View Poll Results: Who do you support for President?

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  • George W. Bush

    98 65.77%
  • John Kerry

    38 25.50%
  • Ralph Nader

    3 2.01%
  • Undecided

    10 6.71%
  1. #76
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    hey kjohn23.. maybe you could sway me, give me some good reasons to vote for kerry?
    Let's see; he didn't lie to us in order to start some stupid war that has killed thousands upon thousands?

    And as for Ralph Nader, I truly believe most people are completely ignorant of the advances in automobile safety that people like him fought for. Everything from seat belts to safer door latches, and more. Because of people like him, industry is no longer able to pawn dangerous products on the unknowing public. You may think it's "over-regulation", but I, for one, am glad that I can use a toaster without electrocuting myself, or have a minor car accident without worrying about the windshield cutting my head off.

  2. #77
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    Let's see; he didn't lie to us in order to start a stupid war that has killed thousands upon thousands?
    Your right, I agree. we should have done nothing just like Neville Chamberlin in 1930's Europe. That only ended up taking 6 years and how many millions more dead to stop?How about the thousands upon thousands who were killed, maimed or raped by an open supporter of terrorism? How many of these people were killed by our own inaction since 1991? Do we not have any responsibility for them? Why is it that liberals always blame the US , and never the perpetrators of events? By not doing anything we are condoning that savage's actions. But then again, life would be better with him in power. That is where we would be with him still ruling. Of course maybe then, only a few thousand of our own citizens could be dead or maimed from terrorism supported by saddam. Sure, that's a good trade off.To say that this administration lied to us is ridiculous. Our intelligence agencies were crippled, for obvious reasons. ELINT is not as effective for this type of action as HUMINT. All the electronic garbage in the world does us no good for what we are up against. The previous administration admitted iraq was a severe problem. Vladimir Putin, of all people has also stated recently that iraq posed a grave danger to the US. This said just after his return from the G-8 summit. Also, don't go saying that the Bush administration used 9-11 as a reason for going to war there, they NEVER said that. This is the war on terror. Iraq openly participated in state sponsored terrorism. But then again, a known mass murderer is removed from power and were the liars. A state sponsor of terrorism is removed and were the bad guys. More schools, fresh water and hospitals are up and running there; and were in it only for the oil. My bad, I forgot.
    Last edited by jasper45; 06-26-2004 at 03:25 PM.

  3. #78
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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    hey kjohn23.. maybe you could sway me, give me some good reasons to vote for kerry?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Let's see; he didn't lie to us in order to start some stupid war that has killed thousands upon thousands?


    Ah, but I have no idea how Kerry feels about many issues becasue he does not stick to an opnion. I know I have a problem with his pro-abortion, pro-gun control, pro-affirmative action stances. As a former resident of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts I never saw him do anything for the state (neither has Ted Kennedy and he's been there for 40+ years.

    I fail to see how any member of congress who has been a Senator for 20+ years can look at me and tell me he can change the problems in the system when he helped make problems within that system. Mr. Kerry is too entrenched in the system of our corrupted and lost federal government.

    As for Mr. Nader, I do not believe in Socialism as it puts the rights of the governement before the people and tramples on an individual's rights. I understand many laws in our government trample individual rights and I have a problem with that, but socialism is not the way to go.

    Both of these will take us more towards socialized health care which is a failure for proper, adequate, care of patients, and will hurt the economical growth of this country forever. Higher taxes are not what this nation needs to run itself, it needs TRUE FISCAL ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY.

    I have many problems with Bush as well, I do not believe in faith based intiatives, his stances on the environment are pretty weak, I do not suppport capital punishment, and other issues as well.

    I used to think that I would vote for Bush becasue the Kerry is such a bad choice in comparison, but the sad fact about modern politics at local, county, state, and federal levels is that we end up having to choose the lesser of several evils and this marches this great Republic further down the road to failure. We as a nation, individuals, and voters are just as responsible as the twits who are elected into these positions.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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  4. #79
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    I wish I could vote for None of the above, I have yet to meet an honest politician.The election process is not about who is best for the job, it is who is the less evil.Hey Mr Perot your country needs you.Now if Mr Vush would get rid of his Vice President Mr Haliburton himself, and get Rudy to run with him he might get my vote.Hell for that matter the ticket I would love to see in the election would be Rudy and McCain

  5. #80
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    Just when you thought you were safe, I'm back. I consider "The Nozzleman" a friend, and this is a debate among friends. I don't like a lot of things that Ralph Nader is a symbol of/for. I owned a Corvair many years ago. I thought it was great. I do not share the position of some people about Consumer Product Safety. America OVER PROTECTS PEOPLE FROM THEMSELVES. Period. On to Oil. The last new Petroleum Refinery to be built (to date) in America was in 1976!! Makes no difference how much oil we get, there is a finite refinery capacity. I blame Nader, and those of his ilk, for this. Moderate people need to take America back from the enviornmental nuts. Yes, I said NUTS. California needs to have it's chain yanked big time on this. There is simply no excuse for a state (Ca.) making Enviro laws that exceed the federal laws in severity. We need adequate supplies of cheap oil, and the ecology has to take whatever hits that are needed to make this happen. My list goes on, but you get the idea.
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  6. #81
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    For me, I vote democrat. I am a liberal democrat and i do have conservative streak. For me, I would deff vote John Kerry. Now if Arnold shwarzinagger ran for president, he would hell get my vote
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  7. #82
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    1. Is that last post in English? I'm having a hard time interpreting it...

    2. Saw this today on another site,
    I recall something Bob Rodale said: “Don’t get upset over the fact that there are no good candidates for president anymore. If we get enough bad presidents, people will finally realize they can’t find salvation in Washington.”

    Now, Bob Rodale wasn't exactly Rush Limbaugh...He was founder of Rodale Institute and essentially the father of the modern Organic farming movement. i.e. like Organic Gardening magazine was one of his publications.

    (By the way, the quote above comes from a re-print of a 1993 article available at http://www.newfarm.org/depts/nf_clas.../logsdon.shtml )
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  8. #83
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    rescueranger21 is from area 51 ?
    SB (Local 1355 retired)

  9. #84
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    I guess this thread is as good as any for this story. Many of you may not know this, the green party recently held their national convention here, in my fair city. It was 5 days long or so. Here is one important fact I found disturbing, they did not have a United States flag any where in their convention hall; The Midwest Express Center. In fact a request was made to the convention center itself to have all U.S. flags removed from the center itself, a request which was granted.While the convention concluded yesterday, its culmination was a march through downtown to promote peace. This of course, was a news worthy event and as such was covered fairly well here. In the metro section of our newspaper today a picture was published from the rally following the march. Several people were pictured with signs in their hands, with the slogan "victory for the Iraqi resistance" clearly visible. ( I have to admit, I am unable to get this picture into this reply. Any help or idea's would be great, the picture does not appear, as far as I can tell on-line. I am unsure how to post it from my computer.)While I recognize free speach, and the value it holds to us as people I was and still am greatly disturbed by what I saw. In my opinion these are Americans hoping for failure of men and women giving their all to preserve their precious free speach rights. These same men and women (service members) are trying to give the Iraqi people the same free speach rights we often take for granted.jsonline I provided this link to the paper itself, there are several articles related to the convention itself.I am having a difficult time trying to grasp why any U.S. citizen would hope for failure; hope for the enemy to win. Is life here that bad? If it is that bad, why would they not move to a country where life is that much better? We enjoy many freedoms in this nation, ALL of them paid for with BLOOD. Most of that blood was not from people wishing for failure of our military. I didn't say none, I said most. It is ok to oppose Operation Iraqi Freedom, it is not ok to hope for failure by our men and women in uniform. It is not ok to suck all you can out of this country and then dump all over it.picture Never mind, I was able to find the picture and hopefully give an adequate link. It is also apparent to me that these people are in fact supporters of terrorism. They openly support the palestinians, and apparently saddam hussein himself. I might be under the wrong impression here, but I thought the green party was interested in peace. Why then would they rather have a known state sponsor of terror left in power, and show support for people who strap explosives to themselves and murder innocents; regardless of issues with Israel. Another democracy, with freedoms just like we enjoy. I really do fail to understand why they would support, or hope for our men and women to fail. How do they expect anybody to support their party when this is the non-sense that comes out of their national convention? This is about as anti-american as it gets (IMO). They expect me, as a U.S. citizen to give any kind of rational thought to their cause when they will not even show proper respect to our nation? This same nation that gives them the right to dissent? Is this what ralph nader is about? (I know he was not nominated on their ticket) I guess "peace loving" today means support your favorite state sponsor of terrorism. Maybe it means no peace without a suicide bombing. Maybe it means spit on the graves of those who died, were maimed, or were just seperated from their families for long periods of time; just so someone can legally burn the U.S. flag, or hold a sign up hoping the enemy wins. Just a few thoughts.
    Last edited by jasper45; 06-29-2004 at 09:24 AM.

  10. #85
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    Ok I would have voted a “none of the above” but the one thing I will always support is are troops my bro being one of them. He just return from Iraqi after an extended tour …I wont even start on that. o well not impressed with any candidates. P.S. I am not old enough to vote anyway o well

  11. #86
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    Useful Idiots.

    That's actually the term for them -- coined by Lenin himself. (As an aside, great editorial I found while googling to check I had the attributed the quote right -- http://www.metronc.com/Volume_III/me..._01/editorial/ )

    There is still political movements out there that help to organize many of these "protests" to support their own collectivist, totalitarian agendas.
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  12. #87
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    i wonder how Kerry got a 1/2 hour on CNN today to give a campaign speech? anyone see it?
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  13. #88
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    I also saw it. But no one believes that CNN is biased. What a joke. How do the libs get away with most of the crap they say or do.? No one calls them on it but just swoons over them. No wonder FOX news is coming to the front. At least you get something other than liberal views. I thought the news people were only to report what the news is and you decide instead of them putting their spin on it. My 2 cents worth.

  14. #89
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    Default I have a plan...

    This is all you hear from Kerry. "I have a plan for this...I have a plan for that..." Well??? WHAT IS THE PLAN?!?!?!?!?

  15. #90
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    When it comes to John Kerry, I'll stand with my brothers from Stop John and Viet Nam Veterans Against John Kerry and Swift Boat Vets. Senator Kerry! I have not forgotten! Now let the pro Kerry flak fly.

    http://www.stopjohn.com/
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    Last edited by FireLt1951; 07-05-2004 at 01:39 PM.

  16. #91
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    Originally posted by rfcmitch
    And yeah whoever made the comments about Bush tax cuts. I guess your on the higher side of life huh? The tax cuts only really help those that well over 50,000. You have to love their trickle-down theory.
    Glad to hear your supporting Bush......I will be too. Just remember. Those that made over 50,000 pay over 80% of all the taxes. So...In my opinion they deserve the break. Not the guy who makes 20,000 and gets almost everyhting back at the end of the year.

  17. #92
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    The top 1% of wage earners pay 33.9 % of our total income tax collected..
    top 5% pay 53.3 %
    top 10% pay 64.9 %
    top 25% pay 82.9 %
    top 50% pay 96.1 %
    bottom 50% pay 3.9 %

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/prtopincometable.html
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  18. #93
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    Thumbs up

    Kerry repeats Dewey's strategy
    By JIM COOGAN
    All election campaigns have their defining moments. Gerald Ford foundered in 1976 when he momentarily forgot that Poland was under Soviet domination. Ronald Reagan vaulted over other Republican hopefuls in 1980 when he boldly grabbed the microphone in the New Hampshire primary. Ed Muskie's crying, Mike Dukakis' tank ride, George Romney's Vietnam "brainwashing" reference - sometimes it's just a small thing that can derail a candidate.
    John Kerry's unwillingness to cross a union picket line in late June to address the U.S. Conference of Mayors in Boston may have been his defining moment. As Kwame Kilpatrick, mayor of Detroit put it, "It was not a leadership move." In a self-serving, last-minute decision that embarrassed Boston mayor and fellow Democrat Tom Menino, Kerry managed to continue his image as a play-it-safe candidate who doesn't want to do or say anything that might alienate anyone.

    It is a strategy reminiscent of the 1948 presidential campaign where Republican challenger Thomas Dewey took no risks, figuring that his opponent, Harry Truman, was so unpopular that he couldn't lose. That strategy turned out to be a failure.

    Kerry's knuckling under to the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association and the Boston Firefighter's Union might have been more understandable -even necessary, if this were a Massachusetts race. But organized labor has lost much of the national clout that it once had with membership steadily dropping for the last few decades.

    The U.S. Department of Labor says that in 2003 only about 13 percent of wage and salary workers belonged to a union. That means that an overwhelming majority of potential voters around the country could care less who Labor endorses.

    And one has to wonder why Kerry felt it was so important to get the police and firefighters support anyway. Even people like me who have long connections to unions recognize that the police and firefighters are clearly trying to leverage events in Boston this summer to raid the city treasury.

    Boston's rank-and-file police officers make an average of $80,000. They are some of the best paid cops in the entire nation. Even with a high cost of living in the city, they are doing very well. Kerry's solidarity with this group isn't going to play well nationally with swing voters and the rural working class minimum-wage types that he claims to identify with.

    When you talk to people who want the Republicans out in November, there's little excitement when Kerry's name comes up. That he is not George Bush may just not be good enough to convince enough voters to support him.

    Since March, Kerry has spent $60 million on television advertising but a New York Times poll says that 4 in 10 voters can't rate him because they are not sure of his positions.

    He has muddled his explanations on what he really did with his Vietnam medals. We are not sure whether it's his gas guzzling SUV or his wife's. He was originally going to stay within federal campaign finance guidelines, then he changed his mind. He's sent mixed signals on the Iraq war. For a while, it seemed he wasn't even going to accept the nomination at the convention - now he says he will. - (He waffles faster than an Eggo! My own Point Added- TM25)

    And are we really sure that John Edwards was his first choice for VP? It seems that Kerry's decision-making process holds too many "to be or not to be" type calculations.

    Like Tom Dewey in 1948, John Kerry has been content to hold what he sees as a good safe poker hand. To be sure, he's got a couple of aces in George Bush and Dick Cheney.

    But what he may not realize is that unless he can stir the souls of those who are looking for real leadership - something that he hasn't done to date - the rest of the cards might just guarantee a losing hand.



    http://www.capecodonline.com/cctimes.../jimcoogan.htm


    Now I don't care who you are, that's funny! 13 percent? Wow, and here I thought big labor was an influential part of the Country. I guess when we outsourced all those jobs, the union rank and file went too.
    Last edited by TillerMan25; 07-15-2004 at 09:50 AM.
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  19. #94
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    Well i listened to Kerry's speech today to the NAACP, he said the republicans where lying about how he would raise tax's. he said he has a plan to just raise tax's on only the top 1% and actually cut tax's on 98% of tax payers, so there you have it,

    I feel sorry for the 1%, as he wants more money for homeland security, teachers, students, the environment, fire, police, no child left behind, medical plan for everyone, training programs for the unemployed .. yata yata yata

    Its to bad that politicians don't have to put up some charts and show the people how plans like this are possible.. of course it didn't do Perot any good
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  20. #95
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    Regarding Boston,

    I think part of it is that there is a very long standing dislike for each other between John "Flip-Flop" Kerry and Thomas "Mumbles" Menino. Flip-Flop probably saw this as an opportunity to gain favor with those few union people who actually care about it, and also as a chance to slight Mumbles. I am not sure what the dislike is from but it is pretty longstanding.

    Kerry wants to raise taxes on just the top 1% huh? That is funny. Eventually he will need to raise taxes to pay for his socialist programs and the middle class that he "supports" so much in his speeches will again pay the burden for it.

    Remember, John Kerry never met a tax he didn't like, or probably didn't vote for. I still won't be voting for him.

    That article Tiller posted raises a very interesting point. the election will be close, just as the last 3 have been with neither candidate getting over 50% of the votes that will be cast (pretty disgusting if you ask me.) Kerry's problem is that half of the people that will vote for him will do so simply because they dislike Bush so much that he is the only "viable" candidate to defeat him. It is not because they like Kerry or his views, it is that they do not like Bush. Again, a sad state of politics in America.
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    Make mine a bush or bucsh light.

  22. #97
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    How's "Uncle Dick's" second opinion going? I would just like to paste a post I made a while back...in case anyone forgot:

    E229Lt


    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Replacement? Colin Powell or Condy Rice.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    One other thought:

    RUDY, RUDY, RUDY, RUDY......


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  23. #98
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    Interesting article I found on the swiftvets.com site. This is a site run by swift boat veterans who served in Viet Nam. Seems this group that is referred to in the article wholeheartedly believes in Hanoi John.

    http://www.staugustine.com/stories/0..._2435145.shtml
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 07-17-2004 at 01:34 PM.

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    Need I say more?
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    YEAH, HARLEY'S RULE


    Just finished my daily ride on the Road King. True Americana!
    Chief, must have visited the Firefighters for Bush site. You've got to go to a Hanoi John rally with it
    Last edited by FireLt1951; 07-17-2004 at 06:41 PM.

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