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  1. #1
    Forum Member StayBack500FT's Avatar
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    Default Roger!!!! Over And Out!!!

    What exactly is the origin of my title statement?


    (This comes up as I heard it come across the airways not too long ago...an older generation Crustie manning a base radio )
    May we never forget our fallen, worldwide.

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  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    From my radio training courtesy of the army, the correct statements at the end of a statement/radio call are:

    1) (your speech).... Over... (which means that you are finished speaking, and are now waiting for a reply.)

    2) (your speech).... Out. (which means that you are done speaking and are also terminating the conversation. Translation: you do not expect a reply back.)

    Hollywood has taken this and combined the two of them, with the "Over and out", which is an incorrect statment. I have heard rookie radio operators use this while working in the CP, and have seen the Senior controller turn funny colours and nearly choke, and then quietly explain to the new guy the intricacies of radio communications. The restraint I have seen in some of the Old Guard is pretty amazing. LOL
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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  3. #3
    Forum Member SafetyPro's Avatar
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    Default

    Back in the Morse Code days, the letter "R" (dit-dah-dit) was used to indicate "OK" . Prior to and during WWII, the following phonetic alphabet (with some variations) was used, with "Roger" corresponding to the letter "R".

    Able, Baker, Charlie, Dog, Edward, Fox, George, How, Item, Jig, King, Love, Mike, Nan, Oboe, Peter, Queen, Roger, Sugar, Tape, Uncle, Victor, William, X-Ray, Yoke, Zebra

    The current phonetic alphabet, developed by NATO in the 50s, is as follows:

    Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India, Juliet, Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, Papa, Quebec, Romeo, Sierra, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whiskey, X-Ray, Yankee, Zulu

    WILCO, another term often heard in conjunction with ROGER, is short for "Will Comply". So, ROGER means "I understand" and ROGER WILCO means "I understand and will comply".
    Chris Gaylord
    Emergency Planner / Fire Captain, UC Santa Cruz FD

  4. #4
    Forum Member PFire23's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by SafetyPro
    Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel, India, Juliet, Kilo, Lima, Mike, November, Oscar, Papa, Quebec, Romeo, Sierra, Tango, Uniform, Victor, Whiskey, X-Ray, Yankee, Zulu
    This is the phonetic alphabet we use when spelling something out for dispatch and vise versa. I have heard variations for the letter/word correspondances though.
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  5. #5
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    Default

    And using it correctly should be something like

    Hotel
    Alpha
    Lima
    Lima
    Oscar

    "End of word"

    Yankee
    Oscar
    Uniform

    I know that sounds simple, but it sure avoids getting the wrong response when reading labels of containers at Hazmat scenes.

    Also for a period during the Vietnam conflict Charlie was replaced by Cain to avoid confusion.
    Last edited by FlyingKiwi; 05-10-2004 at 04:33 PM.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Anyway's Avatar
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    Default Alphabet

    Here in my neck of the woods, we use names instead of the "military" version:

    Adam, Baker, Charlie, David, Edward, Frank, George, Henry, Ida, John, King, Lincoln, Mary, Nora, Ocean, Paul, Queen, Robert, Sam, Tom, Union, Victor, William, Xray, Yellow, Zebra...

    Not sure why though, guess we gotta be different...
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  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Hey folks!!!! SB's original question was on the use of ROGER... OVER AND OUT...

    This has little to do with the phonetic alphabet and everything to do with correct radio procedure, which from listening to the radio a great many of us don't do. The message gets across in the end, so I guess that's good enough.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  8. #8
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Default

    If it's any consolation, we have all kinds of variations out here used by agencies all withing radio range of one-another.

    To imply the word "OK", you might hear any of the following:
    Roger
    10-4
    Signal 99 (I have no idea why...)
    "Recieved"
    "Repeat?"
    And if your near NYC, my all time favorite, the infamous "K"!

    Then of course, everyone has different codes for things like enroute, arriving, etc. None of them are in any logical order and none of them serve any real purpose anymore. We are concidering a change to plain english just due the foolishness of the codes.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  9. #9
    IACOJ Agitator Adze39's Avatar
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    Default

    Whenever someone says "Roger" around here, we ask them "Who's Roger?"

    IACOJ Agitator
    Fightin' Da Man Since '78!

  10. #10
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default

    This has little to do with the phonetic alphabet and everything to do with correct radio procedure
    Shoot, we can't even follow a thread correctly, how can anyone expect us to follow radio procedures...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Default

    HA HA HA HA
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  12. #12
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Originally posted by FlyingKiwi

    Also for a period during the Vietnam conflict Charlie was replaced by Cain to avoid confusion. [/B]

    Pal, I have news for you sir. Vietman wasn't a "conflict". It was a war!

    I am not sure where you derive your information but I can assure you that you are wrong with that statement!


    Whiskey
    Alpha
    Serira

    Tango
    Hotel
    Echo
    Romeo
    Echo

    Kilo
    India
    Lima
    Lima
    Iima
    November
    Golf


    Charlie!!!


    Roger


    Over


    Out!

  13. #13
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    Default

    Roger; your message had been received and understood.
    Over; I have finished my message and expect a response
    Out; I have finished my message and do not expect a response.
    He has seen into the eyes of angels and they lookd back upon him as a brother

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber ullrichk's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by nmfire

    "Repeat?"

    I catch myself using "Say Again?" instead of "Repeat." Some habits are hard to break.

    One of my pet peeves is the use of "Copy" instead of "Affirmative." "Copy" is our department SOP for "10-4" "Roger" etc. It does not answer a yes or no question - only that the receiver heard.
    ullrichk
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  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Default

    CaptOldTimer, I am not going to throw stones or poke fingers, but historically speaking (and I mean from the history books only) Vietnam is listed as a "conflict", just as Korea was not a "war" either, listing in as a "Police Action" - I am not sure what that means in English, but thats what the books read. In my personal opinion though, anyw event that involves "throwing" bullets, grenades or bombs at another person is a War. I don't know how the History Geeks come up with their terms of description for any military action.

    However, as a current serving Army Geek, I share your thoughts of "what is" or "is not", having been on the other side of the world 3x now in the last 10 or 12 years. Once for the UN (August 1988 - February 1989), once for the US (November 2001 - March 2002), and once on a "beer run", courtesy of the Navy.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  16. #16
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    Default

    Just as WW2 was a conflict, Korea was a conflict etc, and they were wars as well.

    PS. My apologies about the "Cain" I guess my old Warrant Officer was wrong, after all who should believe a man who spent two one year tours in Vietnam with the New Zealand Army SAS.

    He simply said that the ANZAC (Aussie and Kiwi soldiers) had to use "Cain" to avoid confusion with the American use of "Charlie" for the enemy.

    I guess your response proves the logic behind that idea.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  17. #17
    Forum Member SafetyPro's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by MalahatTwo7
    CaptOldTimer, I am not going to throw stones or poke fingers, but historically speaking (and I mean from the history books only) Vietnam is listed as a "conflict", just as Korea was not a "war" either, listing in as a "Police Action" - I am not sure what that means in English, but thats what the books read. In my personal opinion though, anyw event that involves "throwing" bullets, grenades or bombs at another person is a War. I don't know how the History Geeks come up with their terms of description for any military action.

    However, as a current serving Army Geek, I share your thoughts of "what is" or "is not", having been on the other side of the world 3x now in the last 10 or 12 years. Once for the UN (August 1988 - February 1989), once for the US (November 2001 - March 2002), and once on a "beer run", courtesy of the Navy.
    Vietnam and Korea weren't "officially" wars because the U.S. Congress never issued a Declaration of War against either country. The U.S. has only formally declared war against eleven countries in its history:

    Great Britain - The War of 1812
    Mexico - Mexican-American War of 1846
    Spain - Spanish-American War of 1898
    Germany and Austria-Hungary - World War I
    Japan, Germany, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania - World War II

    World War II was the last official Declaration of War. Vietnam, the 1991 Gulf War, Kosovo and the current War on Terror and Iraq War are Congressionally-authorized military engagements, but no formal Declaration of War was issued for any of these. Korea wasn't even Congressionally-authorized...President Truman committed troops in support of UN resolutions (hence the term "police action" often associated with Korea).

    Is it just spliting hairs? Yes and no. From a practical standpoint, I agree with Malahat, and I don't want to sound like I'm in any way trying to lessen what our troops endured in Vietnam, Kuwait, Iraq, etc. My dad and uncle both served in 'Nam, and I have nothing but respect for those who served there. They were wars (in the practical sense) just as much as WWII was.

    However, a formal Declaration of War does make a difference in that it gives a great deal of additional powers to the President, such as modification of defense contracts, regulation of banking (including freezing foreign assets), the seizing of foreign vessels in U.S. waters, etc.
    Chris Gaylord
    Emergency Planner / Fire Captain, UC Santa Cruz FD

  18. #18
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    In radio procedure the reason for "say again" instead of "repeat" was the artillery uses repeat to send another round (as repeat fire).. old artilleryman (9th artillery battalion, 3rd infantry division)
    SB (Local 1355 retired)

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber ullrichk's Avatar
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    Originally posted by StoveBolt
    In radio procedure the reason for "say again" instead of "repeat" was the artillery uses repeat to send another round (as repeat fire).. old artilleryman (9th artillery battalion, 3rd infantry division)

    I haven't been "required" to use "say again" for about fifteen years - but I still do. 82nd Airborne - very briefly
    ullrichk
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  20. #20
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    CaptOldTimer.

    no insult or offence meant.

    And DO NOT call me Sir. I work for my living.
    (Former NCO)
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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