Whelen edge

[k1500chevy97]

We are thinking about dumping the lightbar that came on our new engine. It just has a real cheap and funny look to it and also doesnt provide the warning power that we think it should have the only thing we really like about it is it goes all the way across the cab.
We are looking at going with a strobe/led combo and have been looking hard at the Edge 9M.
What does everyone think about the Edge 9M series bars?
Anything positive or negative about these bars would be appreciated.


oh yea, btw. this is what we have on the truck now.

[SCOOBY14B]

Powerarc correct? If so, they are funny looking, but quite effective. Powerarc is now marketing LED fixtures as well.

[nwadler]

What you have is not bad I have seen worse. The new LED lightbars from whelen are brighter than haeck and are not to bad if you can afford it. Plus they use less energy than halogen or even strobe lightbars.

[LeuitEFDems]

I believe the lightbar on my towns newest cruiser is a 9M. If so, it's a very nice bar. Streamlined, not too tall. But very effective. The combo of LED's and strobes is nice. The flash pattern they use is very effective, and both the LED's and strobes are bright.

[SafetyLighting]

Go with a 60" Millenium Lightbar from 911EP, they are killer, and draw very little power.

http://www.911ep.com

[nwadler]

I think that the millenium 911 bars are good and all but do not have the warning power of the whelen edge with the tir8 and the tir12 linear LED's.

[640SATFD]

K1500,

What state is your Department located in???

[k1500chevy97]

Originally posted by 640SATFD
K1500,

What state is your Department located in???

Washington.


Thanks for all the input. I will be sure to suggest looking into the millenium bar. I am kinda leaning towards the Whelen bar myself.

[Sleuth]

Our local SO has just gone to all LED bars - they are BRIGHT!

(And sneaky - when they are off, they are really hard to see. But even in the AZ sun they stand out for a long way!)

[SafetyLighting]

Originally posted by nwadler
I think that the millenium 911 bars are good and all but do not have the warning power of the whelen edge with the tir8 and the tir12 linear LED's.

Well, it is all about opinions I guess :-). I have seen both in use, the whelens are nice, problem with them is that they have limited flash patterns because of the fewer modules. The 60" 911EP Millenium has 48 LED modules, whereas the Whelen Edge LFL LED has a maximum of 16. I prefer the Millenium, but the best thing to do is find retailers and tell them you want to see both in action. You may even find a retailer that has demo models that can be layed on the apparatus for live viewing of how they will look. I am a retailer for 911EP, and I allow my customers to demo products before purchasing. By the way, I am not biased towards 911EP because I retail for them, I have been a light fanatic for a long time, LOLOL.

[Weruj1]

we just purchased a 72" NFPA 12 strobe bar direct from Whelen to replace one on a 1984 Pierce that was the old Code 3 sealed beam rotators............has 2 lo pro speakers also. Need cost let me know. It should be here in the next couple of weeks.

[nmfire]

The Whelen Liberty (slim) and Whelen Freedom (Full size) LED lightbars will both kick the pants of a Millenium bar. The Millenium bar was great when it first came out years ago. But the technology in other manufacturers has changed and surpassed it, while it just sits there. The Millenium has no NFPA certification and has NO buisness on a fire apparatus. Don't waste your money.

If this is a fire apparatus (duh), then the best choice for a full LED bar is the Whelen Freedom bar. They are incredible and they do make NFPA complient versions of it. I've seen them in person and they knock the socks of anything else in existance. They draw next to nothing from your electrical system and the LED's are rated for 100,000 hours which is about 11 years of constant use. You can choose 8 or 10 LED heads (10!!) and everything is pre-built to NFPA specifications. You can also pick a center accessory option. I usually go with the PierceAlert (Sweepy Light).

If you want a combination of strobe and LED, you can get an NFPA Edge bar. These bars are specificlly designed for fire apparatus. Pick the length (55", 60", or 72"), and whether you want the 8 strobe or 10 strobe model (I always go with the 10 ) The colors and control are all pre-built to NFPA specs.

[SafetyLighting]

Well,like I said, to each their own. I would take a look at all available options and then make a decision. 911EP has also just released the Galaxy lightbar. So check that out too if you like. If you like the Whelen bars better than the 911EP bars than that is great, it is all about using what works the best for your dept.
I'm kind of aggravated with the way NMFire repsponded in his last post, so I'm pretty much done trying to explain anything about the bars, but I will leave you with this LED knowledge. Most LED lightbars are the same as far as components go. They all use LED's which draw very little power by design. Because LED's emit a specific color light, there isn't any wasted light energy. An example of this is a strobe dashlight, we have all seen how bright the white strobe is, but when a colored filter is installed, the intensity is reduced dramatically. As far as I know all the lightbar manufacturers offer a 5 year warranty on the LED bars. NMFire is correct on the usage stats. LED's are rated for 100,000 hours which equates to 11.4 years if the bar was run for 24 hours a day straight, or 30+ years if the bar was run for 8 hours a day. Remember that these are just estimations. There isn't an LED manufacturer anywhere that would warranty their product for that long, but it gives you some idea of what LED's are capable of.

Take Care, and please post how you make out with it.

[nmfire]

You don't seem to understand. You can't just throw whatever looks better on a fire truck. That might fly with a personal vehicle or police car, but not on a real fire apparatus. There is this thing called NFPA and when you start putting Non-Certified components on your apparatus, you are doing so at your own PERSONAL liability risk as well as that of the department and anyone else who had anything to do with the decision when there is a "problem" down the road (such as an accident).

If you want to put an inferior (might as well be obsolete) slimline lightbar with no nfpa certifications on top of a huge fire truck, be my guest. You've been warned and informed why you shouldn't. I don't want to be you when the lawyers come knocking nor do I want to lose my house to a lawsuit over a flashing light. Try again.

Oh yea, and please explain how a lightbar with a maximum length of 60" will fit on the roof of a truck requireing a 72" lightbar??? 60"... 72".. Hmm.

Your comments about them all being "the same" as far as components go is way off base. Sorry if it aggrevates you even more, but I can't help it if you post information that is inaccurate. I won't let somoene else make a REALLY BAD DECISION because it might hurt your feelings.

And ya know. Now I realize why you are pushing the 911EP bar. YOUR A 911EP DEALER! Thats even better. Then your company can also get roped into the lawsuit for selling them the non-certified lightbar for the fire truck. One of the qualities of a good honest dealer is to know when your product shouldn't be used and not sell it to the customer anyway, especially in this kind of application.

[SafetyLighting]

So all LED lightbars don't use LED's? Cause that is what I was saying.LED's although different shapes and sizes and colors are still LED's. The only true advancement in LED technology has been LumiLed's 1 watt and 5 watt Luxeons, which are used in 911EP's products. What I was saying about the millenium has nothing to do with me being a dealer. I have only been a dealer for a short time. I have however been in emergency services for 11 years, and I am an Electronics Engineer. As far as I know you are right about the NFPA approval, and I didn't say pick a bar on looks, but continue to give me problem NM, that's fine.

[nmfire]

Since you can't accept fact for what it is, now it's on.

Originally posted by SafetyLighting
So all LED lightbars don't use LED's? Cause that is what I was saying.

No, thats not what I said and that is not what you said either. Nice try.

LED's although different shapes and sizes and colors are still LED's.

If you think thats all there is to it, you shouldn't be selling them. Most people prefer to buy something from dealer who knows what they are talking about and isn't just blowing smoke. That may or may not be your intetion, but I assure you, that is what your doing.

The only true advancement in LED technology has been LumiLed's 1 watt and 5 watt Luxeons, which are used in 911EP's products.

And you think they are the only company that uses them?? And again you act as if it is just a bunch of LED's an there is nothing else to it. Well you're in for a rude awakening because there is a lot more to this than how many of the same LED's you can stick in a bar and how many fancy patterns it has. The fact that the 911EP bar is so much less intense than the others mentioned should prove that since you say they all use the Luxeons, right??

Your entire comparison of the whelen and 911ep LED bars was complete crap. Less flash patterns because there are less modules? What? That makes no sense it all, just as little as the rest of that reply. It just shows how little you know about it, or how much your willing to lie and deceive about it to make a sale. It was so misconstrued, I actually laughed. Once again, either learn what your talking about or stop lying. One of the two is taking place, I can't tell which it is.

What I was saying about the millenium has nothing to do with me being a dealer. I have only been a dealer for a short time.

Sure.

I have however been in emergency services for 11 years, and I am an Electronics Engineer. As far as I know you are right about the NFPA approval, and I didn't say pick a bar on looks,

You don't need ANY years in the emergency services to figure this out. Many dealers have no personal involvement in any agency and they can still sell the product.

You said he should use the 911ep bar. You said that it was "killer" (thats 'looks' by the way) You also mentioned their new bar that is coming onto the market. I looked into that bar and again there is no NFPA certification.

You said it is all opinion, which it is not. There are requirements that take precidence over your opinion. Then you said you agree about the NFPA certifications. Why are you then trying to push the sale of a product you KNOW isn't right for the job?? Or maybe you don't know and are trying deal in it anyway which is almost worse.

In any case, you've shown one thing in this thread. Your total lack of knowlege of your own product, your competitors products, and the requirements for the use of these products means no self-respecting fire department should be buying anything from you. People's lives can depend on these things in traffic and you are making a mockery of it with this BS.

but continue to give me problem NM, that's fine.

I'm not giving you problems. It seems to me that your giving yourself problems by public stating your lack of knowlege and/or willful deception. You pick. The cats out of the bag now so this would be a good time to decide whether your lying or just don't know what your talking about.


Wow. It took me a long time to write this, revise it, edit it, etc. I am not trying to flame anyone or ruin someone's buisness. I only respond to what is in front of me. I could care less what brand equipment is used as long as it is the right equipment for the job. When I see something like this, I will not let it slide because the results can be really really bad. There are safety, legal, and moral issues here... all of which are far more important than playing favorites with anything. I hope those reading this can understand that and not see it just as ranting.

[firenresq77]

Thanks for looking out, nm..........

[SafetyLighting]

oh, ok, well I am sorry for not having any idea what I am talking, NM. You are obviously the smart one here, and have a lot of knowledge about LED's and lightbars and the NFPA. I on the other hand know nothing, and was trying to sell a worthless lightbar without an NFPA rating. My apologies to everyone. Oh and if anyone wants to buy a Whelen Lightbar, I sell them too, although I still prefer the Millenium, LOL.

I do have a serious question though, what are the requirements to become NFPA approved. I did a search for NFPA Lightbars on Google, and there were a lot of lightbars listed. Some of which didn't have much light output at all. So I'm curious how that works. I'm also curious about the lawsuit/insurance thing that NM mentioned for not having an NFPA lightbar. That strikes me as odd, because there are lots of departments that do not comply with NFPA recommendations. My department is one of them. We only have one new truck, all the others are older with minimal warning lights. So maybe we need to add some NFPA approved lighting to them.

Thanks for the input.

-John

[nmfire]

There are far more details than I can possibly list or describe. I would suggest checking out the NFPA documentation for further details. You can also check manufactuer websites for information (manufactuers that care and comply). There LOTS of requirements in involving many aspects of it's operation. There are lots of prodcuts out there that might be acceptable for a personal vehicle, but have no buiness on a fire truck. There are some products that would probably be fine, but the manufacturer does not certify them. Their loss.

An old apparatus only needs to meet old specifications, if there even were any at the time. Two of our engines are 10+ years old and do not meet all the new specs of today. Our newer apparatus are all up to the newer specs.

No fire apparatus manufacturer will build a truck that is not up to the current specifications. If you tell them you want such and such that is not approved, they will just not build it. How does this relate to the subject at hand?? It goes like this.

Any new fire apparatus will have a complete NFPA complient lighting package. If the truck is involved in an accident with another vehicle, you have at least one leg to stand on since everything was certified and up to the specs it was supposed to be up to.

If you decide to replace the lightbar with some other bar that has no certification, you just shot the complience of the whole front and side of the truck out of the water. If the truck is involved in an accident with another vehicle, you can bet the first thing the lawyers will want to know is this:

"So this truck was not in complience with current specifications? You knew this? You did it anyway intentionally? Why do you think you are above and beyond the standards of every other department? THIS ACCIDENT MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED IF THE PROPER WARNING DEVICES WERE IN USE."

Sell your house, you car, sign over every paycheck, and give up your first born to the people in the other vehicle. You were trying to help but that doesn't matter.

[Weruj1]

Safety,
I know it appears that NM is coming down kinda hard but is last post is the reality we face, apparatus' are now divided into warning light zones and there are many details about light output. We have replaced 2 soon to be 3 lightbars and in one instance Sutphen would not wire/hookup our 12 strobe bar to be non-compliant.