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  1. #101
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    This is all real simple. Every brother should look at the overwhelming facts. In all of US history from George Washington until George W. Bush, there has never been more money given to the fire service until George W. Bush's administration.

    Many of you will confuse the facts because of the liberal lies on how this Bush administration is trying to cut funding for the fire service. Those of you that are confused by these lies should really spend the time to see who introduced what and look at voting records.

    Despite the lies and all the rhetoric, history will show that the Bush administration set an all time record of money's and support given to the fire service.

    For this reason and for all of the other domestic, foreign and moral issues I support Bush and encourage all of you to REALLY RESEARCH THE FACTS. If you took the time to study the facts instead of relying on the lies, supporting Bush would be a no brainer.

    I overwhelmingly support all of my brothers in sisters in the fire service despite what views they may have. That is why everyone must do their own research rather than relying on what someone else says is going on. PLEASE DO THAT!
    Last edited by FirefighterGW; 06-28-2004 at 11:45 AM.

  2. #102
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    Originally posted by ChiefReason

    I really have only one strong view in my support of President Bush vs. John Kerry and that is: I support a stronger military defense and a stronger homeland defense. If that can be accomplished through public safety grants, etc., then I am all for it.
    I appreciate your candor. Maybe I'm naive. But I never believed our defense was weak prior to 9/11.

  3. #103
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    Default scfire86

    I would not call you naive. I never once questioned our military power under clinton. In fact I never questioned any of his adventures with our armed forces during his administration. I did disagree with how he employed them once there though. I do feel that some of his "politics" employed while they (US military) were put in harm's way cost some uneeded loss of life on our part, but thats not what this is about. Where I think we were significantly weakened was in our intelligence community. There was a drastic change during the clinton years to go away from HUMINT (human intelligence) and to become almost 100 % reliant on ELINT (electronic). Meaning that we would use satelites, computers and eaves dropping technology rather than using actual people to infiltrate for necessary intel. This is not solved over night either. Employing agents to penetrate our enemy here could take years, if ever at this point. Just one opinion.

  4. #104
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    Default Mikeylikesit, greetings to a fellow Illini.

    You enjoy your collective bargaining rights thanks to the AFFI and a REPUBLICAN governor who had the balls to sign the act.
    What in my posts made you think I didn't know that or appreciate that. My arguement has never been with the AFFI or the locals work on state legislation. I am very proud of the work our local has done for us and what our state people have done to get legislation.

    I find it interesting that you dismiss my idea of not being in the union because you are afraid of being called a "scab". Is that why people pay their dues? Is that why you stayed a member for 26 years? I would hope not.....It seems like you want to underplay the very things you should be doing at your union meetings.Questioning your leadership is your right as a member.If you were able to change peoples opinions then more power to you. Our Local has some serious questions about the plan set forth by the AFFI PAC. I am not entirely comfortable with that myself.
    Ahhh...how dare you question AFFI PAC. Don't you know all that they have done for us? (haha, glad that we can find some common ground)Being called a "scab" was just a minor example I used. I don't know if anyone challeged the State leadership. That's not at all what this argument is about. Why is challenging the International leadership and who they back as President have anything to do with my local or state leadership? This is typical of unions. Any question is a threat to their power somehow. Unions are more against change than the fire departments they work for. Can you imagine your Chiefs acting like this? (well, some do)You are expressing exactly what many of us are saying. As you say, this is still a free country despite what some union leaders think.

    We DO have a democracy in the IAFF not enjoyed by many other unions. You also have a right to NOT be a member and if someone feels that strongly, they should wear their "scab label" proudly".
    Haha, I love it. We have democracy AND I have the right to NOT be a member. Thank you for giving us all example of what I am saying. How would you like it if it was the other way around and most union leaders were pro Republican and the International were all Republicans and backed Bush? I guess you would have the right to leave and wear your "scab label" proudly, too. Don't fall into the trap of changing an arguement of backing Kerry to somehow an arguement for or against unions. You have a right to stay in the union and not to question why we are backing someone who can't take the time to vote for our issues. You have the right to keep your head buried in the sand, fight change, and keep the same old Democrats that SAY they support us, take our money, use us for their political agendas. The guys I work with that are pro-Bush understand that you can also back our legislative efforts. That what really bothers me about the international. What they do creates a conflict. They take something like state funds and use it to transfer their soft money to hard money so that they can give it to Kerry. Oh I know it can go to any candidate. But how dumb to they think we are. (or hope we are)

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Harold the lying weasel

    SCFIRE......

    You say that it is I that doesn't understand how these organizations work. No.....I do understand how this one works under Schaitberger which is one of the main reasons I quit.

    My post was to point out that Harold Schaitberger lied to YOU and every member of the IAFF when in the "International Firefighter" article Why Not Bush, he stated that the IAFF endorsement was done after "EXTENSIVE POLLING" of the membership. You have admitted that you believe this polling was not done. If someone has the proof that Harold was not LYING to the membership about this EXTENSIVE POLLING, then let's see it.

    If your argument is that it is OK for the General President to lie to the membership because "this is the way these organizations work", then you are a sheep, and no amount of factual information would ever lead you to stray from Harold the shepherd.

    RRK
    Last edited by RedRoadKing; 06-28-2004 at 05:18 PM.

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    Is it true the IAFF President makes over $200,000 per year? I saw that in one of the first posts and was curious.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Default Re: Re: Harold the lying weasel

    Originally posted by RedRoadKing
    SCFIRE......
    If your argument is that it is OK for the General President to lie to the membership because "this is the way these organizations work", then you are a sheep, and no amount of factual information would ever lead you to stray from Harold the shepard.

    RRK
    I don't believe that Schaitberger has lied to me. If you do, that is your perogative. If he isn't doing what I believe to be the right thing I will then vote for someone who will.

    I like how you TX boys bring up sheep a lot. Something you want to tell us?

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    Originally posted by Bones42
    Is it true the IAFF President makes over $200,000 per year? I saw that in one of the first posts and was curious.
    Yup!

  9. #109
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    Talking Open your eyes to big picture

    Many of our liberal friends fail to understand.
    The islamists intend that the entire world worship Allah, voluntarily or at the point of a knife. Bush's approach has a much better chance of holding this centuries old movement at bay. MY fear is that if Kerry is elected he will screw it up and you will not have jobs or cities to protect. It more important to me that my family actually have a future.

    Having been to Iraq I really beleive we are only a couple of major attacks from anarchy. Take away our infrastructure and watchpeople revert to scenes from Iraq to fight for food, medicine, water. etc.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Open your eyes to big picture

    Originally posted by gunnyD

    Having been to Iraq I really beleive we are only a couple of major attacks from anarchy. Take away our infrastructure and watchpeople revert to scenes from Iraq to fight for food, medicine, water. etc.
    There are scores of crazy people here in MT with the same thoughts, they scare me.

    I didnt and probly will not read this entire thread, I hate politics and I dont have the time.

    I guess I am voting for Bush. He makes me laugh when he speaks, not because he is trying to be funny, just because he is.

    I wouldnt feel comfortable with Kerry at the wheel while we are at war.

    Its not a good idea to switch horses in the middle of the stream.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Scfire WROTE:

    I don't believe that Schaitberger has lied to me.
    You read in the International Firefighter Schaitberger's remarks that the endorsemment was done after "extensive polling of the membership".
    Then you say that you don't believe that polling was done.

    What am I missing here ??

    Excuse me for being logical....I know it must be a strange concept for you.

    RRK

    BTW......I'm not from Texas, but I am proud of the job of getting out the facts that the Texas firefighters have done.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Re:

    Originally posted by E40FDNYL35


    Nail200 what poll did you take that supports your view?????
    Mr big shot hack union shill. Why are you hiding behind a screen name when you are pimping for your union? Put your name on your posts when you are "working".

  13. #113
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    neiowa Who are you talking to?


    I've noticed a couple of posts saying that Kerry didn't even bother to vote on FF issues. I guess that's better than voting against them like Bush has done.

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    Default Re: Re: Re:

    Originally posted by neiowa

    Mr big shot hack union shill. Why are you hiding behind a screen name when you are pimping for your union? Put your name on your posts when you are "working".
    Jeez. Where the hell did that come from? 40/35 has made it abundantly clear where he is from and what he does. Both for the Department and his Union. Maybe if you took the time to read some of his posts would have seen that. I know 40/35 well enough to call him a friend. And you my friend need a lesson in manners.....You want to disagree with him fine, but he has said nothing different here than many other people, and I don't see you calling them all "hacks" and "shills". And I don't see a lot of other sigatures either. So "LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS!"

    Dave

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    Originally posted by RedRoadKing
    BTW......I'm not from Texas, but I am proud of the job of getting out the facts that the Texas firefighters have done.
    I like TX as well. I really like the monument to the world's most famous *** kicking sitting in the middle of San Antonio.

    Explains a lot about TX logic.

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    Default

    LMAO!!!!

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    Default Re: Texas

    Scfire wrote:

    I like TX as well. I really like the monument to the world's most famous *** kicking sitting in the middle of San Antonio
    Actually, the monument to the Alamo is to memorialize a heroic struggle against overwhelming odds where good men took a stand and died for their cause.

    But I can see, that with your logic and view of the world, that you most likely will view any memorial at the site of the World trade Center as a monument to an *** kicking the United States got from the terrorists.

    I, however, see the World Trade Center as another place where good men, against overwhelming odds, took a stand and died for their cause.

    RRK

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Re: Texas

    Originally posted by RedRoadKing
    Scfire wrote:



    Actually, the monument to the Alamo is to memorialize a heroic struggle against overwhelming odds where good men took a stand and died for their cause.

    But I can see, that with your logic and view of the world, that you most likely will view any memorial at the site of the World trade Center as a monument to an *** kicking the United States got from the terrorists.

    I, however, see the World Trade Center as another place where good men, against overwhelming odds, took a stand and died for their cause.

    RRK
    This is what I refer to as a milk through the nose moment. Except that I was drinking bourbon at the time.

    Next you're going to try and convince us that the war in Iraq is equivalent to the struggle in WW II.

    Keep going RRK. The only thing you're convincing anyone is how far off the reservation you've traveled.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Re: Re:

    Originally posted by neiowa


    Mr big shot hack union shill. Why are you hiding behind a screen name when you are pimping for your union? Put your name on your posts when you are "working".
    What???
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
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    OK ... Good , I'm not the only one who didn't understand it.LOL

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    Default Re: Bourbon Nose

    scfire wrote:

    This is what I refer to as a milk through the nose moment. Except that I was drinking bourbon at the time.
    You are the one who, in trying to be cute, made the inane comment about the Alamo, but it is now quite apparent that your understanding of history and ability to put it in perspective got sprayed out of your nose along with the bourbon.

    I usually try to urge people not to drink and try to drive.
    In your case I urge you not to drink and try to think.

    When you sober up, maybe you will come to the realization that IAFF President Schaitberger lied to all of the members with his assertion that the members were extensively polled.......but I doubt it.

    I am sorry that this thread has degraded to the point where it now is. It had some potential for some real dialogue.

    I am outta here.

    RRK

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    Default Nice to see the Union Blow Hards are still at it.

    Yes, some of us do see this as being similar to World War II

    We lost more lives on 9-11 than we did at Pearl Harbor. Worse yet they we're mostly civilians.

    The enemy is just as deadly and full of hate for Americans they're just harder to locate and identify.

    We feel the same way our Parents and Grandparents felt about WWII. We look for ways to enter the battle and if we can't fight we look for ways to help.

    We ask what we can do for our country not what our country can do for us. NOT PARROT'S AND E35'S CUP OF TEA!

    You see there are a few Union Blowhards trying to offset this discussion. To these guys itís all about the poor me shrinking middle class wa baby syndrome. Born to beg. Entitlement freaks. They embrace their Socialist leaders. They just canít get enough of the tax payerís money and on top of that they want me to thank the IAFF for the benefits and pay I enjoy today. The IAFF didn't do a thing to assist my city department in getting benefits. Our local has worked hard and we would have done that union or no union.

    THE UNION IS THE PERFECT DEMOCRACY!!!!! What a crock of crap. Not one member below the leadership ranks got to vote for the IAFF President.

    NOT ONE LEADER IN THE UNON RAN ON A POLITICAL PLATFORM. Yet they think they have the right to use my money to influence foreign and domestic politics. They donít see anything wrong with the AFL CIO's President, John Sweeney organizing the American Socialist Labor Party.

    FIREFIGHTERS ARE WAKING UP! We see the injustices being perpetrated in the union, we see their end game goals, and we're not going to be led like sheep to slaughter.

    Firefighters like me will spend the rest of our careers educating the firefighters coming up the ranks.

    We'll educate them before they join!

    The union can represent its constituency or they can find another line of work.

    Educated firefighters arenít going to see things the way PARROT AND L35 do.

    By the way guys I answered your questions how about mine.
    What local are you in?
    How long?
    Attend all the meetings?
    Ever held a leadership position?
    Am I to believe that you support Harold Schaitberger, John Sweeney, and John Kerry and I am incorrect for calling you liberal!

    All Iíve heard you do is support your Socialist stances and Socialism in general. Why donít you have the courage to come out and just say what you are. If you want me to show you some Socialist or Communist Party web sites in your town , Iíll help you out. ANYTHING I CAN DO TO HELP A BROTHER!!!!! But then again you probably donít consider me a brother. I QUIT THE UNION. Not enough just to be a firefighter.

  23. #123
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    Default Re: Re: Bourbon Nose

    Originally posted by RedRoadKing
    scfire wrote:
    I am sorry that this thread has degraded to the point where it now is. It had some potential for some real dialogue.

    I am outta here.

    RRK
    You make a personal attack and then get all huffy when someone responds in the same manner.

    How typical.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Default

    Originally posted by CollegeBuff


    Just so I understand your position, are you a one-issue voter? I don't mean to sound judgemental, because I'm really not being so, just want to be clear on it.
    Not at all. But the IAFF makes decisions on candidates based upon a single issue.

    Maybe you missed this part about politics in America. But the way it works is that it is a winner take all system. Unless that is changed so that I get to split my vote according to the amount of issues I support different candidates I will vote with the one who supports most if not all my issues.

    FYI. I have not always voted the party line according to the IAFF or the CPF (CA Prof FF's).
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Default Here a site for you!


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