FDNy VS the Vollies.

[JAFO2004]

Ok, so what is going on with the UFA going against the rights of the FDNY to volunteer and teach the vollies what they know,and to serve the community inwhich they live in.......??

[E229Lt]

Ok, so what is going on with the UFA going against the rights of the FDNY to volunteer and teach the vollies what they know,and to serve the community inwhich they live in.......??

JAFO2004

I'll assume you are a volunteer and if so, have bylaws you must follow. So do the members of the IAFF. Any other rambling questions?

[fdnyvet]

What exactly was the question or the point trying to be made here? I am a member of the FDNY and a Vollie. We have rules and regs in both Depts.

[JAFO2004]

Article XVI

(new) Section 3

Any UFA member found working a secondary job as a paid-on-call firefighter for a non-profit corporation, or a private fire protection or emergency medical services to a city, county, municipality, or fire protection district as a volunteer, reserve, part-time, part paid, firefighter, where such employment jeopardizes an IAFF affiliate, may be declared "a member not in good standing".


A member not in good standing shall not be eligible for UFA Group Insurances and other group rates to members of the UFA. In addition, their names shall be published in official union notification, no less than once a year.
(new) Section 4

No member shall be found in violation of Section 3 above except upon written charges setting forth the alleged facts of the violation

The charges must be delivered to the member charged and the Recording Secretary of the UFA in advance of the first general meeting of the membership at which the charges are to be read.


A special committee, consisting of one Delegate from each borough selected by the UFA President shall be convened, and undertake a full investigation in order to make a recommendation at said first general meeting at which the charges are to be read.


Said special committee shall be appointed by the President within 10 days of the receipt of charges by the Recording Secretary and shall complete its investigation no later than 30 days after having been formed. The charges shall be initially considered at the first general membership meeting held after the committee completes its investigation.



Both the member bringing the charges and the member charged shall have an opportunity to present an oral statement and any written material relevant to the issue at each general membership meeting where the charges are read.


No member may be found in violation of Section 3 of this article except upon an affirmative vote of 2/3 of those present and voting at two consecutive general membership meetings where the charges must be read.
Proposed by FF Dean Stephan, Ladder 154
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[fdnyvet]

This is news to me! It would be a shame that the UFA would take this posistion. This is the reason why I dont let the job (FDNY) know that I am also a vollie. If I dont volunteer, who will? Such B.S.

[ADSNWFLD]

Where is the rule that says that you can't be a plumber, carpenter, electrician, painter, etc on your days off, Those are union jobs. If you work the trades on your days off aren't you taking union jobs?

[fdnyvet]

I just did a little research. These are proposed constitution amendments to the UFA. It must be voted on, and hopefully shot down.

[EFD840]

It isn't my fight but doesn't the clause where such employment jeopardizes an IAFF affiliate pretty much protect members of all vollie departments? If there's no IAFF affiliate in the town, then there's really nobody to jeopradize.

[CdnFyreGuy]

It's funny that this topic came up. I was just reading an article about the "two hatter" issue in Ontario. I will not take sides here but sounds similar to what you gentlemen are discussing. I believe there are now government officials and all kinds of union people involved in the Ontario debate. Basically the union 's don't want members working two places/jobs, one full-time, one volunteer. Vollie dept's want these people in for experience and to fill spots. Again I am not siding with anyone here. Just might be something for you to look up and investigate for those interested.

[blancety]

The horse is dead gentlemen...

the same horse was killed in Maryland...

and the same one killed in Hartford...

[WTFD10]

ROUND 3,652,125 DING DING DING

[radioguy]

Originally posted by E229Lt


JAFO2004

I'll assume you are a volunteer and if so, have bylaws you must follow. So do the members of the IAFF. Any other rambling questions?

You actually think you make a valid analogy?

Show me one volunteer department that regulates what members do on thier own time. Or own that prohibits being a career firefighter as well? Show me one that makes rules that purpousley hurt other districts simply for thier own financial gain?


I find it funny that the same bunch who rant and complain about politicians cutting manning for thier own personal or political gain are more than willing to follow, support, and defend an organization that does virtually the same thing, it hurts manning of volunteer departments by prohibiting those who would otherwise serve from doing so, for thier own financial and political gain.

The same folks who rave about how big a hurt it is to a city when engines go from 5 to 4 man crews have no problem prohibiting that firefighter who would be the 5th on a volunteer engine from responding when they can.

I can't understand that logic, the politicians are evil when they do it to you but it's somehow just fine and dandy when your union does it to a volunteer company, so long as the union stands to gain a little money and power from it.

[radioguy]

Originally posted by EFD840
It isn't my fight but doesn't the clause where such employment jeopardizes an IAFF affiliate pretty much protect members of all vollie departments? If there's no IAFF affiliate in the town, then there's really nobody to jeopradize.

Depends on your view, some hardcore union members see every volunteer house, combo station, and paid on call firefighter as one that could employ union members or a new union member, no matter how asanine and out of touch with reality the concept.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Originally posted by hfd66truck
The horse is dead gentlemen...

the same horse was killed in Maryland...

and the same one killed in Hartford...

I agree with my esteemed colleague from Harwich.

The horse has been dead for quite some time.

The hide has been beaten away, the flesh torn from the bones, and the bones have now been pulverized...

Let us deal with the real challenges that we face.

[ADSNWFLD]

If it were dead then the IAFF wouldn't keep bringing it up.
The department I work for part time has lost several good firefighters due to those same rules.

[blancety]

If it were dead then the IAFF wouldn't keep bringing it up.
The department I work for part time has lost several good firefighters due to those same rules.

I was refering to our discussion here. It gonna go down the same road, and we'll all end up at the same place.

Some think that the IAFF shouldn't be able to tell you what to do when your are off duty. (note this is UFA this time).

Others think that they joined the Union they agreed to abide by its Constitution and Bylaws, so though they may personally disagree, they follow the rules.

And yet others think that as long as its in an area that has no career firefighters, they can continue to do so.

And yet still others think that they should not be paying for potential injuries to "their" firefighters that were incurred while said firefighter volunteered somewhere else.

I am sure there might be some abstract opinions I missed.

Agree to disagree gentlemen.......before all the same BS and insults start flying.


Dave

[FFFRED]

You actually think you make a valid analogy?

Show me one volunteer department that regulates what members do on thier own time. Or own that prohibits being a career firefighter as well? Show me one that makes rules that purpousley hurt other districts simply for thier own financial gain?

radioguy,

I don't know about the vollys out by you but I know of plenty of Vol FDs around Long Island and Upstate that regulate where you can live to be a member...also most have rules stating you can not be a member of another vol dept. Also they have rules on how many runs you MUST show up to and how many fundraisers you MUST show up to.

All of the above regulate what you can do in your own free time. Are you also against volly FDs that prevent members from belonging to more than one company?

FTM-PTB

[E229Lt]

Show me one volunteer department that regulates what members do on thier own time. Or own that prohibits being a career firefighter as well? Show me one that makes rules that purpousley hurt other districts simply for thier own financial gain?

It may not be what you're looking for, but the State of NY will not allow you, a trained firefighter, to serve more than one department. Why is that? So assuming all volunteer deparments remain within the law, I would say every one of them "regulates what members do on thier own time."

New York State Consolidated Laws

Ch 64. S. 10-1006. 10. A person shall not be eligible to volunteer membership in more than one fire company at one time.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Addison,
If it wasnt for all the SCABS(not volunteers) that find it necessary to WORK (not volunteer)on departments that could and should hire fulltime firefighters here in Northern Illinois, there would be MORE fulltime positions available for people entering the fire service here. But due to GREEDINESS and lack of anything better to do on their time off, there are plenty of PAID firefighters that are taking jobs away from people that could use them. I can roll off the names of the towns that utilize career people who work for less then what they make at there fulltime gigs. I am sure you would be the first one screaming if Addison decided to hire off duty paid people to fill in your ranks. Just the other day our Mayor threatend one of our E- board members with "We could go all part-time and really save" ..Nice. And I dont care what you say. If you WORK (not volunteer) on another department on your days off you are a SCAB. This is not directed at people that are volunteer, POC or part-time and not a career person. It is directed at those selfish "Brothers" that would complain the loudest if tha same thing happend to them.

[Weruj1]

on a lighter note ..........Dave nice avatar !! is that your lid ?