View Poll Results: Who do you support for President?

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  • George W. Bush

    98 65.77%
  • John Kerry

    38 25.50%
  • Ralph Nader

    3 2.01%
  • Undecided

    10 6.71%
  1. #26
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    Originally posted by E229Lt


    I believe any firefighter who votes for Bush has truly forgotten his pledge to us.

    I know I haven't.
    Lt. -

    With all due respect both for your position as an officer, and as a member of the finest firefighting force in the world, since when is buying the FDNY (or any fire department, for that matter) new gear a federal responsibility?

    I'm in complete agreement with you that we all need the newest gear and the best training, especially in a post-9/11 world. BUT the funding should come from local sources. There are constitutional and practical reasons why this makes sense, and I've discussed a few of them before. I don't see a need to rehash them here.

    In my opinion, and it's only my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, I'd rather the feds concentrate on REAL homeland security - finding and killing terrorists, preventing further terrorist acts on our soil, and coordinating the massive intelligence effort necessary to make the other two elements a success.

    If we have to USE our spiffy new equipment and our spiffy new training, it means that homeland security has failed. As much as we (and others) puff us up as the "first line of defense against terrorism", it's just not true. The first line of defense is the US military and intelligence agencies. I don't know about you, but I don't think a 2 1/2" straight bore or a new digital radio has ever killed a terrorist.

    Now, if you think that all of the equipment lying around gathering dust is a waste, then by all means vote for John Kerry. I guarantee that his approach to terrorism, which is essentially the same as Clinton's, will almost inevitably result in another, and probably worse, terrorist holocaust in the US. Then we'll get to use all that new Haz Mat equipment and WMD training.

    But even beyond that, I can't get past Kerry's political opportunism and his deft ability to change positions on just about every important issue in the last 20 years. The one issue he has NEVER changed his position on is the US military. He wants it smaller, less well funded, with less weapons, less new weapon systems, and less involved in killing terrorists. If you can hold your nose and vote for him because Bush didn't buy us all new turnouts, then God bless you - that's your right as an American. I can't.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  2. #27
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    Ok, here I go but please be gentle with me as this is my first debate on a forum.

    Last election, I voted for Gore. I didn't think this country was ready for another 4 years of "Reaganomics" and I had a sneaky suspicion that "W" would be bringing that to the table. When he won, I was furious. I just KNEW we were gonna be screwed by him but boy did I mis-read who was gonna be doing the "screwing" to our country.

    Put aside the WMD's for a bit and look at a few other points about Sadam and his "boys". Every single person reading this post has either a Mother, Sister, Aunt, Grandmother, Wife, and/or Daughter. Imagine that you are sitting at home with all of your loved ones around you and there is a knock at the door. You answer it to find some of Sadam's men at your door and they are taking the women and/or female children with them to rape them and if you do ANYTHING to try to stop them, THEY WILL KILL YOU. You have to stand there and watch your terrified loved one being dragged of to be humiliated beyond anything you could imagine (unless you've been raped and beaten yourself). What do you do? Call the police? Ohhhhhhhhhh, that's right, they are Sadam's men. Call the Governor?!? Ooops, Sadam's man again. Hmmm... there is NOBODY to call for help. You have to just sit at home waiting to see if your loved one will be returned to you. Or maybe your loved one tried to fight for themselves and were killed. That's a possibility also. As an American, as a decent human being, do you see anything wrong with this picture??

    Still not sure? Well how about this information.

    Largest Death Toll From Chemical Weapons Attack
    The greatest number of people killed in a single chemical weapons attack is estimated at 4,000, when President Saddam Hussein of Iraq attacked members of his country's Kurdish minority at Halabja, Iraq, in March 1988. The attack was ostensibly punishment for the support the Kurds had given to Iran in the Iran–Iraq war. - Information obtained from Guinness World Records at http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/

    Now correct me if I'm wrong but aren't "Chemical Weapons" the same as WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION?????

    Oh, and another little piece of info that you can find online at the Associated Press website. Al Qaeda has recently acquired WMD's. Of course they claim to have gotten them from the internet but for an advanced terrorist group, why did it take them so long to "find" these online? Or did they come from Sadam's stash. I mean, it's not like Sadam didn't know we were coming well in advance. How much time would he actually need to get his WMD's out of Iraq? Only as much time as we gave him. Hmmmmm... makes you wonder.

    "W" led our country through one of it's darkest moments in history. To see him standing amongst the firemen in NY that had lost SO MANY of their loved ones brought comfort to me. Firemen & women ROCK, and to lose so many on 9-11 was heart wrenching. Bush jumped right up onto that unstable ground and swore that he would NOT let these murders go unpunished and he has kept his word. How can you find fault in that?

    Deborah
    >Opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got one< This one is mine but feel free to share it with others.

    Love and respect to you all regardless of who you vote for.

  3. #28
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    Originally posted by H0tAngel
    Ok, here I go but please be gentle with me as this is my first debate on a forum.

    Last election, I voted for Gore. I didn't think this country was ready for another 4 years of "Reaganomics" and I had a sneaky suspicion that "W" would be bringing that to the table. Love and respect to you all regardless of who you vote for.
    Angel, generally everyone on here plays nice. The ones that don't simply get ignored, so don't worry about getting flamed. Opine away!

    Re: your comment about "Reaganomics" - Dubya has already put a large piece of it in place with the tax cuts. I hope he does more, and persuades Congress to make them permanent.

    The little secret that Dems don't like people to know is that the Reagan tax cut of 1984 actually INCREASED the inflow of money to the Federal Treasury. "My God!! How is this possible????", you ask?

    Easy. Tax cuts mean that the people who pay taxes get some of their money back (or don't have to pay it out in the first place). The entreprenurial among us (and the US has a lot of 'em, thank God) use that money to expand their businesses and buy more services in the B-to-B market. Know what that means? More jobs available, an increase in average income, more corporate profitability because people with jobs buy more, and/or use their tax cut money to buy marginally more products and services, more taxpayers have higher paying jobs, and....voila! Higher tax revenues.

    I used to work for the transit authority here in the Philly area, and I could never understand why, in budget crunch times, the authority's knee jerk response was to raise fares and cut service. The REAL way to increase revenues would have been to cut fares (or at least hold them steady) and increase service (or the quality of the service). Give people a better product for less, and they'll buy more of it. Essentially, you can have 10 people buying your product at $5 a pop and making $50, or you could have 15 people buying it for $4 and making $60.

    But governmental and quasi-governmental organizations rarely think about lowering anything because they're stuck in that simplistic and out of touch mindset that says lowering peoples' taxes (or fares) will bankrupt the Treasury (or the authority). Most of these organizations, by the way, are run by Democrats...you make the connection.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  4. #29
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    Kerry is Klintoon without the aw shucks southern charm/charisma thing


  5. #30
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    The first thing that annoyed me about Kerry is the fact that the man is so wishy-washy. Say what you mean and stick to your guns. Don't say what you think people want to hear, tell them how you really feel. He fought in Vietnam (for a minute) then you see him sitting at a rally behind the "oh so patriotic" Jane Fonda.

    Here's something to think about. The President of the United States is the Big boss of the Military, right? If Kerry is SOOOO anti-war, then why would he even want the job? I mean y'all are firemen because that is what you chose to be. You didn't say to yourself "Well I don't like fighting fires so I think I'll take the job as a fireman", did you? What happens to America if Kerry is elected President and he is told that another Sept. 11th is about to happen? If he's against war, are we all just screwed now? Will he leave us hanging out there while some terrorists kill thousands of Americans? Oh wait, he won't care, he'll be held up in some secure hole somewhere with MILITARY PERSONNEL protecting his butt.

    >>stepping down from the soapbox<<

  6. #31
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    PFD,

    That is precious. I have sent it out to a few of my friends, they'll love it.

    By the way, do you think the US flag on his lapel is upside down accidently, or was it fixed by a computer editing program? The things that make you go Hmmmmm.

    Bucks:

    The little secret that Dems don't like people to know is that the Reagan tax cut of 1984 actually INCREASED the inflow of money to the Federal Treasury. "My God!! How is this possible????", you ask?
    Ah yup. Imagine that. Even Rudy Giuliani said the same thing when he was Mayor of New York and the economy was slumping - prior to 9/11.

    He cut hotel room taxes and a few others and the coughers started to get bigger. Go figure, you put more money in my pocket I will spend more money and you will get more money by having more goods being purchased. When the economy slumps it is a bad thing to stop spending money as nation becasue it worsens the economy by taking more money out of circulation and not purchasing goods that support businesses and keep people employed.

    Look at wht the automakers did a few years ago after teh economy slumped, cut some prices, increased rebates, and reduced interest rates. What did it do? They had record earnings for several quarters. Huh, go figure.
    Last edited by DaSharkie; 03-23-2004 at 09:16 PM.
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  7. #32
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    Alright boys and girls here we go with more flipfloppiness (Y'all like that word?) from the Kerry camp.

    It turns out that the FBI was watching Kerry in the early 70's (So whats new Hoover watched everybody) and it was found out that Kerry was at a November 1971 meeting of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War meeting in Kansas City where someone brought up assasinating Senators that support the war effort. Well that flew about as far as a cement balloon even with them. When this FBI stuff was brought out a KC paper set out talk to the Kerry camp about this incident.

    When they were asked, the reply was that John Kerry was not at that meeting and that he had severed ties with the VVAW at a June 1971 meeting in St. Louis. The paper brought up the fact that there was surveillence footage of Kerry at the November meeting. The Kerry camp responded that if there is surveillence footage they will submit to that historical footnote, but the important fact is when the assasinations were brought up, Kerry stormed out.

    WHY LIE ?!?!?!?

    If he was there than say so. If he left then he left, why try to cover it up and then when busted try to spin it so it seems they didn't lie.

    This one even astounds me

    Anyone else see the slime trail following Kerry?

    If you vote for Kerry, you truly have forgotten.

    I know I won't
    Never Forget 9-11-01!!!!!!
    There wasn't just 343, the other 73 rescue workers deserve to be remembered too!!!!

  8. #33
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    1971.

    I'm not a fan of Kerry, but I'm not really going to base voting for/against him on something that was over 30 years ago. Some people have actually changed in 30 years worth of life experiences.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  9. #34
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    When this FBI stuff was brought out a KC paper set out talk to the Kerry camp about this incident.

    When they were asked, the reply was that John Kerry was not at that meeting and that he had severed ties with the VVAW at a June 1971 meeting in St. Louis. The paper brought up the fact that there was surveillence footage of Kerry at the November meeting. The Kerry camp responded that if there is surveillence footage they will submit to that historical footnote, but the important fact is when the assasinations were brought up, Kerry stormed out.

    Sounds like the "Kerry Camp" reply was recently not in 1971
    SB (local 1355 retired)
    Last edited by StoveBolt; 03-23-2004 at 07:06 PM.

  10. #35
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    Question Now What?????????????????????????

    Here's the Question, Was he there or not? It's like pregnancy, you are or you aren't. If he wasn't there, how could he "Storm out"? If he did in fact storm out, then he was there. Period. If he wasn't there, it would have been hard to catch him on tape. I'm sorry that this guy is lumped in the same state that also has some Firefighters that I have a great deal of respect for.
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  11. #36
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    Even better put Woods .. lol

    SB (local 1355 retired)

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    Originally posted by Bones42
    1971.

    I'm not a fan of Kerry, but I'm not really going to base voting for/against him on something that was over 30 years ago. Some people have actually changed in 30 years worth of life experiences.
    Bones, it's not the fact that he was at a meeting 30 years ago, it's the fact that they're lying about it. All we hear from them is how Bush lied about WMDs (if that's the case, so did most democrats including Kerry), and they are lying again. Kerry just can't be trusted.

  13. #38
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    Originally posted by Bones42
    1971.

    I'm not a fan of Kerry, but I'm not really going to base voting for/against him on something that was over 30 years ago. Some people have actually changed in 30 years worth of life experiences.
    You're missing the point though, Bones, which is this: it's not what happened 30 years ago that concerns people so much at the almost AUTOMATIC lie that spills out when someone brings up things that happened 30 years ago.

    I mean, one could argue that his views really haven't changed all that much in 30 years if you look at his anti-military voting record in the Senate. That's fine. I tend to agree.

    But the bigger problem, and the point being made here, is that you simply cannot trust the guy to tell the truth on seemingly ANYTHING. If that doesn't worry you, I don't know what should.
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

    Joe Black

    The opinions expressed are mine and mine alone (but you can borrow them )and may not reflect those of any organization with which I am associated (but then again, they just may not be thinking clearly).

  14. #39
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    Talking Well..............................

    Originally posted by BucksEng91


    You're missing the point though, Bones, which is this: it's not what happened 30 years ago that concerns people so much at the almost AUTOMATIC lie that spills out when someone brings up things that happened 30 years ago.
    I'm not taking up for Kerry by any means, but don't most politicians do this?????????????
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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  15. #40
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    I did some wild, crazy and downright stupid things 30 years ago too... that's why the only thing I could be President of is the IACOJ!

    As far as I am concerned...everyone who runs for ofice, from dog catcher to President has a few bones or two buried in the backyard....
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  16. #41
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    As far as I am concerned...everyone who runs for ofice, from dog catcher to President has a few bones or two buried in the backyard....
    Hey! Let's not get personal here!

    I will agree, the current lying is bad.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I wonder now that Kerry is using the Vietnam base political ads if the news media is going to dig up some family's of lost soldiers who are offended, as they did for the 911 family's in the bush ads?
    SB (local 1355 retired)

  18. #43
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    Originally posted by StoveBolt
    I wonder now that Kerry is using the Vietnam base political ads if the news media is going to dig up some family's of lost soldiers who are offended, as they did for the 911 family's in the bush ads?
    SB (local 1355 retired)
    Don't hold your breath...
    "Let's roll." - Todd Beamer, one of a group of American soldiers who handed the terrorists their first defeat.

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    Liberal hypocrites have gone on and on about how Bush "lied" about WMDs. So their plan is to elect John Kerry president. The same Kerry who said:

    "The threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but as I said, it is not new. It has been with us since the end of that war, and particularly in the last 4 years we know after Operation Desert Fox failed to force him to reaccept them, that he has continued to build those weapons. He has had a free hand for 4 years to reconstitute these weapons, allowing the world, during the interval, to lose the focus we had on weapons of mass destruction and the issue of proliferation." -- John Kerry, October 9, 2002

    "(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

    "I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002


    For these and more quotes from "lying" democrats, visit http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php

  20. #45
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    Here is the latest y'all. I came home this morning and GMA or one of those shows was on they had 2 of the 9-11 famlies on just ripping up and down Condi Rice's comments on Richard Clark's testimony. Gee Liberal show with liberal point of view. This wasn't political Noooooo (voice dripping with sarcasm) Nobody had anything to say about the fact that Clark "the terrorism guru" got 1 meeting with Bush and chose to do it on the internet and security of that. Or here hasn't been word one said about George Tenant's testimony that his hands were essentially tied by Clinton's indecisiveness about Osama. The Sudan pracically handed him to us on a silver platter with an apple in his mouth 3 times. but since Clinton f$%^$ed it up not once but 3 times. And the fact that Clinton took Terrorism as a civillian crime and all of the evidence needed was tied up in a grand jury investigation for a few years after WTC 1. Hmmm Foreign enemies using bombs to attack America, sounds like war to me and that was 1993 7 years before 9-11. It took Bush to fight them.

    If we elect Kerry, it will be Clinton part II

    Y'all really didn't think I would let this die so quick did you
    Never Forget 9-11-01!!!!!!
    There wasn't just 343, the other 73 rescue workers deserve to be remembered too!!!!

  21. #46
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    I feel for the families of the 9/11 victims because of their loss, but I'm getting sick of the media acting like they're the kings of the world. Their opinion is no greater than anyone else's. They can be just as biased as anyone else. I'm finding it hard to believe that none of the 3,000 killed came from a republican family which supports this administration. The biased media won't let you hear from them.

    Anyway, I saw on Hannity and Colmes last night that Clark is a HYPOCRITE and has contradicted himself many times. They played tapes of him stating the opposite of what he has said recently - and it's obviously to sell some copies of his book.

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    Thank you firespec35. www.firefightersforbush.com
    Last edited by rollnrack; 03-26-2004 at 07:31 PM.

  23. #48
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    No problem, by the time this is over all the libs will be seeing my Avatar in their nightmares.

    FYI I E-mailed Sean Hannity wih a copy of the forum link so hopefully the world will know the truth.
    Never Forget 9-11-01!!!!!!
    There wasn't just 343, the other 73 rescue workers deserve to be remembered too!!!!

  24. #49
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    Default Bush or Kerry?

    No question in my mind. I wouldn't vote for Kerry for dogcatcher. I will not be voting against Kerry but for Bush because I think he has done a great job. He has to battle the foreign terrorist as well as the punk *** liberals back here at home. Notice how when Bush talks it is with a positive outlook on things but with Kerry and the libs it is all doom and gloom. They have been blowing smoke for years. Just my opinion.

  25. #50
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    Have y'all seen Kerry's latest commercial. It goes something like Oh no I'm not going to raise taxes oh yeah I just want to raise taxes on the rich people. Oh yeah by the way I'm a vietnam veteran Vote for Me!!!

    Oh come on what is this dribble. Just raise taxes on the rich people? Where does that stop. I gotta feeling that It's gonna include all of us with more than a few years on the job.

    I'm tellin ya this guy is a slimeball.
    Never Forget 9-11-01!!!!!!
    There wasn't just 343, the other 73 rescue workers deserve to be remembered too!!!!

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