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    Default Tulsa Fire Dept.

    was wondering if anyone had any news on tulsa fire. i am currently in the loop, waiting for the next PAT. i also know they are doing 2 back to back academies. has anyone heard if they have started the first academey yet? they did a whole bunch of background checks around october i think any news would be great. any other hopefuls out there? hope to hear from someone.

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    Default TFD

    Hey,

    No news on the Tulsa Fire Department. I will be taking the next written test.. Hopefully in May. Waiting for the next update on the machine!!! I am out of state so I am waiting to get this all organized! When did you take you're written?


    Cole

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    i took the test in sept. and have already gone through the structured interview. now just waiting for the next PAT. i think it's coming up here soon. i'm from out of state too. i drove about 2 hours each time to get up there. the PAT is pretty hard, i've tried once and failed on the search event. i took my hand off the wall and got turned around. luckly they kept me in the loop. so now it's just a wait and see. like i said though i think they are doing the next PAT sometime soon though. good luck man and hopefully we'll get to meet on the job someday.

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    Default Tulsa Fire

    TFD hired 40 that will start the academy sometime in July. I know severl guys that got hired. I been trying for 4 years to get on with this Dept. It's my Dream Job. I have been told by people with TFD that they are going to hire another class of 30-40 that will start the academy in january of 05. Tulsa is having alot of guys retire and the hiring freeze of last year has left them short. Its gotten bad enough where they had to put companies out of service due to lack of personel. I have been told the PAT for the next academy will be june or july. I hope june, it gets too hot here in july. I was sent my BIQ last month and was told to have the finished BIQ in hand when i show up for the PAT. Tulsa is a great fire dept. and one of the best in this part of the country. Good luck to you guys.
    Shawn Clark
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    Tulsa Fire Dept. E-23 "C Platoon"
    I.A.F.F. Local 176
    Tulsa, OK

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    i emailed the H.R. dept. head the other day and he says the next PAT might be in late june. i noticed that they won't be testing in june or july( written test ) so it looks like late june or early july. anybody going to the physical fitness classes? i'm thinking about going to see if i can get some help with the search event. that was what got me last time. so have those BIQ's ready and hope to see you guys there. by the way osufirepro how far along are you in the process? and scorch did you take the test yet and where are you located? i figure if we help each other out maybe it'll increase our chance of getting the job. just an idea guys.

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    I have my BIQ completed and am waiting to take the PAT.
    Shawn Clark
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    Tulsa Fire Dept. E-23 "C Platoon"
    I.A.F.F. Local 176
    Tulsa, OK

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    Default Physical Agility

    Physical Agility

    Here's a segment from the Physical Agility Article in the Career Article section from the Jobs drop down menu just above this posting.

    Often, candidates don't realize that it's not just strength in the physical agility. The "Nugget " is technique, momentum and grip. If you are uncertain or having problems in the physical, take advantage of any college or academy programs to learn the techniques to practice pulling hose, throwing a ladder, dragging a dummy (not you), etc. Many departments offer practice "run-through" sessions for their physical test prior to the actual date of testing. Don't pass up this opportunity.

    You don't want any surprises during the physical agility. You need to have practiced hands on with every segment of the agility. Too many candidates think they are in great shape. One who did not take advantage of the practice session told me, "Hey, that 75 pound hose pack was heavy. Humping that hose bundle up the tower, hosting and other manipulative skills, then back down the tower steps made my lungs burn (they were still burning days later) and caused the loss of valuable seconds." The best way to train for this event is to up the cardio by going up and down bleachers with a backpack with weights or a weighted vest from www.WeightVest.com

    You can read the complete article in the Career Article section from the Jobs drop down menu just above this posting.

    “Nothing counts ‘til you have the badge . . . Nothing!”

    BOB SMITH
    Firehouse.Com Contributor

    www.eatstress.com

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    i'm not really worried about the other events. it's the search event that got me last time. any pointers would be great. i did a run through of the PAT after my structured interview and did fine, but the search event was off limits. i think this had to do with them not being able to change the maze. a lot of my first faluire was psyching myself out and taking my hand off the wall. but i know there are other tricks out there. basically i want me not getting hired to do with them not wanting me. if i get past the PAT then it's in someone else's hands if i get the badge. i'm very confident in the knowledge that this is my job to lose. i think all of us on this board feel this way, you have to or second guessing will destory you. i sure wish there was more tulsa hopefuls out there!!! well good luck to everyone in the midst of testing no matter where and hope we all are brothers someday.

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    Default Don't get lost

    tulsahopeful wrote:

    if i get past the PAT then it's in someone else's hands if i get the badge.

    Does the Tulsa PAT come before or after the oral? If the oral comes after the PAT that's where the decision is going to be decided.

    This might help:

    Search: Get in and get out! You may not move like a greased pig at the fair but you do need to move. One candidate wrote: Here is where I lost about 15-20 seconds. The event itself is pretty fun if you are not claustrophobic. Be aware of the obstacles inside. I could not figure one out, and I got disoriented and lost precious time figuring it out. Crawl fast as there are no abrupt edges that you'll run into. All the walls are tapered so as long as you keep your head down you can fly through. Doing the practice "run-throughs" will take away all doubt of what and where the obstructions are in tunnel crawl.

    Always remember to stay right, and come back to your right after an obstacle. The event is shaped in a horseshoe, so there are two right turns. This can be a good time to catch your breath as well in preparation for the dummy drag.

    Captain Bob

    www.eatstress.com

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    Capt. Bob...
    thanks for the responses. the tulsa selection process is as follows. written test(pass/fail),structured interview(pass/fail),PAT(pass/fail), background interview, then last but not least job offer(still have to pass medical,psych, and climb ladder). i have been through the structured interview which is 5 questions. you have 3 people who grade you in this. i've been through a run through of the PAT test, but they won't let you practice the search event. now the backround interview is the BIG one i think. that's where the hiring is made. i have some things on my background that are going to be tough to go around, but i'm working on that now. thanks again for the advice though.

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    Default Game Day

    You might find that in addition to the background there are land mines at every remaining step including the dreaded psych. If you have questions on your background you can e-mail me at captbob@eatstress.com of call the number below. This might help:

    After you have jumped through all the flaming hoops you don’t want to be caught flat-footed for the remaining steps in the hiring process. It’s 3rd down and 2 yards to go for the badge. You want to convert. You want to convert every step of this process the first time through the line, or you could be thrown for a loss, thrown in the penalty box, out of the game, and trying to fight your way back in.

    You can spin this anyway you want. But ask yourself if you would you show up without preparing for the written? Not in shape for the physical agility? Have you discovered you just can’t wing the oral? Then, why doesn’t it make since to prepare for the remaining portions of the hiring process, the background, psych, poly and medical?

    Don’t be so naive to believe by the 4 inches between your ears you have an explanation that everything in your past will be overlooked, especially if it’s something you weren’t required to reveal in the first place. If you do, you might still believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. Come on in said the spider to the fly. Don’t take the bait! It’s not the department but the background investigators and the psychologist that could take you out. These people are not your friends. They are experts being paid to eliminate you from the process. The deck is stacked against you before you show up.

    I get the calls when the background has not gone right for too many candidates. The first words out of their mouth when I pick up the phone is usually, “What do I do now?” I ask them two questions. First, were you honest to a fault leaving not rock unturned? Did you volunteer information that you were not required to give? They usually answer yes to both. Than that’s probably why you failed. The defense rests.

    A candidate just called and said the background investigator told him a poly would be given to verify his information. My first question, “Was it listed on the job announcement that there was going to be a poly? No. If it was not included in the job announcement and or they are going to give a poly to everyone else, that’s BS. It’s not uncommon for a background investigator or psychologist to say, “Will you submit to a poly to verify your answers? Or, a poly could or will be given at the end of the process.” Are they lying? Yep. Wait a minute, I thought everyone was not suppose to tell the truth here? I’m not aware of any test where the candidates were held hostage with the threat of a poly being given, when it was not included with the job announcement, and they had to take one. I know of candidates who were turned down and wanted to take a poly to prove they were telling the truth and they couldn’t get one because they would have to give it to everyone else.

    They often say, I didn’t think what I told them was any big deal, but some of those little things that I really didn’t have to talk about amounted to causing me big problems in the process. As one candidate said, “Hey, I’m not a bad guy. But I volunteered a little something here and then there. By the time they got done with me, they made me look like Charles Manson!

    I had a chance to work with a psychologist in preparing our Conquer the Psychological Interview Special Report. I couldn’t believe some of the answers candidates tossed out in their interview with the psychologist. When I asked the psychologist how did you get them to say that? He smiled and said, “We just asked them.” Wouldn’t you want to be prepared so you wouldn’t just blurt out something you were not required to say? Here is a segment of that report:

    “Psychologists are given more power than they should,” says Robert Thomas Flint, Ph.D., who sometimes did re-evaluations of potential peace officers and firefighters who have failed psychological tests. Although he tends to agree 40-50% of the original decisions were valid, he finds that another 30-50% of the rejected candidates are acceptable and can handle the job.

    The psychological test is changing the fire service. Sure there are some folks who have a lot of baggage and shouldn’t be hired. But most of the red-hot’s, the backbone of the fire service, can’t make it through the process. Surprisingly, the evaluations are based on the performance of those already in the fire service.

    More and more agencies are using the psychological test in their hiring process. Psychologists are competing for this lucrative business and agencies feel they need this service to hire the right candidates. In one large department forty-percent of candidates were eliminated from the hiring process through the psychological tests. Fire administrations feel their hands are tied and get frustrated when they see that a high percentage of their superior candidates who were eliminated by their physiological test are being hired by other agencies. If the psych is so important why is it not used at all in Canada? Some departments who have been using he psych have stopped because of the candidates it was delivering.

    Dr. Flint feels that the PhD has been watered down, i.e., many of graduates in the last ten years, and the psychologist too often paint by the numbers and disqualify a person because they might have an unusual background. These psychologists do not have an adequate background in the statistics and the research necessary to be fully competent in the use of tests with unusual populations. That is, they are trained in identifying problems in the general population but are less skilled in the identifying the strengths in special groups such as firefighters. They also tend to have difficulty incorporating unusual backgrounds into their reports. But, don’t a higher percentage of those with a burning desire for this job fall into these categories?

    Much of the problem falls on the cities themselves for not having control of the guidelines that the psychologists are using. Left on their own, psychologists will use their own devises to decide what to do, and this is not always related to the department’s needs. If the guidelines are not well defined by the agency, then the psychologist might wash the candidate out for reasons not job relevant.

    A large bay area city was a perfect example of this process. A member of personnel and a fire recruiter teamed up to upgrade the selection process and add the polygraph. Because of the cost of living this city was already pulling their hair out trying to recruit candidates, particularly medics. This new system only made the problem worst. Forty-two percent of the medic candidates and half the lateral candidates failed. Many of these candidates went on to pass other backgrounds, psych and yes, polys. In a conversation with the recruiter at an exhibition I said you sure are losing a lot of candidates. His reply with a snear was, not the right candidates. Well, with a new fire chief, personnel director and firefighter recruiter they are trying to put the pieces back together.

    According to Dr. Flint, too much emphasis is placed on the paper and pencil test. He feels strongly that unusual test scores should be evaluated in the light of the candidate’s history. Very young candidates 21-25 often do not have enough history to refute problems suggested on the test. All candidates believe of course that they can handle the job, that they can meet any challenges, that they will hold up well at emergencies. The psychologist’s job is to determine, as closely as possible whether those beliefs are sound. To give someone the benefit of the doubt maybe endangering them or someone else.

    If a candidate can demonstrate that he has overcome areas of conflict that the written test reveals and his early history demonstrates, then the test interpretation should reflect that fact. The paper score then should be thrown out, not the candidate.
    More on the psych here http://www.eatstress.com/psych.htm

    Those who are critical about what we are saying here usually don’t have a clue what we do. I want candidates to be prepared for each step of the hiring process, where the land mines are and understand the ramifications of the information they present in the process.

    You have spent all this time gaining education, experience and training to get this job. You finally get a shot at the badge. You get a conditional job offer. You’re ecstatic. You call family and friends. You meet with the background investigator. You think he’s your pal. You go for your psych. No big deal right? Then a letter arrives from the department withdrawing their job offer. You’re stunned! There has to be a mistake. You want to talk to someone. You had the explanation you knew they would accept. No one will talk to you. You’re out of the process. The reason? You walked in flat-footed not prepared for the remaining segments of the hiring process.

    As one candidate wrote: As for Backgrounds; they tell you to be honest. But sometimes being to honest can bite you in the ***. When a Background is being conducted the only obvious things they could find out are things like your driving, criminal and credit history. Don't be stupid and write down references that hate you. I've know some good people that should be fireman/cops but get disqualified for being to honest.

    You’re a free agent. Make sure you prepare for the hiring process in a way that will best put you in a position for a badge.

    "Nothing counts 'til you have the badge . . . Nothing!"

    Fire "Captain Bob"

    www.eatstress.com

    888-238-3959

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    well it looks like the Gods shine upon me. the PAT for Tulsa is on!! i go test on the 22nd and i'm ready. i've visualized myself breezing through it. i've worked out for 3 solid months getting ready for this. i wish the 2 other people who posted that are going through the process are the best of luck also. keep those fingers crossed for me guys(and girls) this could be a dream come true!!

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    well i smoked the tulsa PAT! it was very hard but very rewarding too. my one big words of advice. don't take your hand off the upright wall you choose to use and you'll be all good. you have 1min. and 9 seconds to do it and i did it in 30 seconds. it was the thing i worried about the most and i had the most fun doing it. now i go to a background interview and background check. i'm not clean in my background but i'll keep my fingers crossed. and either way i'm a persistant bastard and will keep going untill i get hired or i reach the age limit. how did others do?

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    Congrats on the PAT. I passed too. I have heard 40 and I have also heard 50 are going to be hired for the January class. Those are pretty good odds. 90 some are taking the PAT this week. Last go around 90-100 took the PAT and they only interviewd 52. I seen 2 guys fail on my PAT day; so thats 2 down. Good luck.
    Shawn Clark
    Firefighter/Paramedic
    Tulsa Fire Dept. E-23 "C Platoon"
    I.A.F.F. Local 176
    Tulsa, OK

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    congrats for you too. from the news i've gotten it looks like 40 will be hired. that's what i've heard from the HR guy and recruiter. but you never know with these things. from the sign up sheet it looks like only about 60 spots were open for interviews(10 times on each sheet if i recall right). we'll also be competing with those who did the PAT last time and have already gotten a background interview. of course they still have to pass the PAT, but will not have to attend a interview this time around. i showed up about an hour early so i didn't get to see how others did. but last time they said around half were failing. it's either the stepmill, search event, or pike lift and pull that was getting them. anyway good luck man. hopefully we'll both get the job and meet in the academy!!

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    Post Tulsa Fire

    I am also a Tulsa Fire hopeful; also live out of state in NW Arkansas. I am planning to test take the written test in August. I took the written exam before, but it was right before the hiring freeze.

    What kind of exercises / workout routine did you guys do to get ready for the TFD PAT?

    Congrats on your passing of the PAT!
    Last edited by AshFireBuff; 06-26-2004 at 11:00 PM.

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    hey small world i live in NW Arkansas too. i jogged a mile and a half every other day, and ran stairs for 20 min. on days i didn't jog. i also lifted weights every other day. running the stairs was the best it gets them ready for the test the best so your legs don't feel like jelly after the stepmill. run some sprints too to bulid up some more endurance. i'm no expert or personal trainer so take this advice with a grain of salt, but it helped me. also no matter what DON'T I REPEAT DON'T TAKE YOUR HAND OFF THE UPRIGHT WALL YOU CHOOSE IN THE SEARCH EVENT. other than that the pike pole event is the hardest. by the way have you looked into getting on with rogers fire dept.? they are expanding alot and hiring i think along with fayeyyeville too. both cities are getting new stations soon. i'm past the age limit so no option for me. anyway good luck, hope things work out.

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    Default TFD Follow Up

    Thanks for writing back. It is a small world.

    I'm a dispatcher for Springdale, and I am quickly approaching the Arkansas cut off age. I have a few friends that work for the TFD. It is a great department. I'll test for Springdale and Fayetteville in the fall.

    When you did your weight lifting, did you do work each muscle group more than once per week?

    I have been thinking about doing weights + bodyweight exercises + Cardio. I need to start running....I hate running. LOL

    Keep in touch!

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    i did arms( curls, tricep extensions,)shoulders, and chest excersises. also alot of crunches. i also ran stairs with a backpack with around 20 pounds of books in it. i've been waiting for bentonville to start hiring full-time, but it doesn't look like that is going to happen anytime soon. Tulsa is the job i want. i wanna be knee deep in the stuff. i wanna earn my paycheck. don't get me wrong i'm sure springdale and fayetteville and the other cities get thier work, but i wanna work in a city. i'm not from here i moved here from K.C. and was really shocked about the age limits. i had just turned 32 when i moved here, so it sucked. fayetteville is a good dept. though. i'd really like to work for them, but can't.

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    Tulsa is a great department. They are very progressive with firefighting and fire service EMS providing (paramedic engine company). I have been a fire buff of Tulsa ever since I was in junior high school.

    You can listen to their radio traffic on www.firefeeds.com

    What made you get interested in Tulsa or the fire service in general?

    I became interested due to "Emergency!" and my grandmother was a nurse. I love emergency service work.

    Tulsa is certainly a busy department. Dispatch after dispatch. They go on lots of EMS calls, which is good for the citizens - good customer service. They were their fires, too. I would say 1-2 working fires per day - on average.

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    yeah i grew up watching that show too! i was always intrested in the fire service, but i thought you already had to be trained to get the job. where i'm from alot of firefighter hopefuls attented community college and got all thier certs and stuff. so i never looked into it. well about 3 years ago i had a big wake up call in my life. as a suggestion from my brother he told me i should try to do it. he thought the backbone ideas of the fire service fit me like a glove(camradire, brotherhood,etc.). so i began the search that has lead me up to now. Tulsa came as a surprise really. when i moved down to Arkansas i was in shock about the age limits. i thought i'd be able to work here. so i was about ready to give up my dream. then a friend told me about Tulsa. there is so much more to this story but i don't want to ramble and it is personal so there you have it.

    so have you tested in springdale and fayetteville before? why didn't you test in Tulsa sooner so you could be considered for the Jan. 05 academy? have you started your workout program yet? good luck man. as i'm sure you know it will be the hardest thing but most rewarding thing you ever put yourself through. i've learned so much about myself through this process. i hope it keeps going and i pray i get the job.

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    Another Tulsa hopeful here. Aside from the upcoming January class, what have you guys heard about other future hirings? Is there going to be another class after January? I know that they have not hired in some time now and are quite short on manpower. I will be taking the written in August. I also have wanted to work for Tulsa for years now. I can wait though, currently I have a great job with the Department of Health helping to plan what are state's reaction will be to a bio terrorism attack, but it is not what I want to be doing. Hopefully it will be something that I will be able to use in applying with and interviewing for TFD. I rambled on sorry, any help or information that you guys can provide would be outstanding and good luck to those of you who are almost there, I envy you!

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    all i know is they are hiring around 40 for Jan and they are starting a academy in July with 40. other than that i have not heard anything else about hiring. the funny thing about this post is i started it around april or may i think and now it's getting some play. glad there are more Tulsa hopefuls out there. good luck to you.

    it seems like osufirepro is more in the know than anyone here, but he hasn't posted inawhile. i would either email the recuiter (email add. is on tulsa fire website ) or call the job hotline. also with your job you might have some O.K.C. firfighter friends who could look up the info faster and with much more clarity. why not O.K.C. fire dept. anyway?

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    I would love to work for OKC but they do not think that they will be testing for a while. Tulsa is the one big department that I have heard was hiring. Do you know at all if the January class is coming from those that have already tested or if it will also include the test coming up in August. Just a thought and thanks for the information.

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    i think it is just coming from those who have already tested. but i could be wrong. you should contact the recruiter for better info.

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