and up?
    (NFPA color code GREEN: 1000-1499 gpm; and NFPA color code BLUE: 1500 gpm & up)

    34. What is your department's estimated average response time and turnout to a reported working structure fire?

    35. What do you estimate the average water pressure to be in your hydrant system?

    I just want to thank you all so much in advance for taking the time to answer these questions. Getting a wide and large response on this will help me out extremely and I just want you all to know that I appreciate the effort.

    I may post more questions on this later and would appreciate those of you who answer my first list of questions check back in a few weeks to see if some more questions have been posted.

    THANKS!
    LREngine135
    Firefighter/EMT-B


    All things I say...while not always making sense are ALWAYS my opinion and only mine. They do not reflect the opinions of any department of which I am a member.


  2. #2
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    1-yes
    2-n/a
    3-yes
    4-no
    5-we have auto aid ........no tankers
    6-in some areas.......all our pumps are 1250gpm
    7-n/a
    8-n/a
    9-yes
    10-n/a
    11-no
    12-no
    13-no
    14-n/a
    15-n/a
    16-n/a
    17-in certian areas of town we would have to consider a tanker shuttle but would need to either call early or make LONG hose lays.
    18-see 17
    19-0
    20-n/a....each engine has 750 gal tnak
    21-suburban with a run out to the south area.
    22-n/a
    23-400K
    24-1 FT Chief w/2 EMT'S on duty from 8-4 7 days a week.
    25-no
    26-no
    27-2...very rough guesstimate
    28-all
    29-no
    30-325
    31-1/3 again very rough guess
    32-1/3
    33-1/3
    34-4 mins
    35-50 psi static
    Last edited by Weruj1; 03-14-2004 at 08:36 PM.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Default Thanks

    Weruj...Thank you for taking the time to answer this. I was really starting to wonder if anyone was going to help me out or not. Please fill this out everyone. I would greatly appreciate it!

    BUMP
    LREngine135
    Firefighter/EMT-B


    All things I say...while not always making sense are ALWAYS my opinion and only mine. They do not reflect the opinions of any department of which I am a member.

  4. #4
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    NW Ohio
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    Default

    well to be honest thats alot of questions for a post....I had to print it out to reply.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber arhaney's Avatar
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    Default

    Sometime tomorrow I'll try to answer all of the questions. Like weruj1 I'll have to print them off and run down the list.
    Chief
    Wren Volunteer Fire Department
    IACOJ
    Southern Division

    http://www.wrenfiredepartment.4t.com/

    In Memory of:
    FireFighter/Pilot James Archer
    1946-2005
    "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

    Thanks, LeuitEFDems

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber captfire3's Avatar
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    Excelsior Springs, MO
    Posts
    12

    Default

    1 no
    2 very little
    3 yes
    4 no
    5 yes tanker shuttle
    6 no
    7 not sure
    8 5 to 6
    9 n/a
    10 n/a
    11 n/a
    12 yes
    13 yes
    14 1
    15 yes
    16 2 or 3
    17 no
    18 don't know
    19 2
    20 2,700 and 4,000
    21 47 sq mi
    22 yes
    23 80,000
    24 no
    25 no
    26 a little
    27 15 to 20
    28 about 5
    29 no
    30 30
    31 25%
    32 don't know
    33 n/a
    34 5 to 7 min
    35 n/a
    stay safe

    Captfire3

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber
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    Default

    Here we go
    1 No
    2 Yes
    3 No
    4 yes
    5 yes-that is what our neighboring dept usually brings anyway it keeps the engin available
    6 ? 1000-1500 somewhere in that area
    7 realistically 25 minutes with travel time
    8 3
    9 No
    10 N/A
    11 No
    12 No
    13 No
    14 N/A
    15 No
    16 N/A
    17 More tankers if occured
    18 Not really a problem at this time
    19 1
    20 1800-3000 gallons
    21 Rural
    22 Yes
    23 $142,000
    24 No
    25 No
    26 Yes
    27 Maybe 1.5 avg.
    28 0
    29 No
    30 576
    31 ?
    32 All
    33 All We run between 1000-1500 gpm in all hydrants
    34 11 minutes on scene time
    35 50-60 psi

    Our system is fairly new being put in over the last 10 years it is still expanding so we hope tha capabilities stay where they are. With that said we do have times where there is no water with the installations and taps to the new system being put in. Especially where the loops are being completed. This is communicated to us by the water department as they take part of the system down. We will also be low on water when the the tower is taken down for repairs. Luckily no fires the last time they took it down for the week. Kinda nice having a water tower right next door to the station

    Hope this helps we do not run many fires. For that matter this year so far we are not running much of anything
    Les Hartford
    Assistant Chief
    LMR Fire Dept.

    The views posted here are strickly my own and not of any of the groups I am affiliated with.

    IACOJ Member

  8. #8
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    Default

    1) no
    2) yes, about half is watered
    3) nothing signifant
    4) no, not untill the first arriving engine determines that a tanker will be needed
    5) yes, mutal aid is for tankers.
    6) no
    7) average turn around time 4 - 13 minutes depending on variables
    8) 2 confirmed, (1 is a 1250 gallon engine) and then whatever tankers/engines show up for mutal aid
    9) no
    10) n/a
    11) n/a
    12) yes
    13) no, but nieghboring community, yes
    14) 1 house
    15) no
    16) n/a
    17) yes, add dry hydrants
    18) no
    19) 2 *1 is an 1250 gallon engine)
    20) 3000, 1250
    21) farm, forest, rural
    22) yes
    23) n/a
    24) yes, 2 in one station, 1 in one station
    25) no
    26) n/a
    27) 2
    28) n/a
    29) no
    30) 20
    31) 2 maybe.
    32) all
    33) 2
    34) response for first engine 4 - 6min, 2nd engine 5-10
    35) n/a

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber arhaney's Avatar
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    Default

    1. No
    2. Yes
    3. No
    4. No
    5. Yes
    6. In most areas yes
    7. 10 Minutes
    8. 5
    9. Not in the last 7 or 8 years
    10. N/A
    11. N/A
    12. no
    13. no
    14. N/A
    15. no
    16. N/A
    17. N/A
    18. N/A
    19. 4
    20. 3,500, 3,200, 1,500, 1,000
    21. Rural
    22. Yes
    23. Not Sure
    24. no
    25. No
    26. N/A
    27. 4
    28. N/A
    29. No
    30. 20
    31. 15
    32. 5
    33. 15
    34. 5-6 Minutes
    35. 80 PSI
    Chief
    Wren Volunteer Fire Department
    IACOJ
    Southern Division

    http://www.wrenfiredepartment.4t.com/

    In Memory of:
    FireFighter/Pilot James Archer
    1946-2005
    "Rest in peace James, you now have the ultimate set of wings on you."

    Thanks, LeuitEFDems

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    101

    Thumbs up Thanks For The Feedback

    I just wanted to thank all of those who have replied so far for the feedback. This will help me tremendously and I appreciate the help. I am trying to keep this at the top of the forums for a atleast another week so I can get atleast 20 responses. I know it's not necessarily liked for people to bump posts up, but I ask that you excuse me this once as it is for a good purpose.

    Thanks!
    LREngine135
    Firefighter/EMT-B


    All things I say...while not always making sense are ALWAYS my opinion and only mine. They do not reflect the opinions of any department of which I am a member.

  11. #11
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
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    Niagara Falls, NY, USA
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    Default

    1. No
    2. Yes
    3. Yes
    4. Yes
    5. Yes, Unhydranted
    6. Yes, but we only run 1250gpm
    7. 7-10 min for tanker to leave and return.
    8. 2-3
    9. No
    10. N/A
    11. N/A
    12. No
    13. No
    14. N/A
    15. No
    16. N/A
    17. N/A
    18. N/A
    19. 1
    20. 2000 gal and 2 engines w/ 1000 gal tanks.
    21. Residential, farms, light commercial.
    22. Yes
    23. 120K
    24. No
    25. No
    26. Communication with the Water Authority can increase water pressure if needed.
    27. 4
    28. none
    29. No
    30. 100
    31. 50% Very rough estimate. With a phone call that could be a much as 90%
    32. 10
    33. 90
    34. 4 minutes with 8 on the first engine out. Second engine 6-7mins with an additional 5-6.
    35. 65 psi static.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  12. #12
    Forum Member
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    Default

    Ok .
    Going to post a set of q/a for each dept I am on.

    City dept .

    1. Yes
    2. n/a
    3. Yes , some of the older residential areas
    4. no
    5. no
    6. Yes
    7. n/a
    8. n/a
    9. no
    10. n/a
    11. n/a
    12. no
    13. no
    14. n/a
    15. no
    16. n/a
    17. n/a
    18. n/a
    19. 0
    20. n/a
    21. low density residential/ low density commercial
    22. no
    23. unknown
    24. Yes most the time 1 man
    25. no
    26. probally but the whole system in that area needs replaced
    27. 4 structure and roughly 20 "other types"
    28. about %30
    29. Yes they are painted no maps are not in the trucks
    30. roughly 350
    31. about 75-90
    32. about 100
    33. about 225-250
    34. responce time for first engine about 2 mins full responce depends could be 2 mins or 15.
    35. average about 55

    ============================== ============================== =====

    County Dept.

    1. no
    2. yes (private owned)
    3. yes
    4. yes
    5. yes both
    6. no
    7. depends on how far it is to water source average is about 6-8 mins
    8. 2
    9. yes
    10. about 3-4 min
    11. yes
    12. no , most the time structure was lost by the time we got on scene
    13. no
    14. n/a
    15. yes
    16. twice
    17. Possibly having larger tanks on the engines and dont start interior until tender is at least halfway to the scene unless there is a person inside.
    18. no
    19. the district operates 12 our station has 1
    20. ours holds 1480 gallons and is an off-road tender(6x6) another holds 1480(off road), 2 hold 1800(off road), 4 hold 1200(off road), 3 hold 3000 (2on road 1 off) and 1 holds 3500 (on road).
    21. Rural with residental commercial and industrial scattered.
    22. yes
    23. unknown
    24. Only command staff. currently they all work out of the central headquarters and 4 other stations 8-5pm and respond from their homes during "non buisness hours"
    25. no
    26. no
    27. my dept about 8 fires , the district about 70
    28. 0
    29. no
    30. about 150
    31. 0
    32. unknown
    33. unknown
    34. Volunteer about 10-15 mins
    35. lol whatever the pumper can suck

  13. #13
    Senior Member
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    Unhappy Why so many views yet so few posts?

    Why is it that so many people view a forum like this asking for help and feedback, yet so few apply. Please, if you absolutely positively don't want to post a reply to my question, then atleast answer the poll so I can get some kind of broad guess!!!!

    Thanks! God Bless!
    LREngine135
    Firefighter/EMT-B


    All things I say...while not always making sense are ALWAYS my opinion and only mine. They do not reflect the opinions of any department of which I am a member.

  14. #14
    firefighter3531
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Default

    1. no
    2.yes
    3.yes
    4.no
    5.no all pumpers carry 1000 gal
    6.in some areas
    7.unk
    8. all vollie can't depend on anything
    9.no
    10.
    11.
    12.no
    13.no
    14.
    15.no
    16.
    17.get some hydrants put in areas that we have none
    18.water dept is currently putting in bigger feeder pipes
    19.none
    20.
    21.35 sq miles 4200 homes ans a bunch of small buss.
    22.no
    23.65000 tax levy 15000 from donations
    24.no
    25.no
    26.yes
    27.30
    28.5
    29.yes just started this past saturday painting them never has been done before
    30.800
    31.100 est
    32.200 est
    33.500 est
    34.6 min
    35.35-50 est
    it has been awhile for me testing hyd so this is all rough est and the best i can remember form the past hope this hepls u out john boy

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber
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    Location
    Reserve La.
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    Default

    1. yes
    2. N/A
    3. yes
    4. no (No Tankers)
    5. N/A
    6. No
    7. N/A
    8. 0
    9. No
    10. N/A
    11. No
    12. no
    13. No
    14. N/A
    15. No
    16. N/A
    17. N/A
    18. N/A
    19. 0
    20. N/A
    21. suburb/industrial
    22. No
    23. 250,000
    24. 3 daytime only (M-F)
    25. No
    26. Yes (When the situation arises we call HQ and they call the water plant to increase flow)
    27. 15
    28. I'll say 1 but could be 0
    29. No
    30. 480
    31. None
    32. Only about 1%
    33. 99%
    I found 31 through 33 a bit difficult to answer but it is around 1000 to 1200 gpm's for most of them.
    34. 5 minutes and 10 people
    35. 80 psi


    Hope this helps, Mark

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber SHVFD_Asst_Chief's Avatar
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    USA
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    Default

    1. yes
    2.
    3. yes
    4. no - however, mutual aid may bring tankers
    5. no - although we have participated in shuttle operations
    6. depending on hydrant
    7.
    8. none, our department does not have tankers
    9. yes
    10. less than 5 minutes
    11. fortunatly no
    12. yes/no. Strucutre was already lost before units arrived.
    13. no
    14.
    15. no
    16.
    17. not at this time.
    18. yes - call for as much help as possible.
    19. none
    20.
    21. suburban (not sure how FEMA will classify it, but that is how we do.)
    22. yes
    23. unknown
    24. no
    25. no
    26. yes and no
    27. 2-3 in our district; 4-8 mutual aid.
    28. none that I am aware of.
    29. no
    30. I do not know.
    31. Guessing about 70%
    32. About 10%
    33. About 20%
    34. Average response time about 5 minutes, number of personnel depends on time of day or night.
    35. unknown.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
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    Talking Another Thank You

    Thanks go out to my two brothers who responded after my last plea and to those of you who answered my poll if you didn't want to respond directly.

    I am needing to keep this active still...until atleast monday. I am hoping to get 30 replies directly and 100 on the poll...I promise after monday evening, I will let the sleeping dog lie. Just please, do me the favor and respond to this...


    Thanks!
    LREngine135
    Firefighter/EMT-B


    All things I say...while not always making sense are ALWAYS my opinion and only mine. They do not reflect the opinions of any department of which I am a member.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    Wisconsin
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    Default

    1. No
    2. Yes
    3. Yes
    4. Yes, our tanker is second out in those areas.
    5. Nothing automatic but has been called several times.
    6. In most areas, yes.
    7. Depends on weather, amount of tankers involved, etc.
    8. One from our dept, 3-4 from surrounding depts.
    9. Not yet had to pump in those bad areas.
    10. n/a
    11. Not really, great potential for bad things to happen however.
    12. no
    13. no
    14. n/a
    15. no
    16. n/a
    17. more pumping stations would take care of the problem
    18. just call mutual aid tankers ASAP in those areas
    19. 1 tanker
    20. 1750 gallons
    21. bedroom community, residential and commercial, popular lake area as well.
    22. yes
    23. $300,000-$350,000
    24. yes, one full time chief, one full time inspector, both usually 8am-5pm
    25. no
    26. yes
    27. per month is 0-2
    28. not many if at all
    29. we have a hydrant map, used to paint them but not anymore.
    30. couple hundred at least, best guess
    31. just about all of them, at least 3/4 of them
    32. about a 1/4 at max.
    33. about 3/4 of them
    34. average response time is 5 minutes day or night
    35. average is 1000gpm-1400gpm in most hydrants.

    Pop. 8500 mostly urban to semi-urban residential and commercial, bedroom community in 5.5 square miles next to a large metro city.

    We really only have one area that doesn't have hydrants and 2 areas that the hydrants don't work good in. One area is the area around the lake and beach areas that do not have any hydrants at all. The other two areas are development additions for several houses in each area. Not enough water pressure in these areas to run a residental yard sprinkler if someone else flushes the toilet. The City will be installing a new pump soon but so far have yet to deliver.

    _________________________
    Lt.Jason Knecht
    Altoona Fire Rescue
    Altoona, WI

  19. #19
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Gator Country
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    4,157

    Default

    yes
    n/a
    no
    no
    no
    yes
    n/a
    n/a
    why would you draft if you have hydrants?
    n/a
    n/a
    no
    no
    n/a
    n/a
    n/a
    0
    no
    suburban
    n/a
    $3.5 mil
    yes-at least 9
    no
    yes
    10
    none
    no
    400+
    all
    none
    all
    4 minutes
    90psi

    Most of our hydrants are 500' apart. However, we do have some areas where it can be 2000'-3000' apart. In these areas we set up relay pumping operations with our 5" LDH.

    Dave
    Last edited by Dave1983; 03-18-2004 at 11:41 AM.

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