1. #1
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    Default Baltimore's Firefighter recruit class is all white

    The Baltimore Fire Department has hired an all-white class of recruits for the first time since the department was integrated 50 years ago.
    A fire officials called the 30-member class an anomaly and said the department had followed regular hiring procedures, the Baltimore Sun reported Tuesday.

    The department is allowing six black recruits to join the academy on a conditional basis, the newspaper reported. There is also a move to change the department's entrance exam.
    The newspaper cited fire department spokesman Kevin Cartwright as saying the department interviewed several black recruits who had passed the entrance test but those failed criminal background checks or drug screening.

    The department in the past has bypassed some white recruits who scored higher than black candidates on entrance exams, with officials selecting the African-American candidates to help diversify the department.

    Baltimore's population is about 65 percent black but about 25 percent of the city's 1,700 firefighters and paramedics are minorities, the Sun reported. The current recruit class has been in training since February and should graduate this summer.

    Alfred Boyd, a retired black firefighter, told the Sun, "The chief has set this department back 50 years with this group."
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    Default Re: Baltimore's Firefighter recruit class is all white

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    The newspaper cited fire department spokesman Kevin Cartwright as saying the department interviewed several black recruits who had passed the entrance test but those failed criminal background checks or drug screening.
    ...
    The department in the past has bypassed some white recruits who scored higher than black candidates on entrance exams, with officials selecting the African-American candidates to help diversify the department.
    ...

    Alfred Boyd, a retired black firefighter, told the Sun, "The chief has set this department back 50 years with this group."
    I have nothing against black firefighters (or any race for that matter) but this is absurd. Baltimore FD bypassed white recruits who scored scored better on tests in favor of African Americans who scored lower? How is this fair to the white recruits?

    The dept interveiwed black recruits, who did pass the entrance but failed the criminal background check or drug screening. maybe it's a good thing they weren't hired based on the results of the drug test or screening alone?

    and what's this guy's problem? The chief set the dept back 50 years? no, he just followed the rules, and keeping everything equal, and held everyone to the same standards. gee, how unfair.

    I'm all for diversity in the work place, and have nothing against anyone. but this is absurd. forget race, forget affirmative action.

    whether it be man, woman, white, black, or any other characteristic you can name, I say let the best person get the job.
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    Default Re: Baltimore's Firefighter recruit class is all white

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    The department in the past has bypassed some white recruits who scored higher than black candidates on entrance exams, with officials selecting the African-American candidates to help diversify the department.
    Alfred Boyd, a retired black firefighter, told the Sun, "The chief has set this department back 50 years with this group."
    Mr. Boyd didn't have a problem with the hiring practice when white people were being discriminated against, but he does have problem with the department not hiring felons and drug addicts. Same old hypocritical BS.

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    MAY THE LAW SUITS BEGIN

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    Back 50 years my ***. That's keeping them right where they ought to be, RIGHT. Philadelphia skips over whites left and right so they can hire more minorities who didn't score as high on the test. Who's fault is it they didn't score high enough on a test. I didn't score high enough on the test, so can I bypass all the guys ahead of me?? (no...I'm white).

    It's absolutely rediculous the hiring procedures and the attempted "diversification" of many metropolitan fire departments.

    This type of stuff increases racism and increases tensions between white and other minority firefighters. Many of the whites may develope animosity towards the minorities because they may not have been the best candidate for the job because the best candidate was passed over for being white.

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    So be it, if that's the order of ranking, than that's the way the recruit academy gets classed up.
    The newspaper cited fire department spokesman Kevin Cartwright as saying the department interviewed several black recruits who had passed the entrance test but those failed criminal background checks or drug screening.
    I spose that's my fault because I'm a whitey that they failed this portion. Hmmmm, is personal responsibility only the requirement of certain segments of society, others, especially if they are a minority, are excluded?
    Alfred Boyd, a retired black firefighter, told the Sun, "The chief has set this department back 50 years with this group."
    Mr. Boyd sir, you are, in my personal opinion, a racist bigot. I have a gut feeling that if it was fifty blacks, he would still be whining because there might be a white instructor...
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    Unbelieveable......... That's really all I can say right now...

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    Default Re: Baltimore's Firefighter recruit class is all white

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    The department in the past has bypassed some white recruits who scored higher than black candidates on entrance exams, with officials selecting the African-American candidates to help diversify the department.
    Ya know, I'm sorry, BUT if you can't make the grade for the testing then you simply cannot do the job. It's no one's fault but your own if you fail a test that you could have studied for, or maybe you just don't have the aptitude for it........ ummmmm wasn't there a post in Off Duty concerning the retrosexual man ........ DEAL WITH IT, MOVE ON, GET OVER IT, BUILD A BRIDGE, PLACE BLAME WHERE IT LIES NOT WHERE IT MAKES LIFE EASIER FOR YOU ....... OH and did I mention GET OVER IT. I don't care what race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation you are, if you can do the job fine, if not get the hell out and find a line of work you can excel in. Peoples lives depend on US being able to do our jobs. I don't understand why "accepting" second rate applicants is ok within the fire service, when it's not acceptable elsewhere. I submit my resume for a job, if I have the qualifications fine, if not then it generally sucks to be me. Instead of crying racism and discrimination why not search within one's self to determine the cause of the failure. Oh and above all else GET OVER IT.

    Edited to add a further thought: When are the powers that be going to realize that we are going to "PC" ourselves to death ....... in the most literal sense of the word. Hiring underqualified individuals not only endangers the public but most importantly it endangers the Brothers and Sisters who must work along side them. PC my ***, grow thicker skin and GET OVER IT.
    Last edited by PFire23; 04-20-2004 at 08:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Re: Baltimore's Firefighter recruit class is all white

    Originally posted by PFire23


    Ya know, I'm sorry, BUT if you can't make the grade for the testing then you simply cannot do the job. It's no one's fault but your own if you fail a test that you could have studied for, or maybe you just don't have the aptitude for it........ ummmmm wasn't there a post in Off Duty concerning the retrosexual man ........ DEAL WITH IT, MOVE ON, GET OVER IT, BUILD A BRIDGE, PLACE BLAME WHERE IT LIES NOT WHERE IT MAKES LIFE EASIER FOR YOU ....... OH and did I mention GET OVER IT. I don't care what race, color, religion, gender, sexual orientation you are, if you can do the job fine, if not get the hell out and find a line of work you can excel in. Peoples lives depend on US being able to do our jobs. I don't understand why "accepting" second rate applicants is ok within the fire service, when it's not acceptable elsewhere. I submit my resume for a job, if I have the qualifications fine, if not then it generally sucks to be me. Instead of crying racism and discrimination why not search within one's self to determine the cause of the failure. Oh and above all else GET OVER IT.
    Because then some people would actually have to work harder, instead of having something handed to him/her

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    Default Re: Baltimore's Firefighter recruit class is all white

    Originally posted by DrParasite
    Alfred Boyd, a retired black firefighter, told the Sun, "The chief has set this department back 50 years with this group."
    Yeah. Playing by the rules and hiring the first 30 firefighters that (a) applied, (b) tested, (c) did well on the test, (d) passed the drug & background tests and (e) aced the orals is a terrible thing. What the heck were they thinking in Maryland? They should have picked people based on skin color instead. That would have been so much better.

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    Would they have let WHITE FF join the class?

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    Now if it was an all black class nobody would be saying a word. So what if it was an all white class. They were the top scorers who could pass the background and drug tests. Unbelievable. Now who is going to win the race down there to represent the people who are inevitably going to sue Geoff Figer or Johnny Cochran?
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    The answer here is the same one that has been repeated over and over...

    the best qualified candidates should be hired... period...end of story!
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    I'm with you on this one, Captain Gonzo, the best qualified people for the job should get the job and race should not come into it.

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    It does not matter what special provisions are made, you will never appease the minorities in this country. I am still waiting for my taxes to increase so I can pay my part of the "reparations" for slavery. Funny thing is, most of these people could not trace an ancestor back to the days of slavery, simply because they had none. But I guess we are just supposed to pay them because they are black?

    I think before the Government gives anyone a dime, the need to have proof beyond a resonable doubt that the person was a direct descendant of slaves.

    Back to the subject at hand.....

    This is another attempt by the PC Police to "diversify" everyone. I guess they were just supposed to give jobs to people with criminal convictions or positive drug tests? Sometime sI wish I had it as good as some of the minorities in this country. Affirmative Action needs to go.

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    Thumbs down

    FYI,

    Chief Goodwin has been throughly reamed by Mayor "I want to be Govenor" O'Malley, forced to eat PC pie, told to "fix it", gin up a new test, and probably is in danger of being fired.

    Moral of story - Politics comes first.

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    Originally posted by oldman21220
    FYI,

    Chief Goodwin has been throughly reamed by Mayor "I want to be Govenor" O'Malley, forced to eat PC pie, told to "fix it", gin up a new test, and probably is in danger of being fired.

    Moral of story - Politics comes first.
    So what can Chief Goodwin do about drug screening and criminal background checks? Absolutley nothing. You do dope and rob and steal, you screwed yourself, that's the deal!

    Mayor O'Malley, IMHO, can choke on his politically correct pie.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Stay tuned Cap. This will probably get very nasty before it's over. The suggestion has been made that they test monthly to keep minorities on the list. Long term they have already proven that they must "reach down" to have what the politicos want. Balitmore - We buy votes with your safety.

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    I wonder what a monthly test will cost the taxpayers in an attempt to appease the minority population, who as a whole do not apply for ther job in the first place?

    The last two civil service firefighter entrance exams in Massachusetts had to have their application dates extended due to a lack of minority candidates applications... this after being advertised in all of the major newspapers and posted in the city and town halls of the Commonwealth...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    I just heard on the news this morning that they are changing the testing procedures to mirror the police departments. I have no idea what those changes consist of, or how the police department testing policies are different.

    Do they allow criminals and drug users on the police department??

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    I like many of you think it is crazy to bend over backward to be what someone terms "Polictially Correct". As stated before, peoples lives depend on everyone performing their job to the best of their abilities.

    What would happen if one of the candidates that failed because of drugs showed up at the station high. Then responded to a call. That person is not perform up to the standard that is needed, and people will get hurt or killed. Then whose fault is it. If you go by what the the former black firefighter says, it would probably be the fault of the white firefighters for not helping enough.

    How many white candidates did not make it because they failed one aspect of the test? Who is raising cane about them not becoming firefighters?

    I agree that firefighters, police officers, or any job should hire based on three overall criteria: 1. Did they apply (how can you hire someone who did not apply for the job), 2. Do they qualify (have they passed all the exams required) and finally 3. Did they have the highest score.

    Follow these simple steps and you have the best people for the job, regardless of race, color or creed.


    PFire23 had posted "accepting second rate applicants is okay within the Fire Service, but its not acceptable elsewhere". Please do not take this the wrong way, but I do not think you know about the private sector.

    I do not talk about myself very often, but I am a Microsoft Certified System Engineer. I applied for a job with a consulting company that is a Microsoft Partner. Two weeks later, I found out that I did not get the job because they hired someone else. That someone else did not pass a single Microsoft exam, had only work with the systems for less than a year. (The criteria for the job was 5 years.) This person is black. In addition to getting the job that he was not qualified for, it is at a higher salary that what I would have gotten. Why, because they needed to higher a minority.

    So PFire23, it is not just in the Fire Service, Police, or any other public safety job, it is everywhere.

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    Eng. 34

    They did out of at least one batch. It was in the Sun a couple of years ago. Keep in mind that this is a city that thinks that a bumper sticker will solve its problems.

    Capt. Gonzo

    The rest of Maryland already pays Baltimore's bills. I doubt that Mayor "I want to be Govenor" really cares as long as someone else is paying the bill.

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    I want to pass on a little story that is relevant to this post. This type of hiring is not limited to just Baltimore, the city I work for has participated in similar hiring practices. I am not going to name the city here. We are a 1200 member department in a city that is 41% black, and 17% hispanic, approximately 30% of work force is black. We recently had our city lose a law-suit initiated by the IABPFF. With this victory it was deemed that our entrance exam was racially biased, and as such a number of applicants who originally failed the written test and were susequently dismissed from the process have been hired. Not only were they hired, but now they have been given full senority based upon an "approved" date of hire. Some of these dates of hire go back to 1994. Along with these dates of hire a compensatory check is also issued to these "applicants". This move catapaults them in front of several hundred firefighters were they they to be awarded the 1994 date of hire. To my knowledge the date of hire is relative to which exam they were discriminated by. We ran a test in '93, '96, and '99 I beleive. Just as a side note, since 1995 100% of minority applicants applying for our driver's position or lieutenant have been promoted. I am not making any allegations here, just pointing out a few facts. This is nothing new, and nothing differant .... just an example of the usual/typical government knee-jerk reaction to any problem ....

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    I agree 100% with all the feelings that I have read here so far. With that being said I would like to see the some feedback from minorities on this. I would like to know your feelings on this. I have a feeling that any true hearted firefighter no matter what race they are would think that this is bullsh*^t. I myself was passed up for a black and a woman with no experience and lower test scores. I was outraged but nothing I could do. I have no problem with anyone in the fire service if they can do the job and score equally on the tests. Every white male that tests gets a queezy feeling in his stomach everytime he see's blacks and women at the tests. He knows his odds of getting the job went down dramaticly.

    I feel it is time for someone to step in and stop the racism. Minorities are all about stopping the racism but they have no problem when it is just passed on to a different race as long as it is not them. There is no room for this in the fire service.

    Slavery and segregation are over and have been over for a long time. I know things are not perfect and probably never will be but the first step I feel is for people to GET OVER IT. If you were never a slave or segregated then dont ask for anything extra. Be greatfull to you ancestors for the fact that you didnt have to go through what they did.



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    Like someone has already said, What if it had been an all black class. Yup, you wouldn't have seen anything in the news!

    Lowering standards or bypass people who had better qulifications to hire someone is wrong! It makes no sence whatever. Baltimore is not the only city to do this. There too many of them to name in here.

    If Baltimore changes the rules and requirements, there will be no telling who will get hired. Maybe if they hired some of the girls off East Baltimore Street they could get a "good diverse" group!!!

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