Thread: Run Reports

  1. #1
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    Question Run Reports

    I am looking for some info on writing run reports or courtroom preperation. I am having a hard time convincing people that if they do not document everything that happened on scene, an it goes to court, they will be in for a terrible surprise. I was taught in EMT class "If it's not on paper, you didn't do it." Maybe if they hear some "war stories" of reports that have gone to court, they will be more concerned about what they write. Here is an example narrative I have seen some members right:

    "Responded to structure fire. Extinguished and did salvage/overhaul. All units cleared."

    It doesn't mention anything about search/rescue ops, RIT team, size/# of lines laid, water supply, setting up IC, size-up, utility companies notified, etc. If anyone has had a bad experience, please let me know. I don't want specific names, places, or dates. Just the basics of what happened so that maybe I can get them to open there eyes before it happens to one of us.

    Thanks,
    KEEPERTN
    BCVFD

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    Writing reports like that will get you everytime. You should put a brief description of what was done on the scene and were the fire originated at and or cause. When you have to go to court for an insurance dispute you will wish you did.

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    Thumbs up

    You are on the right track, your run reports will need to be in detail
    if there is a loss of life at any scene. and on your fire report any
    thing you do from the time the call comes in till you return to station this is for your depts protection even if it was a false
    call. I have my personnel if there is loss of life to add an extra
    detailed report from that person so if there is ever any cause for the
    insurance company or the court you have it all on paper also keep in
    mind, that your calls are on recored with the agency that called you
    out. and some record all the traffic on the radio. this is also to help you. I hope this info has helped in any way. RAKDX2

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    One of the most interesting things I have seen on a run report was an area titled "Areas of Needed Improvement". Apprently the training officer would review the reports periodically and base some of his training around what he found there. It seemed like a pretty good idea to me.

    Just my thoughts.

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    AFTER WRITTING THE OFFICAL SUMMARY OF WHAT HAPPEND, YOU CAN ALWAYS WRITE DOWN YOUR OWN ACCOUNT OF THE SITUATION IN GREATER DETAIL IF YOU THINK THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE IT WILL GO TO COURT. THATS A GOOD WAY OF HANDLING THINGS ESSPECCIALLY IF YOU THINK IT MAY GO TO COURT IN A YEAR OR TWO FROM THAT DATE. YOU MAY FORGET THINGS WITH YOUR MEMORY A YEAR FROM NOW, BUT YOU WILL RECALL THE SITUATION AFTER REREADING WHAT YOU HAD WRITTEN ABOUT THAT REPORT. JUST MY $.02

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    Try to remember what you did at 11:07 am on June 8th 2004? Can't!what? that was just 30 days ago. Now try to remember what you did june 8th 2002. It's hard. that 's why you need to have some sort of run sheet. I know first had how it feels. The chief asked me about a MVA that happened some 2 1/2 years ago just last month. Once we researched the call from run reports along with pictures it was easy to remember. Our Dept. is now using emergencyreporting.com this is a reporting system that allows you to document everything from people involved, to area of fire, times, units that responded, what personnel. It even has a computer base EMS form for medical calls. Along with many other items for day to day operations. Go to their web site at take alook. This a internet based program so calls can be entered from any computer with web access.

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    I don’t know if putting a box for “areas for improvement” is such a good idea on an official document. I would be worried someone in court would say ‘aha! So you admit you need improvement, where else did your performance lack? Can you prove it didn’t cause this person’s illness/injury/death………….’

    I know it’s a bit extreme but I wouldn’t like to be the one answering the questions. We all know there are enough sleazebag lawyers out there.

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    The National Fire Academy sponsors a course entitled "Courtroom Preparation and Testimony for the First Responder". It is a Direct Delivery Course and is provided all over the country. It is also provided at most State Weekends. It provides all the information you are looking for.

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    BTW, TN State Weekend at the NFA is 11/20-21/04. They are offering this course.

  10. #10
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    Default Details, Details, Details

    arrived on scene at _____ to find______ (statement of 1st arriving or the start of our typical EMS run.

    Fire details
    Dispatched at
    vehicle xxxx enroute @
    vehicle yyyy enroute @
    vehicle zzzz enroute @
    vehicle xxxx on scene@
    vehicle yyyy on scene@
    vehicle zzzz on scene@

    crew of xxxx
    crew of yyyy
    crew of zzzz

    report should include statements like vehicle xxxx arrived on scene first, Officer assessed scene, took initial pictures, and sent crews to exposure A and exposure D (or something like that)

    How much people power, water, foam was used
    which tools were used
    how ventilation was accomplished

    Basically, thoroughly report what you did, whether its a dumpster fire or a train wreck.

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    We use 3 main parts to compile our run reports.

    1st - the IC keeps a report going from the time we hop in the truck till the time we are back in the house and have the truck setup for our next run. This is as detailed as possible. We also keep disposable camera's in every apparatus to take photos of major incidents or things that seem weird.

    2nd - our county ECC records all radio traffic and also transposes it into the CAD system. We are able to print out a timed log of all comunications, responses, dispatches, etc right from their cad system and that is attached to every run report.

    3rd - if it was a major MVA, structure fire, or any call what had a loss of life or major injury, every responder is required to write a personal narrative of all their actions and observations from the time their pager went off until the time we were back at the house ready for the next call.

    And I agree with all who said, "if you don't write it down...you didn't do it!" I was on L/E side for a while and i can tell you it's the same thing there too.


    I hope this helps some.

    --------
    KSFireman82
    FF/FR

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    Write an accurate report, but be careful you don't fall into the trap of writing an accurate but overly detailed report.

    Too many details?

    Sure.

    Hope this example makes sense:

    Case 1:
    "Truck 2 & Engine 3 crews overhauled the bedrooms/living room/kitchen area."

    Case 2:
    "Truck 2 & Engine 3 overhauled fire area."

    Case 1 goes to court for a rekindle:
    "Says here you overhauled the bedrooms, living room, and kitchen areas?"
    "Yes."
    "How come you didn't overhaul the screen porch where the fire rekindled?"
    "Oh, we did -- I just forgot to write that on the report."
    "Huh, are you sure you just forgot to write it, or did you forget to do it? We have your own written record made an hour after the call saying you did the bedrooms, living room, kitchen -- nothing about the screen porch. Did your memory get better after all these years?"

    Case 2:
    "Says here you overhauled, overhauled what?"
    "Well, we would've overhauled the area of the fire, all adjacent areas, and kept opening walls, inspecting behind furnishings, removing anything charred that was practical, soaking down and watching what we couldn't, etc until we had reached completely unburned areas."
    "How do we know you did that? You didn't write down those steps?"
    "Well, overhauling as I described is what we're trained to do -- here's the training reports, attendance, class outlines, IFSTA books they're based on, our own SOPs. What I saw that night was our guys following their training."

    Be consistent when writing a report. If you get inconsistent -- like writing down in detail some of the rooms you overhauled but not others, that could be used against you. "Extinguished & Overhauled" is probably a bit too brief, too.
    IACOJ Canine Officer
    20/50

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    Originally posted by Dalmatian90
    Write an accurate report, but be careful you don't fall into the trap of writing an accurate but overly detailed report.

    Too many details?

    Sure.

    Hope this example makes sense:

    Case 1:
    "Truck 2 & Engine 3 crews overhauled the bedrooms/living room/kitchen area."

    Case 2:
    "Truck 2 & Engine 3 overhauled fire area."

    Case 1 goes to court for a rekindle:
    "Says here you overhauled the bedrooms, living room, and kitchen areas?"
    "Yes."
    "How come you didn't overhaul the screen porch where the fire rekindled?"
    "Oh, we did -- I just forgot to write that on the report."
    "Huh, are you sure you just forgot to write it, or did you forget to do it? We have your own written record made an hour after the call saying you did the bedrooms, living room, kitchen -- nothing about the screen porch. Did your memory get better after all these years?"

    Case 2:
    "Says here you overhauled, overhauled what?"
    "Well, we would've overhauled the area of the fire, all adjacent areas, and kept opening walls, inspecting behind furnishings, removing anything charred that was practical, soaking down and watching what we couldn't, etc until we had reached completely unburned areas."
    "How do we know you did that? You didn't write down those steps?"
    "Well, overhauling as I described is what we're trained to do -- here's the training reports, attendance, class outlines, IFSTA books they're based on, our own SOPs. What I saw that night was our guys following their training."

    Be consistent when writing a report. If you get inconsistent -- like writing down in detail some of the rooms you overhauled but not others, that could be used against you. "Extinguished & Overhauled" is probably a bit too brief, too.
    Never really thought of that, Dal. Thanks

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