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Thread: Critique

  1. #21
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Assuming heavy enough smoke/fire you can't see the far wall.

    That's why we go up and, um, look. Even if the house is crystal clear, you still need to confirm the kitchen door is closed -- probably not at the time of year this video was shot, but put that fire on a nice spring day with the windows open and a gentle breeze blowing from the back of the house -- door could be open, feeding air to the fire, and you wouldn't know it unless you looked.

    Winter time, house was probably closed up pretty tight. No smoke poured out of the front door when it was opened. Wasn't there to look inside, but the outside sure screams fire confined to the garage.
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  2. #22
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    Originally posted by Dalmatian90
    Assuming heavy enough smoke/fire you can't see the far wall.

    That's why we go up and, um, look. Even if the house is crystal clear, you still need to confirm the kitchen door is closed -- probably not at the time of year this video was shot, but put that fire on a nice spring day with the windows open and a gentle breeze blowing from the back of the house -- door could be open, feeding air to the fire, and you wouldn't know it unless you looked.

    Winter time, house was probably closed up pretty tight. No smoke poured out of the front door when it was opened. Wasn't there to look inside, but the outside sure screams fire confined to the garage.
    If you're taking the time to go to the door anyway, why not bring a line with you? There also is still the point of an opening to the attic and/or breached walls. All I'm saying is I'd like to keep it confined to the garage.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    If you're taking the time to go to the door anyway, why not bring a line with you?

    So, you pull a line around the house with you while you're doing a 360?

    There also is still the point of an opening to the attic and/or breached walls

    So...out of concern that there *might* be a breached wall or opening to the attic (even though there is no smoke to indicate it), we'll open up a 3' wide by 7' high hole in the wall...

    A fire like this is very size-up sensitive. The tactics these guys used are ones drilled into people's heads for years under the mantra "Attack from the unburned side!" But that has to be coupled with good size-up where you figure out where the fire is, what it's doing, and how you're gonna work with the building and your tools to control it.

    There are times your hand will be forced to attack through a interior kitchen-to-garage door. But that doesn't mean it has to be our default mode.
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    Originally posted by Dalmatian90
    If you're taking the time to go to the door anyway, why not bring a line with you?

    So, you pull a line around the house with you while you're doing a 360?

    There also is still the point of an opening to the attic and/or breached walls

    So...out of concern that there *might* be a breached wall or opening to the attic (even though there is no smoke to indicate it), we'll open up a 3' wide by 7' high hole in the wall...

    A fire like this is very size-up sensitive. The tactics these guys used are ones drilled into people's heads for years under the mantra "Attack from the unburned side!" But that has to be coupled with good size-up where you figure out where the fire is, what it's doing, and how you're gonna work with the building and your tools to control it.

    There are times your hand will be forced to attack through a interior kitchen-to-garage door. But that doesn't mean it has to be our default mode.

    A 360 more than likely isn't going to show you if the garage to interior door is open or closed. You said to go up and, "um, look". To do that you'll probably have to go inside. If you're going inside anyway, youmay as well take the line with you. Since the house is being pressurized py ppv, you might as well attack from inside. ENSURING no further fire spread.

    I'm not sure where your talk about the 3x7 hole came from!?!? I'm saying out of concern that a wall or attic might be open, you should attack from inside if it's reasonable. My size up of this home leads me to these tactics. Your size-up leads you to different tactics. I imagine we could pull ten different guys and each would have at least a slightly different opinion of how to attack this fire.

    In no way do I condone "auto-pilot"; that is, going strictly by the book tactics on every fire. If that worked, it would make for an awfully boring job!!!!

    In the end, we each have our ideas, and we're not gonna' change eachother's mind.
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  5. #25
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Assuming heavy enough smoke/fire you can't see the far wall.
    Guess what; the door's open.

  6. #26
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Though I don't remember weighing in the last time this topic was beaten to death, I believe I would have used a large handline with straight/solid stream, into the overhead of the garage, from the outside, to knock it down, then move inside the front door. This wouldn't take too long with a 2 1/2 flowing at least 250 gpm. I can see putting a handline between the interior door and the rest of the house first, if conditions allow it, but this thing was moving fast, and we all know how long lightweight construction stands up to this type of fire. Of course, I don't know if anyone was inside, or what kind of initial water supply was provided.

  7. #27
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    I'm not sure where your talk about the 3x7 hole came from!?!?
    I believe he's talking about opening the door.

  8. #28
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    Originally posted by ThNozzleman

    I believe he's talking about opening the door.
    Heh heh.....ummm...damn. 3x7. Don't ya' hate it when you say something incredibly stupid when you're trying to prove a point? My bad.
    Last edited by mcleoud151; 04-17-2004 at 04:55 PM.
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  9. #29
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    if I recall correctly the "general" concensus was to blitz it to darken it down and then mop up with the 1 3/4, or go dulge gun then handline.........either way big water fast and "race to attic" to check for extension.
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  10. #30
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  11. #31
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    A decent job Don by those guys... I Def agree fire had extended on arrival runnin the walls. I wud of ran a line through the 1st floor to the garage and a line upstairs. also sending a truck to the roof opening up

  12. #32
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    A 360 includes looking in windows, first floor and especially basement. If you're not looking in windows and poking your head in any unlocked doors, you could completely miss the location of the fire, especially a basement one that's venting in another location.

    As to the thoughts in the video that the fire was already in the walls, look at the video again, especially where it broke through the side of the house (gabel end).

    Is this the type of building you'd expect balloon frame construction? Nope, way to new. Yeah, maybe the homeowner or sloppy contractors may have made some voids, but it ain't balloon frame.

    Moreover, look at the discoloration of the siding. It's at the level of and timing proximate to the fire auto-exposing the siding on the 2nd floor, and from their extending into the eaves and across and inside the attic (interior attic walls most likely where exposed, i.e. no sheetrock or insulation). Had the fire been in the walls from the original fire in the garage, you would've seen the siding discoloring/melting all the way up the wall. Nope, this fire got into the attic via the eaves, not the wall.
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  13. #33
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    I also believe the fire should have been attacked from the exterior (hopefully a side door, unless there are auto exposure problems) after an 1 3/4 line has been stretched interior and confirmed no extension. This line can then be brought to the second floor or have another line come in. If you have 3 guys available for firefighting, then 2 FFs inside, and one on a 2 1/2 on the exterior. If it happens at night time or the occupancy is unknown, a line must go inside immediately. If you are content on attacking from the interior, having a line on the exterior to protect the soffit would be needed. Only my opinion.
    Last edited by erics99; 04-18-2004 at 12:46 AM.

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