Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 24
  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber Firefighter430's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Virgilina, VA USA
    Posts
    323

    Default No Outcry From The Iraqi People Or The Arab Community

    Got this today.

    I am not condoning what happened to the Iraqi prisoners... however, I think it is vitally important that, in my head, I have these matters in proper perspective...

    * Saddam had Iraqi men, women and children put to death, in human meat grinders, on a daily basis... NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY ....

    *Saddam had people thrown off of 3 - 4 story buildings, while their relatives were forced to watch... NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

    * Saddam had people's tongues cut out, limbs chopped off and even beheaded, while their families were forced to watch... NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

    * Saddam's sons, as well as other administrators and military personnel, raped and sodomized Iraqi girls - some as young as 8 years old - on a daily basis... NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

    * Saddam's regime indiscriminately put to death millions of Iraqi citizens, on a daily basis, during the term of his brutal dictatorship, as evidenced by the mass graves recently uncovered, in various parts of Iraq... NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

    * Terrorists recently exploded several car bombs in Baghdad, killing 17 innocent Iraqi children and several dozen innocent Iraqi citizens... NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

    * Terrorists have been killing American/Coalition soldiers, on a daily basis, since we sent our troops (many of whom gave their lives on Iraqi soil) and used US taxpayer dollars to liberate the Iraqi people... NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB COMMUNITY...

    * Four Americans were killed in Fallujah. Their bodies were burned, mutilated, dragged through the streets and hung on a bridge, while Iraqi people cheered and stoned them... NO OUTCRY FROM THE IRAQI PEOPLE OR THE ARAB coMMUNITY...

    AND NOW... A few Iraqi prisoners have been humiliated (poor babies)...A pair of women's underwear was put on their heads... A few naked photographs were taken... AND THE IRAQI PEOPLE GO BALLISTIC... ALONG WITH THE ENTIRE ARAB COMMUNITY...

    GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

    As said, I don't condone what happened to the prisoners, but, until the Iraqi people and the Arab Community, as a whole, get their act together...

    WE ARE AT WAR!
    AND I DON'T WANT MY PRESIDENT TO APOLOGIZE TO THE ARABS FOR ANYTHING !
    "Illegitimis non carborundum."

    - Gen. Joseph Stilwell
    (Lat., "Don't let the *~#%&S grind you down.")


  2. #2
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,757

    Default

    Ummmmmmmm.

    When you use the actions of a dictator your country has removed by military force to condone the actions of some of your own. IT STINKS.

    When you condone the breaking of your own and internationally agreed laws on the treatment of prisoners. IT STINKS.

    There was no outcry from the Iraqi people, because those that did suffered the fates you mention.

    PS You are not at war with Iraq. You are the occupying forces after a succesful war has been concluded, approximately three weeks after the invasion your President declared the war to be over.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  3. #3
    Forum Member StayBack500FT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    2,236

    Default Re: No Outcry From The Iraqi People Or The Arab Community

    Originally posted by Firefighter430
    Got this today.

    I am not condoning what happened to the Iraqi prisoners...


    Ummmm...actually you are.

    I think we, as Americans, should be above tormenting POW's. (as most of our dedicated soldiers are)
    May we never forget our fallen, worldwide.

    I.A.C.O.J. Safety/Traffic Control Officer

    E6511

    "Who's Who Among American Teachers" - 2005, 2006 Honoree

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber Firefighter430's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Virgilina, VA USA
    Posts
    323

    Default

    Note the first sentence. "I got this today". I think that most of the points are valid. Where was the Arab community when this was going on under Saddam? As far as what happened with the prisoners this is what I think went on. How do you scare a man who cares nothing about dying? Any way you can! If it means saving your buddy on the streets of some rathole town you do what you need to do. You can sit here and say "Oh no not me, I would never do that". Yes you would if you thought you could save a life. It goes on here too. Do you think that if NYPD caught a guy that just shot one of their own in a dark building that he wouldn't come out with a few more bumps than he went in with. Sure he would.
    "Illegitimis non carborundum."

    - Gen. Joseph Stilwell
    (Lat., "Don't let the *~#%&S grind you down.")

  5. #5
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    5,213

    Default

    Originally posted by Firefighter430
    Where was the Arab community when this was going on under Saddam?
    Like Kiwi said.......... These people didn't speak out when Saddam was doing all of that because if they did, they would receive the same treatment they were complaining about. They CAN complain about it now without having to worry about repercussions........

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1

    Default just my opinion

    now i know some people will be offended by this but oh well... what our troops did to the prisoners is wrong.. i agree with that.. i also agree with the statement that those people wouldnt speak up against sadam for fear of the same treatment to them and their families. but what i dont get is.. we go over there, take sadam out.. free those people from all that... rebuild their towns , schools, and do what we can in our power to help them out.. and what do we get out of it...
    ** Four Americans were killed in Fallujah. Their bodies were burned, mutilated, dragged through the streets and hung on a bridge, while Iraqi people cheered and stoned them. our citizens are over there helping out and they get kidnapped, and murdered..

    and i know its not the iraqi people as a whole doing this.. but when it happens and you see the iraqi people cheering, and saying into the camera that they would do the same thing if an american were there... whats up with that..

    they dont want us there... which has been shown on the news numerous times... then we pull out.. stop helping, stop building, stop everything.. let them go back to what they had... then they will realize what we are trying to acomplish..

    and the arab people that are over here... if they agree with how americans were being treated.. then back you go.. run your motels and 7-11's over there.. if youre arab and you agree with american law, how things should be done, and live in a civilized manor... then by all means stay and prosper, more power to you..

    now before certain people in here go off on me calling me racist or whatever.. im not.. i just dont get why we help, when we get ourselves killed in the process.. kinda messed up..

  7. #7
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    Originally posted by Firefighter430
    How do you scare a man who cares nothing about dying? Any way you can! If it means saving your buddy on the streets of some rathole town you do what you need to do.
    So, you make a group of them strip naked, pile up on each other and then you pose next to them while smiling and giving a thumbs up? that saves your buddy on the streets? Nope. Sorry. I don't think so. I can't support that.

  8. #8
    Forum Member StayBack500FT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    2,236

    Default

    What I'm saying is this....don't make a blanket statement of "I don't condone this.." when obviously you do.


    Show me some cold hard proof that naked Iraqi prisoners saved a life and I'll find you a bit more credible.
    May we never forget our fallen, worldwide.

    I.A.C.O.J. Safety/Traffic Control Officer

    E6511

    "Who's Who Among American Teachers" - 2005, 2006 Honoree

  9. #9
    Forum Member cellblock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    St Gabriel, La
    Posts
    708

    Default

    Yes you would if you thought you could save a life.
    If it means getting information which could save a soldiers life then I'm all for it. Strap the bugger to a chair, give me an electric drill and a propane torch and I'll get you the name, address, phone number and shoe size of every militant in town. It ain't personal, buddy. It's just business. Tell me what I want to know and the pain will stop and we can enjoy a couple of ham sandwiches and beers like civilized people. If you don't talk, well I still have a few drill bits I haven't used and there's a fresh battery for the drill just sitting in the charger waiting for you to decide.
    Steve
    EMT/Security Officer

  10. #10
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,757

    Default

    like civilized people
    Only one civilized person in THAT room.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  11. #11
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default Re: Re: No Outcry From The Iraqi People Or The Arab Community

    Originally posted by StayBack500FT




    Ummmm...actually you are.

    I think we, as Americans, should be above tormenting POW's. (as most of our dedicated soldiers are)
    I agree with this statement. How ever if I were to have to choose between wearing women's underwear or having a dog collar around my neck, or suffer what some U.S. citizens have suffered over there, I choose the underwear and dog collar. ...... Everything needs to be taken in perspective, again not justifying what happened at Abu Ghraib. Just think about which stories garner more press and media coverage. How long were the stories about the contractors or Nick Berg in the news, Abu Ghraib is still very much a leading story. Just a thought.

  12. #12
    Forum Member cellblock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    St Gabriel, La
    Posts
    708

    Default

    How ever if I were to have to choose between wearing women's underwear or having a dog collar around my neck, or suffer what some U.S. citizens have suffered over there, I choose the underwear and dog collar.
    What's so wrong with that? I'm wearing women's underware right now. And about once a week my old lady makes me wear the collar and harness she bought for me in the French Quarter. You say it like it's a bad thing. Sheese!
    Steve
    EMT/Security Officer

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    136

    Default

    Originally posted by FlyingKiwi
    When you use the actions of a dictator your country has removed by military force to condone the actions of some of your own. IT STINKS.
    The actions by those few soldiers was NOT the actions of the former dictator. The former dictator would have chopped their heads off and thrown them into a mass grave with thousands of others. They were just humiliated. There is a difference.

    When you condone the breaking of your own and internationally agreed laws on the treatment of prisoners. IT STINKS.


    Uh, no, he said he WAS NOT condoning the treatment of the prisoners and you're nobody to say that he is. I don't condone it either. I do not think they should have been treated that way.

    There was no outcry from the Iraqi people, because those that did suffered the fates you mention.
    Finally a decent point. That's why we liberated them. But you're forgetting about the entire Arab community. They stood silent all that time.

    PS You are not at war with Iraq. You are the occupying forces after a succesful war has been concluded, approximately three weeks after the invasion your President declared the war to be over.
    Wrong again! Bush did NOT say the war was over. He said "MAJOR COMBAT OPERATIONS HAVE ENDED." He knew there would be isolated incidents and that the country would need to be rebuilt. Of course our military had to stay and occupy Iraq. We couldn't just liberate them and leave them with no government, no police, no electricity, etc. You have to be severely biased Kiwi to not see any Arab hypocrisy in his post.

  14. #14
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,334

    Default

    This is a stupid, needless war, and nothing good will EVER come of it. America was lied to from day one about why we were invading another nation, and the government is still lying about it. I see Tenet's head rolled, today. Fine time for him to decide to "retire."

  15. #15
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4,757

    Default

    You have to be severely biased Kiwi to not see any Arab hypocrisy in his post.
    Never said I didn't.

    Just the same hypocrisy shown between Tutsi and Hutu in Ruwanda.

    Mugabees supporters seem to have a dose of it too.

    Catholic and Protestant in Ireland.

    Germans in WWII.

    Need we mention the Klu Klux Klan?

    Need I go back further than 1/2 way through last century, and be damn straight I only scratched the surface with these few examples.

    It is not Hypocrisy. Like it or not it is the human condition.

    Does that clear up any misconceptions?
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  16. #16
    the 4-1-4 Jasper 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    ...A great place, on a Great Lake
    Posts
    2,784

    Default

    All war is stupid. I can think of no greater waste of money lives and resources. It is needless. It is needless that muslim extremists chose to hijack aircraft and fly them into our buildings. It was needless for muslim extremists to declare "jihad" on all non-muslim infidels simply because we believe differently than they do. We did not start this, but we will finish it. They do not hate us because we support Israel, a democracy. They hate us because we are "non-believers". They hate us for the freedoms we possess, and all people deserve. They hate us because we feel all people should be able to choose their own or religion, or disregard God entirely. They hate us because our women have equal rights as men. They hate us because of everything our nation stands for. They hate all western nations because they have many of the same freedoms we have. This unfortunately was a "needed" war because iraq under saddam supported terror. Iraq under saddam dedicated itself to destroying the west. And yes al-quaeda was in iraq prior to Sept. 11, 2001. No government is perfect, but it is awfully easy to sit and criticize from an easy chair when life and death decisions can be criticized after the fact by all people who have no liability on their opinions. This country is the greatest because of our abilities to post like this. Many in this world can't.

  17. #17
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,334

    Default

    Again, Iraq had diddly-squat to do with 9/11. And those people hate us because we have meddled in their affairs since oil became the number one commodity in the world. We support tyrants and murderers, just as long as the oil keeps flowing the way we want it to. I'm not going to go into this whole thing again. Anyone who remembers the threads we had months ago will remember I said the exact same thing. I think it's pretty clear by now why we are there. None of the reasons Bush gave us for war were true. Of course, the placed all the blame on the CIA, and now Tenet's out of a job. Boy, didn't see THAT one coming! What a farce.

  18. #18
    Forum Member DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Aside from the stands of whether this war was "right" or "wrong" or "necessary" or "Unnecessary" I was talking with a fellow a week or two ago and he made an interesting point.

    What went on in that detention center, other than any accusations of raping with plungers adn the like, is it much different than what goes on every semester on thousands of college campuses across the United States when fraternities induct new pledges? The only difference here is that some moron was dumb enough to take pictures of it.

    That being said, a statement was made about international law for the treatment of these people. Are you referring to the Geneva Conventions?

    If so, this agreement applies to enemy combatants of a national army. These people are not of a nation's army. Where do they fall into these constraints? When it comes to the protection units, troops, adn the population of a country, a little lattitude and force is acceptable to many in order to extract information for their protection. Very little lattitude, but if one takes the conventions literally, you cannot even touch a prisoner. Screw that. A good amount of pressure in certain areas of your body, a little upward force on the shoulders from behind, for instance, and a little bit of pain with no permanent injury or damage is a great motivator for speaking.

    Realistically, the Geneva Accords are a an outdated joke and a farce. They were written decades ago when armies fought face to face. I believe in the right thing to do, and everyone has a different standard as to what "right" is, but I really couldn't care less about a few terrorists who were stripped naked and pig piled, or who had to wear a bag over their head.

    Was the bahavior of the troops wrong? Perhaps. Look at the greater picture of what was trying to be accomplished. A little personal embarassment in order to extract information. Perhaps we should just string them all up in a long gallows next time. The soldiers involved all claim that they were ordered to do this to the prisoners. Well, who ordered them? And who ordered the orderers to order this treatment? The buck stops somewhere, and the "I was just following orders" line is bogus. Look at Neuremberg, and Mi Lai, following orders doesn't cut it here. You know right from wrong and one fo the first classes taught in boot camp for me was part of the Geneva Accords, so explain to me what went wrong?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  19. #19
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Jefferson City, TN
    Posts
    4,334

    Default

    What went on in that detention center, other than any accusations of raping with plungers adn the like, is it much different than what goes on every semester on thousands of college campuses across the United States when fraternities induct new pledges? The only difference here is that some moron was dumb enough to take pictures of it.
    No, the difference here is that our President has bellowed the "good vs. evil" diatribe from his high horse over and over as a final justification for this stupid war, after all the other reasons he gave have proven to be farces and outright lies. Comparing this incident to some college fraterity's actions is a very poor comparison.
    Was the bahavior of the troops wrong? Perhaps. Look at the greater picture of what was trying to be accomplished. A little personal embarassment in order to extract information.
    I don't know what story you've been following, but what was done to these prisoners was a hell of a lot more than "personal embarassment."
    Screw that. A good amount of pressure in certain areas of your body, a little upward force on the shoulders from behind, for instance, and a little bit of pain with no permanent injury or damage is a great motivator for speaking.
    Yep; it's called torture. Why not break out the bare electric wires and thumbscrews while you're at it? How pathetic.

  20. #20
    Forum Member StayBack500FT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    2,236

    Default

    College campus...prison...war...it doesn't matter, sexual assault is WRONG.
    May we never forget our fallen, worldwide.

    I.A.C.O.J. Safety/Traffic Control Officer

    E6511

    "Who's Who Among American Teachers" - 2005, 2006 Honoree

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts