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    Default Seagrave introductions

    Seagrave has introduced some other new products. Interestingly enough, they are now marketing a "Seagrave" pump. Since they used to make their own pumps this may be an attempt to "go back to their roots." The pump looks VERY similar to a Darley pump, but that is OK. There must have a sales agreement. There new chassis look pretty good. I can't wait to see them in person. Trouble is that Seagrave does not have any dealers in Texas.

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    The new pumps are a joint venture between Seagrave and Darley. They seem to be an extremely well made pump.

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    Mile High in Round Rock is the Texas dealer last I heard. Just a thought.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Seagrave is also introducing new chassis technology to the industry that has been proven in the commercial truck industry. Below is a link to the press release.


    http://Seagrave.com/About_Us/News/press/042104.html
    nrz2334
    Just my view

    I would rather push my Seagrave than drive your Pierce!!

    TNT Rescue The Best!!!!!!!

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    Just a couple of points -

    I find it interesting that the new Seagrave cab has a striking resemblence to an American LaFrance Eagle! From the cab lines, to the contour of the raised roof, and even the air intake on the drivers side. Just can't get away from that ALF connection.

    The new Seagrave pump is in fact a Darley pump, just with Seagrave markings. Just like the ALF pump is a Hale pump. WHATEVER!!!

    I wonder if Seagrave will eventually allow RK to do more than just a rear mount platform? Kind of takes the "Single/Sole Source" out of the picture.

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    Default Seagrave / Rosenbauer RK - "Sole Source"

    I am not an attorney (so trust me...LOL!), but in most of my dealings with manufacturer's that form alliances and partnerships, such as the Seagrave/RK relationship, the manufacturer who "private labels" a component or product for integration into a finished "end product" steps up amd owns the warranty and liability. I have researched a few and found that when the product is marketed under a brand name such as a "Seagrave Pump", even though built by Darley, is a good thing for us who purchase them, as we then can deal with one person, verses several component manufacturers. In looking at the BIG 3 warranties I accessed, it clearly states that the warranty does not cover components that are not manufactured by the body builder and products that have a separate warranty by the respective component manufacturer. Unless the warranty is printed in the body builders name, you are advised to access warranty from the component manufacturer. Yes, if there is ever a liability case, there will be a bunch of other people’s names on the court papers!

    In the case of the "private label" products, they have printed warranties in the Body builder name which then lets them argue with the component manufacturer, not us as buyers. It’s better in my eyes, rather than dealing with 18 different people.

    I think the word "sole source" is GROSSLY mis-interpreted and some people have been sold a bill of goods by the body builders (primarily those who build their own chassis's and are trying to leverage their own chassis verses a sourced chassis). When was the last time Pierce warranted a Detroit Diesel engine? When was the last time E-One warranted an Allison transmission? When was the last time ALF warranted a UPF water tank? When was the last time Rosenbauer warranted a Waterous CAFS compressor? Now......if the body builder did something wrong when installing the component, they fight it out with component manufacturer to see who pays. Unfortunately, many times, we get caught in trying to get the truck fixed while people are pointing fingers at one another! If you are dealing with a legitimate manufacturer, they will buck up and fix the truck and worry about the liability after the smoke settles!

    Additionally, "sole source" is in my eyes a salesman’s pitch and truly over-rated. Lets see, hmmmmm....they all use Detroit, Cat, Cummins engines...they all use Rockwell, Spicer axles....they all use Modine, Blackstone radiators.....they all use Leece Neville, Lestec, Niehoff alternators…yada yada yada…. Now, look at the component manual and every one of these parts has a printed warranty that is published by the manufacturer, not Pierce, E-One, ALF, Rosenbauer, KME, Sutphen or any other. So are firetruck builders really sole source? I think not! They are component assemblers of a bunch of “stuff” that are packaged into a fire truck. I would call them "packagers and assemblers", not manufacturers, as the only thing they really "manufacture" is bent sheet metal and paint! So I ask; What is sole source, really? Want sole source? Make the manufacturer give you a warranty from bumper to bumper on EVERYTHING and then ask them for a price on that warranty!

    Stay Safe and good fishing,

    Fish

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    Sole source's advantage is having the chassis, body, and aerial made by the same manufacturer, like Pierce, Seagrave, Sutphen, ALF, KME, etc.
    Last edited by BVFD1983; 04-01-2006 at 03:21 AM.
    FTM - PTB

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    Default Single Source Misconception

    Firefish1488's thread about the "misconception" by many about single/sole soruce is very true YET BVFD1983 seems to be under the impression that it's such a major issue...

    Then how come Pierce and some of these other ALF, KME, E One don't make the same claim if it's a Commercial chassis they are selling!!!. It's a marketing hype and furthermore Pierce use to source the aerial device from a local firm until they finally bought.

    The main issue is "SINGLE/SOLE SOURCE RESPONSIBIILTY" that you deal with only one contact (IE Apparatus Manufacturer) to handle any and all issues. There is no way that any of these so called single/sole source builders such as the ones above are going to tell the engine, transmission, axle vendors that they make the decisions as to warranty....

    BVFD1983 is entitled to his/her opinion that Pierce is the be all end all but there are a LOT of FD's that don't buy Pierce and also don't use the "single/sole source" card in their spec's to ensure they get competitive bids from a builder that can and does take care of their warranty issues.

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    BVFD1983

    I sure hope that Pierce gives you a lot of baseball hats for as many posts that you dig up and throw their name into. How about sharing some ?

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    I'll take a hat too. Maybe I could trade a Seagrave one for one of yours.....well on second thought maybe not.

    I think next year is Seagraves 125th anniversery - and they are still around. Not too many builders that can say that.

    Could we get another forum thread called "Bashing"? Then the main thread could pertain to subjects of substance. **Wishful thinking optimist**

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    Quote Originally Posted by aerialguy1
    Then how come Pierce and some of these other ALF, KME, E One don't make the same claim if it's a Commercial chassis they are selling!!!. It's a marketing hype and furthermore Pierce use to source the aerial device from a local firm until they finally bought.
    Simple: Because when they build on a commercial chassis, it is no longer sole source. That would be false advertising.

    So what if Pierce used to source the aerials? It is now in house and that is the bottom line.
    Last edited by BVFD1983; 04-01-2006 at 03:21 AM.
    FTM - PTB

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    Wink Puh Leese

    BVFD1983-

    You obviously have your head stuck up your .........

    Yes, Pierce builds a good product. But you have been a little out of control digging up 2-3 year old posts just so that at the end you can tag on something about how Pierce builds the most and therefore are the best. I work for a department who just bought from someone other than Pierce after having been a Pierce only department. Because, they just don't build 'em like they used to. Mass production to their scale requires cuts somewhere. Yes they build the most, credit that to top rate marketing if you ask me. But the best........ that depends entirely on each departments needs. There are alot of small and mid-sized manufacturers who build just as good of a product and some even better. NOBODY and I mean NOBODY builds a mid-mount tower-ladder like Sutphen. Nobody builds as nice of an elliptical tanker as US Tanker. Yes, again Pierce builds a good product, but enough is enough. And for what it's worth..........you can keep the hats. LOL
    I have but one ambition in life and that is to become a firefighter.

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    I do not have any Pierce hats. I do not even wear a hat.

    You also need to get your facts straight. The last post on this thread before I brought it up was not even seventeen months old.
    FTM - PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983
    I do not have any Pierce hats. I do not even wear a hat.

    You also need to get your facts straight. The last post on this thread before I brought it up was not even seventeen months old.
    lol... I don't think there is much of a difference between 17 months and 24 months. The point was made that you are just trying to spread your feces over old posts.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Facts are facts, and this is not a "2-3 year old" thread.

    Number do not lie.
    FTM - PTB

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    BVFD1983...

    I see...so a 17 month old post is not an old post?

    We are in the process of speccing a new truck and one of the guys on the committee has a one track mind about Pierce. I have asked him repeatedly why a Pierce and he has no clear definitive answer other than well they are Pierce.

    Does Pierce build a decent truck? Most of the time. Although they are the only one I am aware of with all steer that had trucks going into "hit the tree mode" all on their own. Didn't they just go do a hush hush retrofit on all of those trucks? Don't kid yourself they have as many problems as anyone else.

    By the way, I do not sell fire trucks so I have no axe to grind or point to make about a product I sell.

    Pierce has all but priced themselves out of our market, as has Seagrave. It doesn't make sense to me how companies think the name is worth an extra 20K or more than the competition.

    I have to ask...are you a Pierce saleman? If not you ought to be because the brainwashing is complete.

    FyredUp

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    Arrow Yup - Facts are Facts

    BVFD1983-

    You are right..........but only for that post. Which, Mr. Smarty Pants, is picking out only one single post that you have recently taken a big fat dump on. If you had indeed read my post, you would have seen that I referred to your "posts". Another post that you took a big #2 on was started back on 5-14-2003. Which if my math is right was 2 years, 4 months and 16 days ago. Let it go kid. if you have something meaningful to donate to these forums then great, bring it on. Otherwise, we would appreciate it if you wouldn't ruin perfectly good posts with your one-sided firetruck bigetry.
    I have but one ambition in life and that is to become a firefighter.

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    "I have to ask...are you a Pierce saleman? If not you ought to be because the brainwashing is complete."

    No.
    FTM - PTB

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    efd281: You act like I am the only one on here who pushes Pierce...
    FTM - PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983
    efd281: You act like I am the only one on here who pushes Pierce...
    Please tell me then... Why do you feel compelled to "push" Pierce on somebody? This whole thread really had nothing to do with Pierce. It had to do with Seagrave's pump and the discussion then went to other manufacturers with their own pump A.K.A. ALF, Darley and such. Then it went into sole-sourcing in general... nothing specific about Pierce. So Pierce did not fit in this conversation. So why "push" it in?

    I cannot understand the compulsion of people on here that they must "push" thier favorite brand on other people and bash on every thread about any of the other manufacturers. Sure, I have my favorites. But when it comes down to it, we buy the apparatus that best suits us, not because somebody on our committee likes a certain brand.
    Last edited by IronsMan53; 10-01-2005 at 11:26 AM.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Exclamation We don't negotiate with terrorists..

    You are the only one in this thread who has hijacked it and made it about Pierce. Stop digging up old post about other manufacturers and adding a Pierce jab.

    We will not negotiate with terrorists you hijacking Pierce freak!!!!

    "The only difference between a 'Pierce' and a 'Piece' is the 'r'" LOL
    I have but one ambition in life and that is to become a firefighter.

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    Funny

    No, not funny.
    FTM - PTB

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    BVFD...

    Okay so you are not Pierce saleman....then why the almost demented desire to force your Pierce fetish on everyone else?

    I can't help but wonder if you are nothing more than a teenaged explorer and really just plain don't know any better.

    FyredUp

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    Seeing how explorers know/care who the apparatus manufacturer is...
    FTM - PTB

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    BVFD,,,

    Now it's all clear. You are a teenaged explorer who looks at the shiny red paint and chrome and because someone told you Pierce is best you think it is automatically so.

    Perhaps if you opened your mind and listened to guys here who have more time operating actual fire apparatus than you have being alive you might learn a few things.

    But in the meantime how about stopping the endless and mindless posting of your unsubstantiated Pierce propaganda. Because in reality at this point you have no credibility. You sound like little more than an endless loop casette that just syas the same thing over and over and over.

    Give it a rest....

    FyredUp

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