Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience

View Poll Results: What type of attack line does your dept. use?

Voters
18. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 3/4", Fog nozzle

    11 61.11%
  • 1 3/4", Smoothbore nozzle

    1 5.56%
  • 1 1/2", Fog nozzle

    3 16.67%
  • 1 1/2", Smoothbore nozzle

    0 0%
  • Other (explain)

    3 16.67%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,719

    Default Nozzles, Hoses and Pressures

    First off, this is not meant to be a debate about which types of nozzles or hoses are better. I'm just curious about what other Ohio departments use currently and why you use it.

    On your initial attack line for a SFD, do you use 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" hose?

    Which type of nozzle: combo/fog or smoothbore?

    What is your usual pump discharge pressure for this type of line?



    We use 1 3/4", fog nozzles and a PDP of 120 PSI. Nobody really knows why other than it's what we've always used/everybody else uses it.

    I would like to see us try a smoothbore on one of our preconnects because I think the lower PDP required will make a more manuverable attack line while still flowing good GPM.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT


  2. #2
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    We run all 1 3/4 with combination nozzles on them. We had the new one (s) firm Akron I think the combo SB/Fog........Saberjet ? what a pain in the rear. All 2.5 attack lines are smooth bore.

    Pressures ? we have no actual psi, usually around 110-120, or when someone says gives more or give us less.
    Last edited by Weruj1; 04-10-2004 at 08:59 PM.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  3. #3
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    We use 1 3/4" with combo nozzle. Usually depends on who's operating the truck, but usually we set it around 100-110psi and then adjust per the attack team.

    All 2 1/2" lines also have combo nozzles. I would like to try to get a couple smoothbores (1 for 1 3/4 and 1 for 2 1/2) to try out and see how they work.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber mohican's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    850

    Default If only FEMA comes through

    Right now we use 1-3/4 lines (pre connect cross lays) with combo nozzles

    If we hit our FEMA grant and/or some private sources come through, we may be able to add CAFS to our front line engine. Then we would use smooth bore nozzles with CAFS

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber ff7134's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    1 3/4" with Akron SabreJets at 100 PSI.


    Come on Josh....its just a pain in the butt for us "Old Timers"
    who are use to the Bail opening and closing the knob. I have gotten use to them now after alot of training.

    Plus your a A.C. you shouldn't need to worry about how to shut off the nozzle anyways
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

    IAFF Local 3900

    IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

    ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

    F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

  6. #6
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    We tried the Akron's, too and did not like them. Would be way too complicated for some of the folks to figure out......... Not saying it's the right reason for not doing it, but that's why we didn't get them.

  7. #7
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    well that doesnt mean that I dont like to put out fire.......used one on a training burn .........my opinion wasnt the only reason we pitched em ........LOL ............others did not like them either, however I am glad they work for some departments !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,719

    Default

    Originally posted by firenresq77
    Would be way too complicated for some of the folks to figure out
    We would have the same problem I'm afraid.

    Hey Jeff, how's the nozzle reaction at 100 PSI while using the SB? I think with a regular SB it would be pretty strong.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,719

    Default

    Originally posted by ff7134
    Plus your a A.C. you shouldn't need to worry about how to shut off the nozzle anyways
    He would if he got sprayed by his crew because they couldn't shut the line down
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber ff7134's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    Moe,
    Yeah the SB has some kick....as long as the guy on the knob is ready and they have a good backup its not bad. Some of the guys call for the pressure to be dropped but most don't bother because if you switch back to fog then you have to call for the pressure to be adjusted again.

    We initially didn't like them but the Chief made us keep them on the trucks and after alot of training on with them we got so we really like them. It takes all of the guess work out of which line to pull. We should be getting our 2.5" Sabre's soon.

    I can see it now Josh soaked and 2 newbies on a "wild line".
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

    IAFF Local 3900

    IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

    ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

    F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

  11. #11
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    I can only imagine how much fun that could be !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber jaybird210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    911 N. Sycamore St. Yep, that's really our address.
    Posts
    2,604

    Default

    Being an arrogant know-it-all, I'm going to butt in here (mostly just 'cause Josh likes to come butting into the Illinois forums.... )

    If youse guys are running combos on 1 3/4" or 1 1/2", are these low-pressure fogs? Cause if they are conventional, you are way under-pumping them at PDP of 110-120psi. Is that a big deal? Only if....

    I'll explain: I have in my hand a fog rated at 125 gpm. That rating is with 100 psi at the nozzle. If I've got 200 feet of 1 3/4", I have to compensate at the pump for friction loss through the hose. (Illinois State Fire Marshal says 33psi per 100'. We KNOW this to be wrong by way of flow testing. But that's another story). If I pump at 110psi PDP, there may only by 70psi or less at the nozzle. Is that a big deal? It depends on a couple of things: IF you are not expecting 125gpm, no problem. If you ARE, you could have trouble.

    Here's our deal:
    We run one preconnect 150' 1 3/4" with adjustable gallonage fog. We normally have this set at 125gpm. By way of flow testing, we found we need 135psi PDP to get 100psi at the nozzle. This is easily managed with two firefighters. The other preconnect is 200' 1 3/4" with a 7/8" smoothbore. Again, by flowtesting, we found that if we pump that line at 100psi PDP, we flow about 180gpm. That's a helluva lot of firefighting punch. Best thing: one guy can manage it without trouble (remember, SB are designed to operate at 50psi nozzle pressure).

    Some interesting things came out of flow testing:

    1. We also were under pumping our preconnects. We were averaging about 90gpm on the fog. Again, it's okay, if that's what you are expecting, and you pre-fire plans are based on this.

    2. By swithing our 200' to a SB, we designated that our first-off line for a residential, confined fire (i.e. one or two rooms and contents). Plus, it's highly manueverable. AND, it packed damn near as musch punch as our 2 1/2" with a 1" tip. DOWNSIDE: that lower pressure can lead to kinked hose. Again, not a problem if you are expecting it.

    3. Our 2 1/2" preconnect is 200' also. We ended up taking off one of the stacked tips (it's now a 1 1/8"). This should flow over 200gpm. Again, 50psi on the tip. We found that we only needed 80psi PDP for this line at this flow.

    Flow testing smooth bores is a piece of cake. All you need is a pitot gauge and a chart. Flowing fogs a little more complicated; you need a flow meter. Most salesmen can get one; call your local Akron or Elkhart rep and tell him you want to evaluate nozzles. You can flow test yours and see what's new in low pressure fogs.

    I'll get the heck out of here now. Sorry, Josh!
    Last edited by jaybird210; 04-13-2004 at 11:41 AM.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber ff7134's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    Not a problem Jay,

    And yes they are Low Pressure Nozzles. Running it at 100psi pump pressure get the needed PSI at the nozzle.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

    IAFF Local 3900

    IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

    ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

    F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

  14. #14
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    why is everyone all up in my business ? I welcome all comers .........plus 210 I genuinely like you ! stop back anytime...
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,719

    Default

    Great post Jay, thanks!

    We also have the low pressure nozzles but what we are actually flowing is probably anyone's guess.

    That was one of my reasons for this thread, to see what PDP other's are using. I should have included a question on dual or fixed gallonage combo nozzles and also what their department's target gpm is.

    I have read in many articles that for interior attack, 180 gpm is the minimum needed for safe operations. I'm sure you can get by with less for a basic room & contents job, but it would bite you in the ***** on something bigger, commercial structures, etc. Seems like it would be better to set everything up for maximum gpm. That way your not behind the 8 ball when it hits the fan.

    A flow test sounds like a good daytime drill for my dept. That way we know for sure what we are flowing. Wonder if the neighboring city dept. has a flow meter we could borrow? (hint, hint 730 )

    Thanks for the responses brothers.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  16. #16
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    Moe,
    We got a pitot............lemme know if you need it .
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber ff7134's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,093

    Default

    Just have Josh hold the Pitot when your testing
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

    IAFF Local 3900

    IACOJ-The Crusty Glow Worm

    ENGINE 302 - The Fire Rats

    F.A.N.T.A.M FOOLS FTM-PTB

  18. #18
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    7,857

    Default

    Man this is a tough crowd !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber jaybird210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    911 N. Sycamore St. Yep, that's really our address.
    Posts
    2,604

    Default

    Just make sure Joshie holds his own pitot!

    (Keep your hands off my pitot, man!)

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Xenia, Ohio
    Posts
    10

    Default

    Lets do some math here ....

    Needed Fireflow = L X W / 3 X %involvement

    Standard SFD - 2500 SF

    Working Fire - 25% Involved on arrival, 1st floor.

    This is a basic formula, and we already need 200 GPM for initial Fire Attack. This does not include extension into attic or 2nd floor if in a multi story occupancy. As a company officer I want to have the needed fireflow at my fingertips, not relying on radio traffic to ask for more water. Most of you replied that you try to achieve 100 gpm or 125 gpm. I would recommend evaluating your fire flow needs. Conducting flow tests seem to be very educational. We have 200' 1 3/4" pre-connects with Akron Selecto-matic Nozzles (SM20) and 200' 2" Lines with SM30. They will flow 200 gpm and 300 gpm respectively.

    We used to strive for "100 GPM" based on "We've always done it this way" attitude. I would challenge you to question "WHY" and promote change. Fire Rescue magazine has been a great source of articles on Flow Testing, and Big Water from Little Lines. You should always maximize your nozzles. You can close the bail if needed to control the reaction force.

    We have also added 200' 2 1/2" Pre-Connect with Straight Tip, and 200' 2 1/2" with a 500 GPM Blitzfire for Quick Deployment of Big Water. If you are like us, Manning is a precious commodity these days. We run 3 on the engine, and only have 10 on duty per shift.
    We don't have the luxury of 2 or 3 handlines from the start ...

    Any other thoughts ??

    Jason Kinley, Lieutenant
    Xenia Fire Division

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts