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  1. #1
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    Default flying stretch or backstretch?

    I wanted to know the personal preferences out there for different types of handline stretches...
    Do you prefer:
    1. (Flying stretch) Stop at the hydrant before the fire building, lay in supply line and "pull the crosslay" with the engine near the fire building and have the second due pick up your supply line.
    OR
    2. (Backstretch) Pull up to the front of the building, pull off enough handline to get inside the building and have the engine lay out the remainder of the line as it goes onto the hydrant past the fire building and secure your own water.

    I know there are benefits to each stretch and situational considerations but I've noticed a trend in companies doing the Fying stretch with the Backstretch becoming a lost art...


  2. #2
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    We are really only set up for the flying stretch. We use 4 inch supply line, and with our hydrant spacing I doubt we backstretch in most areas. Ever reverse lays, with the first due staying at the fire and the second laying away are rare.

    Its good to be prepared to do either.....

    Dave

  3. #3
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    we only use forward lay stretches...im not sure any of the guys on the department even know how a reverse lay would work on paper let alone how to implement it on scene...the only time i could see the need for us to use a reverse lay would be if we stop at the building where the call came in and only found fire after an investigation...usually if the call comes over with either the word fire or smoke in the message, we hit the hydrant (more like "I" hit the hydrant, cause you'll never see one of the "more experienced" guys doin it)...

  4. #4
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    We are set up for a reverse lay. With the fourth largest industrial park in Illinois, preconnects would not be practical. It isn't unusual to streatch 300+ feet into a factory.
    We also have a fair amount of appartment buildings and a 200 or even 250' preconnect wouldn't get us everywhere we need to be.
    Now the part time department I work at is a small bedroom community and we use preconnects 90% or more.

    As for what is better, they both have their place. You need to look at what you respond to and set up the beds to match the district.

  5. #5
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    Default

    It depends primarily on (1) hydraulics and (2) equipment. If you are the only engine responding and there is a hydrant available but at a low pressure, a reverse lay would be preferred. If the hydrant can supply the required fire flow for the distance from the hydrant to the fire, a forward lay should be used.

    If you have a 2-piece engine company responding, a forward lay would be used in most situations.

    If you are using LDH which is limited to 185 psi, make certain you don't pump a distance and at a flow rate that will result in exceeding 185 psi.

    There are many variables to analyze. This is similar to you post on the long driveway. More information is needed to properly analyze the question.

  6. #6
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    Default no more information on this

    There is no more information on this,
    I just wanted to see what "the personal preferences out there for different types of handline stretches" were.

    I know there are benefits to each stretch and situational considerations but I've noticed a trend in companies doing the Fying stretch with the Backstretch becoming a lost art...

    Nothing more.

  7. #7
    Forum Member raricciuti's Avatar
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    Mt. Lebanon, PA 15228
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    Default

    We use both forward and reverse lays as part of a two-piece engine response. The 1st engine takes the front of the building (leaving room for the truck if it's due), then uses whatever combination of preconnects and dead load 2 1/2" is needed to reach the fire. For buildings equipped with standpipes, we use both 1-3/4" and 2-1/2" "hire-rise" packs off the 1st engine, with the second engine responsiblle for supporting the standpipe. The 2nd due engine either straight or reverse lays (whichever is shorter) according to a preplan for every building in town. Many years ago we built a "file program" of all 10,000+ buildings in town (mostly residental). For every address we have a property decription, number of structures away from the nearest intersection (helps at night / heavy rain-snow-fog, just count the number of buildings from the corner), and the 2 closest hydrants. For apartments and commercial structures, we also have locations of the Knox Box, entrances and stairwells, utilities, roof & basement access, and alarm system info. Back to the original question, we don't have a preference in terms of straight or reverse lay, we use whichever is the shorter. In nearly all cases, the "attack engine" is near the front door, with the "water supply engine" handling hydrant duties.
    R.A. Ricciuti
    Mt. Lebanon Fire Department

  8. #8
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Default

    FLYING STRETCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Weruj1; 04-11-2004 at 09:08 PM.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  9. #9
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    Lightbulb Backstretch!

    firstdueart,

    While I currently work for a dept that predominately uses the back stretch, I did formerly work for a few that had engines set up for either.

    I remember one fire that it came in rather handy. A large Two story Bar/Dance Hall/Travel agency was on fire. The 2nd Due Engine performed a backstrech of sorts by dropping a manifold (water thief to some of you) along with hose in the rear alley and proceeded to the hydrant. This maximized the amount of water as we didn't have to worry about what we were loosing from friction loss. And it kept the Engine out of the way. Also it kept the use of hose to a minimum.

    I also remember a large fire in a isolated RV dealers repair garage. The first Engine laid a supply line from the hydrant towards the fire. This was just done because out of habit this is what they always did. This severly limited the water available to the ladder pipes and large streams. It was due to this limited capacity that they took off all the fog tips and to thier credit switched to smoothbore nozzles. This kept the pump pressure down and increased the overall amount of volume available.

    I agree that many are letting this technique for stretching fall by the wayside. Much of this I think comes from the lack of disipline and focus on the all-in-one quint. These quints often limit the hosebed options. Also many aren't taught or expected to know how to properly estimate a stretch.

    While many including myself lament the loss of proficency in ladder company skills, I feel that the everybody can do everything movement has also weakened the skills of the Engine Company.

    Also look at many of the pictures of Engines rolling off the assembly line today...the hosebeds are shallow and extreemly high. I've seen some you had to use steps just to reach! Not only is this not safe but it isn't practical and shows there is a signifigant vaccum of knowledge and leadership in many fire depts today. Perhaps it comes from having Fire Chiefs who are more like political appointies who can manipulate numbers and budgets but couldn't tell you the proper place for the first line to go at a fire.

    I now prefer the Backstretch having for the first 7 years of my career performed predominately flying stretches or In-line Pumping. It leaves the front clear for the Truck and maximizes the amount of water available from any hydrant.

    FTM-PTB

  10. #10
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
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    This is our method..1st engine goes down the fire block & stops about two buildings past the fire building(leaving room for the 1st due truck), crew lines in and the tank is dropped.This can at least hold or protect the stairs or keep the fire in the fire apartment.For 1 or 2 rooms this can do the knock it down pretty good.Preconnects are not used as a first line as many buildings are rehabed and a 3 length streach suddenly becomes 5...2nd engine backs down street & drops 5" line,after truck gets in block or if at far end of block just backs down. 1st eng is used as a big manifold and 2nd, 3rd and at times 4th line taken off. 3rd due becomes supply if 2nd is jammed up and 4th due engine is used as needed.
    If it's a very narrow street and backing isn't practicle, 1st and 2nd due engines go down the block and stop w/ the 2nd past the fire building,the 1st drops his 5" at the 2nd and goes for a hydrant, using the 2nd as the manifold.

  11. #11
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    BC
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    Default

    Our hall uses flying stretch.
    Smoke on arrival dictates catching the hydrant on the way in then our preconect. Water first then tasks.

  12. #12
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    Default

    We primarily use the flying stretch, with first engine laying in if possible. I agree the supply hose beds are getting high, but our new Smeal Quint has the Ergonomic Hose Load that lays right out the middle of the back. Easy reload too.

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