View Poll Results: KME predetor or spartan gladiator

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  • KME

    16 37.21%
  • Spartan

    27 62.79%

Thread: KME Vs. E-one

  1. #1
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    Default KME Vs. E-one

    I need comments on the peformance and repair side of the manufactuers chassis and or info on how they perform in crashes
    Last edited by LFDLtHill; 05-10-2004 at 03:25 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default About your poll

    The thread title is KME vs E-One

    but your poll is
    which is better ? KME? or Spartan?

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    Thumbs up KME Service is Great!

    The department I used to belong to bought a KME Custom pumper in 2000. We have not had any problems with it, except little minor "hit list" stuff when it was delivered. After 1 call they came to us fixed everything in one stop. Dealing with KME was a very good experience from sales to service. It seemed liked they did care about us even after the sale. (which sometimes can be hard to find) If you guys are contemplating buying one I would recommend them. As far as the safety of their Predetor cab i dont have any experience with it, but i checked into it, and it was crash tested by an independant laboratory and met all requirements. So safety wise I'd have to believe your in as good as hands as in a Spartan and if it's less expensive, why not?

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    Default WOW!

    K-Mart Equipment or E-Won't........


    How about a hand-drawn hose wagon and chemical cart? It will go farther, faster, and put more fire out!


    Bottom line....If you buy either, make sure you have a heavy tow truck operator on 24-hour retainer!
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 05-06-2004 at 06:39 PM.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  5. #5
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    Default Re: KME Service is Great!

    Originally posted by FireTruckMan72

    So safety wise I'd have to believe your in as good as hands (KME)as in a Spartan and if it's less expensive, why not?
    I believe that if you were price shopping for a custom cab/chassis fire apparatus, Spartan, or HME would beat KME hands down.

    Just for giggles, as FirenRescue77 about his KME

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    ya know ...............I wouldnt vote for either one !!!! uhmmmmmhey '77 you wanna chime in ?
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Default Always one in a bunch

    Oh yeah Weruj,I've seen you eyeballin' that Ward Lafrance.Would that be yer final answer?Hehe T.C.

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    is it an Ambassador ???????????? E-51 rocks !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    I'll take a real Fox anyday. Still used today for tanker fill. Nothing drafts faster than a piston pump. And just happened to have been used for a limo in my wedding.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    KME???????? LMAO!!!!! Seriously, everyone builds a bad truck every now and then. It all depends on the service they provide you..... We'll see in the next few weeks about service for us........

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    Still used today for tanker fill.
    If that's true, then that truck right there takes the cake!

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    Is that thing NFPA compliant????

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    At the time it was, 1923. Was built by Ahrens-Fox and pump rated at 1000gpm. Pump tested a few years ago at 1160gpm. Bought new and still owned by Doylestown FC, Doylestown PA. (B)ucks (C)ounty Stations 19 & (79). er. Hence the BC79er.

    Truck will only top out at 35mph, but what can you expect from a low compression engine that can idle at 100rpm?

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    It isn't quite the same case as a 1923 model year vehicle, but we have a 1960's Dodge Powerwagon for grass fires that just won't quit. Quite a handful on the road, exceedingly slow with horrible brakes, but off the beaten path the thing is a tank.

    Its slated to be taken out of service within the year, but we're all hoping that the powers that be chose to keep on hand for parades and such.

    That old Fox does kick tail though. Too cool.

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    We have a KME in service for 5 years ( the Excel chassis). As I've posted before, the only issues we had were with vendor supplied items( Whelen ArrowStick, Onan Generator, Wilburt Light tower). From a mechanical standpoint, the only thing which needed attention was an exhaust manifold gasket(covered under Cummins warranty). As far as accidents, I have seen two KME's which were involved in accidents where the cab had significant damage after hitting stationary objects, yet none of the passengers were seriously hurt.

    We are currently researching ideas for a new engine to replace our 29 year old piece. We have looked at different brands and much to my surprise, the are other makes with issues. One company we visited wanted to unload their much despised Seagrave ladder because of all the reliability issues they had since the unit was new. Another had to send their Seagrave engine to a smaller mom and pop manufacturer because the back of the hose body was falling off. That truck was only a few years old. Wasn't there a brand new FDNY rig which burned up as it was recently being delivered? A neighboring company just took delivery of a Pierce which had to go back to the Pierce rep for several days because of quality issues. Does that make all of Seagraves and Pierces junk? Hardly. It is probably a rare occasion where a new vehicle is delivered without any problems.

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    Allow me to weigh in here. I am a big supporter of E-One, in particular the E-One aerial line. I have worked off of a Seagrave, Quality, ALF, Pierce, E-One, KME, Smeal, Pirsch (Am I showing my age), WLF etc. once or twice. LOL. When it comes to pumpers there are only slight, and I mean very slight differences. E-One electrical is accused of being poor, Pierce has probably the best fit and finish in the industry, KME has a bad rep for this, Seagrave can't do that right, and on and on. It comes down to CORRECT, DETAILED AND ACCURATE SPECIFICATIONS THAT THE CUSTOMER CHANGES FOR THEMSELVES ONLY. The manufacturer is not going to be making runs on it and therefore has ZERO to say about it.

    For the question at hand, which is better, KME or E-One they both have their good points and bad:

    E-One: Single source maker longer. Superior engineering when it comes to aerials on pumpers. Building methods are better with their extruded aluminum cab and bodies which mean better crash resistence and safety for the crew. Close minded at the factory if you want to do something that is not in their play book and will SPQ you to death when they do decide to do it.

    KME: Excellent balance and road handling on the ones I have ridden and driven. Seem to hold up reasonably well long term with heavy use (We still have '91's as frontline rigs in my career department). Electrical issues have arisen that seem to take three or four attempts to rectify with atleast one more re-occuring within six months.

    Overall, you get what you pay for and put the time into. As Oldone put it, nobody builds a perfect fire truck. Your only kidding yourself and your citizens if you think that your the one department who is going to get the perfect rig the first time its backed into the station with no problems. No matter the maker they all have issues at the start, some minor and some not so minor. I can show you a Pierce pumper with a 6V92 that ran on only 5 cylinders since the day it was delivered. It left the factory like that and stayed like that until the department figured it out like 8 or 9 years later. It doesn't mean all Pierce rigs are bad. I can show you a Seagrave that isn't worth the cost of the asphalt it sits on or the diesel thats put in it. But that doesn't mean every Seagrave rig is like that. And believe it or not, I can show you an E-One Hush that from day one has been the biggest mechanical nightmare known to mankind. It doesn't mean every E-One rig is a problem.

    As an old friend of mine who had many years on the HFD apparatus committee told me one day during a pre-build conference..."The apparatus maker is going to build what you tell them to AND what you let them get away with". How true that statement is and how right he is. Just some thoughts.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Last edited by STATION2; 05-08-2004 at 06:21 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Oh boy...well, our dept. has had ALF's for many many years and was their first and only choice since the early 50's...and now (since 99) we have been replacing the units with KME's. we have had very little problems with either our 99 or the 01. what do i mean by problems? the normal stuff that every and i mean EVERY mfg would have and usually are so small and piddly that their not worth mentioning. we are currently specing out a new rescue with KME. now we have the depts. around here are brand loyal of course...and the one co. near us has E-Ones and so far they have been very upset with them...in fact their bigarse resuce they have has been repainted 4 times in its first 5 years..and now their new eng is having the same paint troubles.
    just a thought, if ya look in any of the mags running around these days just check out how many e-ones...pierce...salsbury(sp)...are for sale compaired to KME...just my 2 cents worth...oh and would somebody tell me how to post pics on here??? thanks

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    Originally posted by dwwm2c4
    just a thought, if ya look in any of the mags running around these days just check out how many e-ones...pierce...salsbury(sp)...are for sale compaired to KME...
    Because nobody wants to buy a KME!!!!

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    For sale doesn't mean bad, it just means that company no longer needs it. The proper thing to look at would be how many are for sale for how long. Used E-Ones & Pierces rarely sit for long, the exceptions being units with specs no one wants on any truck. Which proves what everyone else is saying: spec it the way you want/need it, and make sure your manufacturer builds it that way.

    We have a 95 KME on a Spartan chassis. It's really underpowered with a 300HP Cat motor, but that's the way it was spec'd, so it's not KME's fault it has no oomph. It's had many electical gremlins, but a lot of those were the fault of our repair guys, Darryl and Darryl. No Larry to lead them unfortunately.

    For those that are now lost, i.e. under the age of 27: "I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, this is my other brother Darryl." from the Bob Newhart show. Bob Newhart, the guy on ER who Susan was treating for depression, shot himself in the head when she didn't show for dinner.

    Ah @#&(_%. Call them Beavis and Butthead, you get the point. They're idiots. Which is why we don't use them anymore.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by BC79er
    For sale doesn't mean bad, it just means that company no longer needs it.
    Thought the smiley faces would give it away, but that was a joke..........

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by BC79er
    For those that are now lost, i.e. under the age of 27: "I'm Larry, this is my brother Darryl, this is my other brother Darryl." from the Bob Newhart show. Bob Newhart, the guy on ER who Susan was treating for depression, shot himself in the head when she didn't show for dinner.

    Ah @#&(_%. Call them Beavis and Butthead, you get the point. They're idiots. Which is why we don't use them anymore.
    Heck im gunna show my age...i remember watching that show all the time heheheh.....

    "firenresq77 Thought the smiley faces would give it away, but that was a joke.........."

    heck i got that hehehehe, i was kind thinking there not in the mags for sale cause everybody is happy with them and arent selling them hahaha

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    I was agreeing with y'all on why you don't see many KMEs for sale. Everyone that has them knows that no one will buy them. The rest of the brands people put up for sale knowing that they'll go quick.

    Another age check: I called one of our new guys 'Ralph Malph' because he looks just like him. Had no idea what I was talking about.

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    Originally posted by BC79er
    I was agreeing with y'all on why you don't see many KMEs for sale. Everyone that has them knows that no one will buy them. The rest of the brands people put up for sale knowing that they'll go quick.

    Another age check: I called one of our new guys 'Ralph Malph' because he looks just like him. Had no idea what I was talking about.
    Sorry, BC... just took it wrong.......

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    No offense taken. I had to re-read yours to see if I read it too fast like I usually do.

    Besides, I've been called worse by patients I've been cutting out of cars. Temptation sets in to leave them there a little longer but...

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    I have read with interest the debate about KME vs E-One and thought I would weigh in. We have a 1999 KME with all the bells and whistles, a real parade truck. For the money we paid it doesn't have the quality that our 91 Pierce or even our 2000 KW Contender have in fit and finish of the cabinets or cab interior, we have had to have the compartment doors refinished because paint was blistering around the D handles the doors have never shut tight and always have rattled, yes we have had it back to the dealer (4 hours away) and they do what they can but the quality just wasn't there from the begining. It also seems like KME uses lower grade elect. connections and wiring, things just don't seem to be as high of quality as one would expect on a high end custom parade truck. We didn't spec the speedlays or the front bumper line compartment to be large enough to hold the length of hoses we anticipated, our mistake but it would have been nice for the dealer or factory engineers to point this out when they reviewed the plans and were telling us how great the truck was going to be. I don't think we will be purchasing a KME again I believe other brands would give you more value for your dollar, the truck isn't a lemon it just isn't worth the money we paid for it.

    P.S. this is my first post hope there aren't to many spelling errors

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