1. #1
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    Default ATV fire supression

    I would like to talk over what you folks are doing in regaurds to ATVs in wildland fire suppression.

    I am looking for pumper units and such that would fit in the back of a Yamaha Rhino 660.

    Like this one.

    http://www.off-road.com/atv/reviews/...ha/2004/rhino/

    In our fire district we have a lot of places that are pretty much inaccesable by brush truck. Hike in, hike out. An ATV set up to fight fire like this would be a huge assest and save a lot of sprained ankles and potential heart attacks.

    In a logistical support role, an ATV like this could keep a crew supplied with drinking water, food and such with ease.

    In a suppression role, an ATV like this could get water for mop up to the fire, preventing dreaded dry mopping.

    We have lots of terrain here in Montana that a unit like this would be right at home in.

    Anybody else useing ATVs?

    Experiences?

    Insight?

    Thanks.
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    Default Hey Bro...

    Very interesting subject which I dont know much about.
    I am a big fan of Yamaha and honda since they are so
    reliable.

    Question- Can you also use a trailor too? What about those
    new hi-tech golf cart/cars?

    Also- You might find some more info at this site-

    www.fire.ca.gov

    Good luck- Bou

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    My agency has equipped a MULE with a tank, pump and hose, however, I have had no experience with it. The tank was probably constructed in our shop...and the pump and hose adapted from existing stock. I will effort more details.
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    Default Gator One

    Our District covers a large county owned golf course and several parks. The county recently purchased a 6X6 John Deere Gator with a Med-Bed for bringing patients out of these areas. We have added a 30 gallon tank, on-demand electric pump and small 1/2 inch hose reel for hard to reach areas. If you do not need the Med-Bed, you could add a lot more fire suppression equipment.

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    For use with both a stokes and a small pump/tank the 6x6s like the Ranger would probably be better

    Our Ranger works well for us in a brush fire/remote rescue roll

    The Yamaha Rhino looks like it would do well with a small pump/tank, but doesn't look big enough if you want to carry a stokes.

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    My department is currently constructing an ATV for mountain rescue. I see it in the future helping out with wildland and brush fires. We actually went with a Polaris 6X6. If you haven't seen these, check them out at the polaris website. They have a dump bed, with a 1000 lb payload capacity. We actually are taking that bed off, and putting an aluminum bed, with a fifth wheel type hitch, for a 4 wheel trailer. This trailer will act as a patient transport unit. The thought is to have 2 trailers, one for rescue, and one for wildland fire. We would put a 50 gallon drum, for water, and a small gpm pump for fire suppression, with a small hose and reel. Hope this helps!
    Stay Safe and God Bless!

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    Thanks for the input guys. I kind of have a concept for this unit. As I mentioned, we have some very tight/difficult terrain to deal with in our pristine, untouched by progress or the modern world rural Montana fire district. We wouldnt have it any other way, but it does pose some problems in accessing more remote fires.

    Our county and fire district (2 districts in the county, one 730 square miles, one 940) has relatively little state and fed land. The fire suppression on private of course falls to the volunteers, as does the government land since there are no state or federal fire suppression assest stationed in the county.

    The counties to the west and south of us have much more federal land, and hence a BLM pressence in the form on type 6 engine crews, 2 SEATS, and 1 Bell Longranger. The helo is used to get 3 man crews into remote locations while the fire is still small. Dig handline like hell and then dry mop, used to do that in the summers while I was going to school.

    Our county and fire districts do not have availablility of the air resources or for that matter the ground resources uless we are realy getting our arses kicked by a major wildfire. We would sooner keep them small.

    So, we roll out to a wildfire that starts in difficult terrain, park our brush trucks as close as we can, and then hike in with p.. er I mean backpack pumps and hand tools, and drining water, and luch, and radios, and spare batteries, and PPE, and sleeping bags, and... We, we have a lot of stuff to take in there since you never know how long it is going to take.

    What we are hoping to do is take a Yamaha Rhino and set it up for this mission. We have an old 1 ton brush truck with a flatbed we have been keeping around with the intention of makeing it the hauler. We would have the Rhino set up to support fire suppression in these remote locations. Not quite a helo, but much better then just boots and pulaskies.

    The Rhino hauls 2 and has a 400 pound bed capacity. I envision a CAFS system I will get into later, but one of the major benefits is just being able to haul in the gear. 2 guys can ride, and the other guys can hike. Hiking would be much easier if you didnt have to carry the 60 pounds of gear with you, just load it on the Rhino. IE drinking water, hand tools, food, etc....

    The actual CAFS system would be based on the Macaw CAFS backpack.

    http://www.cdnsafety.com/company/intelagard.html#macaw
    [img]intelagard.com/sparkplug/sites/intelagard/images/MacYWildFire.jpg[/img]

    From website:
    The MACAWTM is the first totally independent compressed air foam (CAF) backpack in the world. It is designed for comfort and durability. The MACAWTM expands the five gallons of carried water protein into as much as 250 gallons of finished foam. A 35 foot projection stream keeps emergency teams safe while providing immediate fire management, vapour suppression exposure protection or bio-chemical decontamination. Ideal for mop up operations, vehicle fires, prescribed burns, industrial area fire control, limited access fire response and equipment decontamination as well as biochemical decontamination.

    The MACAWTM carries 19 litres of mixed foam in 10:1 up to 50:1 expansion ratios depending on type of foam used and expansion Ratio as well as pressure settings.


    That system, loaded with water is 60 pounds.

    Down to 340 capacity. Add a small hand crank hose reel, IE from an air compressor for 10 pounds.

    330, ad in a 12v auxilary pump for water transfer and back up if you are out of HP air, 10.

    320, add in a 35 gallon polly tank, 15 pounds.

    305, add 35 gallons of water approxiamated at 8.3 pounds a gallon for -290 pounds.

    15 pound left over for another HP SCBA cylinder at say 9 pounds.

    The rest of the load would be foam and micilandeous for a slight overload. Some of the stuff could be carries in the cab to get some wight off the back, IE small tools and such, just to balance things out.

    So it would all fit I believe.

    It says on one website that a 45 minute 4500psi cylinder can empty the 5 gallon tank 4 times. So, with 2 cylinders, you could shoot out all 40 gallons of on board water.

    It is listed that you can adjust from 10:1 to 250:1 expansion of the foam.

    That gives you between 400 to 10,000 gallons of Compressed Air Foam.

    That IMO would be a HUGE assest in combating remote fires that only an ATV can get to.

    So, what do you think, any glaring errors? An insight or suggested improvements?

    Other appications of this could include spill responce, decon responce, you name it, just use your imagination.

    OH, and here is what a Rhino looks like.

    [img]www.yamaha-motor.com/products/sxs/500/04RHIN_GRN_4.jpg[/img]

    Yamaha Rhino Specifications.

    Engine
    Type 660cc, 4-Stroke Single, Liquid/Oil Cooled w/ Fan, 5-Valve SOHC
    Bore x Stroke 100mm x 84mm
    Compression Ratio 9.1:1
    Carburetion Mikuni 42mm BSR
    Ignition DC – CDI
    Starting System Electric
    Transmission Yamaha Ultramatic® V-Belt with all-wheel engine braking / High,Low,Neut.,Rev.
    Drive Train Yamaha On-Command® push button 3-way locking differential, 2WD, 4WD, locked 4WD; Shaft
    Chassis
    Suspension/Front Independent Double Wishbone, 7.3” w/ 5-way Preload Adjustment.
    Suspension/Rear Independent Double Wishbone, 7.3” w/ 5-way Preload Adjustment.
    Brakes/Front Dual Hydraulic Disc, Twin Piston
    Brakes/Rear Hydraulic Disc, Self adjust parking system, Shaft Mounted
    Tires/Front 25 x 8-12 NHS
    Tires/Rear 25 x 10-12 NHS
    Dimensions
    L x W x H 113.5” x 54.5” x 72.9”
    Wheelbase 75.3”
    Turning Radius 153.5”
    Ground Clearance 12.1”
    Fuel Capacity 8.5 Gallons
    Dry Weight 1049 Lbs.
    Bed Capacity 400 Lbs.
    Towing Capacity 1212 Lbs.
    Other
    DC Outlet Standard
    Lighting Dual 30W Krypton Multi-reflector Headlights & Dual 21/5W Brake light
    Instrumentation Fuel sight gauge, 4WD Indicator Lights
    Colors Hunter Green; Realtree Hardwoods® High Definition Camouflage
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    Oh, and forgot to mention, the reason we would go Yamaha is that one of our firefighters is a yamaha sales guy. He can get up the unit at cost which should save a couple grand.

    Supposedly the Rhino has been winning all of the competitions against other ATVs in it class. It cant hauls as much, but is supposed to be better off road.

    I would be leary of over loading it to much, but if common sence is used it should be relatively safe, roll cage and all.

    A regular ATV, with no roll cage (IE polaris 6x6) would be a hard see to our fire district board for safety reasons.

    I think we are limited to roll cage units, IE the Rhino or Mule.
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    Sampson - Our Polaris Ranger came with a roll cage, I don't think they sell them without them

    I would look around at all the brands before you buy, even if one of your FFs is a Yamaha Saleman.

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    Thanks for the heads up pfd3501, I wasnt familiar with the Ranger, when you said 6x6 I was thinking about the one that rides like a regular ATV.

    Those are nice looking units, I like the 6x6, lots of capacity to spare. I wonder how they could work in tight terrain, IE trees and such, can they turn pretty short?

    Definatly worth looking at, but they look more expensive, about 10,000!.

    IIRC it is 8500 for a Rhino, but you have twice the rated capacity with the Ranger.

    In reality though, I dont see being able to get round off road very well with 1000 pounds on board. That is a lot of weight for an ATV, even if it is rated at that.
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    Found this in the new apparatus page

    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/app...l.jsp?id=41755

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    We have a Max IV 6x6. It will go about anywhere, even on water. But it's not the best for this usage. We have a dealer across the street, found us a used one with less than 20 hours on it. Got it for about half price. Has a winch, snowplow, rollcage. Will haul 4 people, or 2 with a stokes. For brush fire season we put a 15 gallon tree sprayer and mix in class A foam.

    svfa.org/images/ATV/MVC-004F.JPG

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    Umm, nice paint job cdmrtn7m, is it any good for duck hunting???



    I bet it will go anywhere, but it is likely not to fast.

    Here is one from Fire Solutions:

    http://www.firesolutionsonline.com/a...tionsystem.htm

    CAFS and all!

    I have a similar set up in mind, with more water capacity.

    That Mule looks pretty good also, 60 gallons and a nice hose reel.

    We are seriously starting to look into this as a means of attacking our more hard to rach fires, of which we see to have a significant number each year.

    Nothing I hate worse then waiting for a fire to come to me instead of getting to the fire and kicking its but.
    Last edited by SamsonFCDES; 03-30-2004 at 11:19 AM.
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    Originally posted by SamsonFCDES
    Definatly worth looking at, but they look more expensive, about 10,000!.

    IIRC it is 8500 for a Rhino, but you have twice the rated capacity with the Ranger.

    In reality though, I dont see being able to get round off road very well with 1000 pounds on board. That is a lot of weight for an ATV, even if it is rated at that.
    One thing you have to remember is safety

    On either the rhino or the ranger, a round "drum" tank putst the water up fairly high. The cargo beds on these are high to begin with. Watch it when you run side hill.

    These vehicle get around pretty well off road

    You have to remember that the tires are low pressure and have a lot of foot print, so you can run the rated load and get around pretty well.

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    The department I used to be on (Western North Dakota) built a unit on the Polaris 6X6 (the one you ride like a 4 wheeler). We put a 20-30 gallon tank on it with a 5 hp diaphram pump (the whole pumping unit was built on a sub frame so 2 guys could remove it for rescue operations). We also use 50 ft of heat rated 3/4 hose and a standard brass nozzle (forest service suggested this to us because it is what they use). For further reach we had another 100 ft of 3/4 soft hose (just like the bigger stuff on the pumpers only smaller, fits into a 8" x 8" bag). The biggest help was a 6' x 8' harrow drag that we used to put out smoldering cow pies and alot of times the flame front itself (always on the up wind side as the flame heigths were smaller, worked great but be prepared to get dirty). This alone gave our bigger pumpers more time and help to fight the down wind flames and really shorten our overhaul of pasture lands. In areas where we couldn't get a truck in we could get this thing in and alot of times haul a few guys in with the trailer.
    At the hall whole thing sits in the trailer with a drop gate (where we mounted the drag for transport), the unit is equiped with a winch which also ties it to the trailer. The whole setup was ready to be dropped onto the hitch of our second grass unit. Once at the scene we back the unit off disconnected the trailer and started fighting the fire. If we needed to haul guys the 6X6 hooked up to the trailer and the guys piled in. It also collected the guys on foot at the end of overhaul. For the money we had invested it was cheap and through it didn't completly replace a grass unit it is very effective. If you have alot of pasture lands look into the harrow drag puts out alot of fire with very little effort.

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    We have a Cub Cadet Big Country that we have set up with a couple skid units for different uses. We are currently working on a grass fire skid. Currently we have it set up for HAZMAT and EMS. Also check out Fire/Rescue Mag....they have a article about stokes trailers for ATV's.
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    We have been using a Polaris 6x6 for about 5 years now with good results. It has a huge cargo capacity, and is more stable than you would expect, and can transport either a patient in a stokes basket, or a wildland kit.

    The downside is that it only carries one person, and when fitted with a water tank, the weight is up high. Not always the safest in our mountain environment. It does go anywhere however.

    The 6x6 is due to be retired next year, and I think we are going to go with the Rhino next. The reduced cargo capacity is a bit disappointing, but the side by side almost makes up for it.

    I demoed the Mule, a Gator, and a Clubcar off-road golf cart, and they don't have either the power or the suspension travel required for our type of back country duty. The Gator was especially useless on steep, bumpy terrain. The lack of suspension really left you bruised, and it couldn't climb a steep hill at any more than about 2 mph. The Clubcar might have been ok if it had more climbing power, but wasn't actually 4x4 (locking diff only).

    The Rhino does seem to be the new king in this area.
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    Originally posted by mcaldwell

    The 6x6 is due to be retired next year, and I think we are going to go with the Rhino next. The reduced cargo capacity is a bit disappointing, but the side by side almost makes up for it.

    I demoed the Mule, a Gator, and a Clubcar off-road golf cart, and they don't have either the power or the suspension travel required for our type of back country duty. The Gator was especially useless on steep, bumpy terrain. The lack of suspension really left you bruised, and it couldn't climb a steep hill at any more than about 2 mph. The Clubcar might have been ok if it had more climbing power, but wasn't actually 4x4 (locking diff only).

    The Rhino does seem to be the new king in this area.
    Those are the same lines I am thinking on. The Rhino, from my research so far (no test drives) seems to out perform the other ATVs for off raod ability and general performance except in the cargo capacity.

    The system we have in mind would come in just under 400 pounds, so that would not be a big problem, and the added mobility IMO is more important.

    Here is a realy heavy hitter, for ATVs that is, just found it.

    http://www.diamondgconcepts.com/

    2200 pounds capacity, but it doesnt look very fast (just a Kohler motor), it probly crawls like a tank though.

    I still think the Rhino is looking pretty good, much more refined in the ATV sence. There are a ton of options for the slip on unit as well.

    Another thing that keeps being mentioned about the Rhino is its size, it is considerably smaller then its competitors. They say it can go nearly everywhere a conventional 4x4 ATV can, trail width is not much of an issue. Some of the others, IE Mule, are wider and trail width gets to be an issue.
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    Yes the paint job is quite unique, and a few of the guys did want to use it for hunting!! Somebody put a lot of work into it, but I would have liked a red one! The top speed is 26 MPH, which is more than enough for me. The EMS service I work for has a mule, They've stuck it more than once.

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    My dept purchased a Mule that we are fitting with 2 "modules." 1 for EMS rescue...stokes tie down, boxes holding equipent that are secured to the bed, and 1 for wildland/brush fires. looking at getting a "pesticide" tank for it with a pump and small diameter hose. We have outfitted it with a mobile radio, floodlights in the front and back (the headlights to me anyway are too "directional" and it's nice having light in the back if you're with a patient or need to see behind you.) We also decided to put strobes on it for working along roadsides and if we have to drive it on the road. It has a winch as an option, and like any off road vehicle, I would strongly recommend it so you can pull your ***** out if you get stuck.
    And yes...we got the red one..although some members wanted to get the camo so they could use it hunting, along with the TIC
    The comments made by me are my opinions only, not of the Fire and EMS services I am affiliated with.

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    Does anybody have some pictures of one of those trailer/stokes basket carriers that they could post on-line? We have a gator that has an approx. 70 gal. square poly tank designed to fit in the box. The tank has a baffel in both directions (forming a cross. Mounted on top of the tank is a 5 hp Darley high pressure pump that is plumbed into a small reel that has 3/4" booster type hose on it. We are also able to connect 1" forestry hose to the pump. I was thinking that being able to connect a simply trailer to the hitch would make hauling a patient out easier than carrying by hand or with a cobbled together setup.

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    Check this website if you have not already: http://www.airkwik.com
    They have a Gator I believe it is that they have outfitted with a CAFS. I have checked into their products, and they are reasonably priced. And if you were pretty crafty, you could probably build one on your own.

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    Default Fire Wagons

    Check out the nichols trailers fire wagon. 250 gallon tank with a 4.5 HP water pump, 8 rake and shovel holders, hose storage, Indian tank storage plus removeable lights. It can be towed behind a UTV,ATV or your 4x4. Check out thier wab site for that trailer and the latest generation of off road rescue trailer as well.

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