Thread: Good Cop / Bad Cop in Iraq???
04-11-2004, 10:43 AM #1
Good Cop / Bad Cop in Iraq???
Is it just me, or does it suddenly seem like we've started a game of Good Cop / Bad Cop in Iraq...
Not that I agree with us taking the "bad cop" role but with the current semi-cease fires and the Iraqi Governing Council in "negotiations" it sure looks like a good cop/bad cop play.
Insurgents don't want any control. Marines smack them. IGC steps in -- wanna bet the compromise is the Marines will pull back if the insurgents will respect the Iragi Police / Army forces that would be sent in place of the Marines???
I dunno, could be I'm crediting people with more planning than is actually taking place, but sure looks like a duck right now.
BTW, current stuff doesn't surprise me, give it a month and see how it plays out.
And for God's sake, don't compare it to Vietnam, or if you do, put it in perspective. The Tet Offensive which was a similiar "surprise" claimed 2,000 U.S. and 4,000 South Vietnamese casualties -- I don't have the exact numbers for the last week, but they still wouldn't total a statistical deviation compared to Vietnam-level conflict.
NPR has had some interesting comments over the year from reporters and others over there that are fairly unbiased and non-sensationalistic -- one last weekend whose been back in the US for two weeks after six months in Iraq put it this way, "Well, the glass is 5/8ths full, but has some leaks. Things are not going great, but it's not as bad as the mainstream press in the US is making it out to be."
Just makes you wonder if part of the current tactics is aimed at making the IGC look like it has actual power/influence with the Americans to get them "respect" before 30 June.IACOJ Canine Officer
04-11-2004, 11:16 AM #2
Re: Good Cop / Bad Cop in Iraq???Originally posted by Dalmatian90
Just makes you wonder if part of the current tactics is aimed at making the IGC look like it has actual power/influence with the Americans to get them "respect" before 30 June.
It does look a little "tidy", doesn't it?
I vote we bail and come back in another ten and kick their ***** again if they don't act right.ullrichk
a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for
04-11-2004, 07:41 PM #3
Part of my take on the flare up in the past week or so is this:
I do not mean to be offensive at all by this, but here goes...
The Army has left the areas as part of their rotation, and much of the Army plan was to let many of the cities kind of fall into places on their own, and unfortunately this has let the dirtbags in the cities get a stockpile of weapons and get organized.
As they rotated out, the Marines moved in. A few attacks and the Marines went on the offensive and prosecuted targets not taking anything from the aggressors. This is the manner of Marines. I am not criticising the Army or soldiers, but this is my take on part of what happened, from my experience as a Marine and from what I have read.
Things are certainly interesting though and Like it has been said, I think a lot will settle down in the next weeks as we show that we do not want to give in to their demands and we prosecute you for the attacks and damage that you inflict."Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers
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04-11-2004, 10:39 PM #4
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wonder if we will be doing a little bombing in iran next, sure hope not but they say they are training the hostels and suppling arms, showed some training camps just over the border on fox ..
04-23-2004, 11:41 PM #5
We were there for a year and during that time we were able to talk with local Iraqi's in southern Iraq and learn some things.
DaSharkie is right in the aspect of how we treat them relates to how they react to us. Around Nasiriya the Iraqi's hated the Italians because the Italians treated them so badly. The US treats them as humans and they like us. Problems start to arise when different units arrive and shake down Iraqi's for kicks or because they are ****ed. There were so 82nd units in our AO that had just left Afganistan and redeployed to Iraq. Needless to say they weren't making a whole lot of friends. Image what it's like now that units are being kept up to 16 months.
Differences in cultures don't help. Talking with a local I asked various questions about how Iraqi's view the US, ect. One thing that was pointed out to me was that the US said it was coming in to get rid of Saddam and his sons. They're gone so why are we here? Good point. I replied with, "OK, we'll be gone in a month. Is that what you want?". He didn't want that because we were helping them.
The Iraqi's were under British rule for years and they don't want to go back to that. They want the Coalition to get things stable but get out ASAP. Life is getting better for them but some clerics are stirring up trouble and they listen to the clerics. Another problem is that those that had power before realize that in a democratic society they will lose their previous power and as a result they do everything they can to hamper Coalition efforts at stablization.
One other problem is that the honeymoon is over. We rolled in, got rid of Saddam and the boys and the like. Before they were to disorganized to effectively fight back. They have had the chance to get organized, get support and fight back. This isn't going to get better soon. We are there and we cannot pull out. If we do the US will never be trusted again. We have to make this work.
The Coalition is making progress but the task is huge. We fix a pipeline and they damage it. We hire and train Iraqi police only to find out that some are corrupt.
It's not as simple as Good Cop/Bad Cop. Hard to realize until you have been there.
04-24-2004, 12:10 AM #6
Thanks for a very balanced perspective.
How does the tribal as opposed to religious sect loyalty come into the equation.
We know the B'ath party was predominatantly controlled by Husseins relatives or people from his home region. We know that the the Taliban from Afghanistan were orignially raised out of Pakistan.
Ultimately El Queda were worked up from Afghanis loyal to a US trained (Saudi born) madman, and now some may be in Iran.
We know people from other countries are moving into the area to cause problems, eg Muslims from the old Yugoslav territories, or Russian terrotories.
How are these people viewed by the average Iraqi?
Do they want them around?Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.
04-24-2004, 05:33 PM #7
FlyingKiwi, the tribal sects are relatively small and you will see one tribe fight the other just like gang wars. They will put aside their differences for religious purposes, such as fighting a enemy of the religion.
It all depends on how the average Iraqi views the Coalition Forces. If the CF is making life better for them then they don't like people who oppose us. If they cannot see a change for the better they will support, or at least endorse, attacks against the CF. In some cases, the almighty dinar/dollar wins out. Some Iraqi Police have actually rented out their vehicles, at a huge price, to smugglers in order for weapons to come into the country. All to make some money.
The one view that the average Iraqi shares is that they want everyone out so they can run Iraq themselves. Even if you removed the insurgents as well as Coalition Forces, the resulting civil war would wreak havoc upon the country. There are no easy answers here. The average Iraqi is a decent person who just wants to improve his lot in life. It's a same that they can't do that without the violence.
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