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    Default Any Dept On Hear Still Use The Smooth Bore Nozzle?

    h
    Last edited by EFIRE15FF7; 06-29-2004 at 12:49 PM.

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    Matt,

    If you do a search about smooth bores you'll see that they aren't a waste of time, and do have good qualities.

    On the left there is a red "box" with 9 links in it like Forums, Forum Profile, etc. Click on Search and enter "Smooth Bore" in as your keywords, look at some of the threads like "High rise pack". Even in South Burlington, one of your neighbors, they have some pretty tall buildings, think about the stand pipe systems.

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    Don't even waste your time responding to this clown. He obviously doesn't know jack about much of anything. Just an uneducated ignorant member of the fire service.

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    Angry Re: Any Dept On Hear Still Use The Smooth Bore Nozzle?

    Originally posted by EFIRE15FF7
    I know we stoped useing it because its a waste of time. The adjustable ones get just a good enough straight stream then a smoooth bore.

    First, I count 7 spelling mistakes right off the bat in your 2 line post. If you are sincere about prompting a discussion, and not simply trolling here, you need put a little more effort into your written communication.

    Second, I sincerely doubt you have done very little, if any real firefighting, let alone having the experience of actually using various nozzles on actual fires. If you had, you certainly wouldn't be posting nonsense like you just did.

    I suspect you are simply regurgitating something you heard somewhere, spoken by someone else with very little to no real world firefighting experience. Besides which, the tone you take is not one which I would deem proper for someone with so little time on the job. You come off as quite foolish.

    Alas, if you are truly curious about smooth bore nozzles, turn on your spellchecker and ask like a gentleman. I'd be happy to educate you, speaking from a ton of personal experience about why smooth bore nozzles are not a "waste of time."

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    Benefit of the doubt here...

    Smoothbore and CAFS is the ultimate fire extinquishing weapon IMO. We have a l.5 smothbore set up on our CAFS unit. It is awsome in its foaming power.

    Let the pressure build up for about 8 seconds and let her rip, the first 5 seconds are pure extasy as the foamy white liquid erupts from my 1.5 inch smoothbore covering everything that is hot within 50 feet and leaving it slopy and wet and covered in slippery white foam...
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    Any Dept On Hear Still Use The Smooth Bore Nozzle?
    Once in a while.

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    Default Re: Any Dept On Hear Still Use The Smooth Bore Nozzle?

    Originally posted by EFIRE15FF7
    get just a good enough straight stream then a smoooth bore.
    A smooth bore doesn't produce a straight stream....it produces a solid stream!!!!
    IACOJ Agitator
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    Haha Adze is being a smartass now isn't he?

    Let the pressure build up for about 8 seconds and let her rip, the first 5 seconds are pure extasy as the foamy white liquid erupts from my 1.5 inch smoothbore covering everything that is hot within 50 feet and leaving it slopy and wet and covered in slippery white foam...
    And Samson, That leaves such a bad picture.

    Now where is TWEJFD when you need em'....*Goes a callin*
    Last edited by 42VTExplorer; 06-29-2004 at 11:37 AM.

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    We cut way back on the use of ours, we only use them on fires now.

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    Originally posted by E229Lt


    Once in a while.
    That's true, Loo...once in a while, as in "Only whenever we go to a fire."

    Don't worry Matty, those TFT Nozzles you've been brainwashed by the sales hungry and ignorant into thinking are so great do have a use... they make excellent door chocks.

    As far as Sampson's experiences using SB w/ CAFS, I don't want to confuse the issue here, because that was not the intent of the orignal post. EFIRE15FF7 was comparing the smiliarity of the appearance of the stream from a combination nozzle to that of a Smoothbore and then proclaiming that therefore "Smooth Bore Nozzles are a waste." He mentions nothing of Gallons Per Minute, Nozzle Reaction force, or Required Pump Discharge Pressures, etc. He cites nothing of his vast practical experiences comparing the knockdown capability experienced from the different type nozzles. He fails to mention all the times he's pushed down a hallway with the line open and felt how much effort is required to operate a line where the nozzle pressure is doubled in order to push the water past a bunch of springs and crap.

    Has anyone gotten the impression yet that I'm sick of "inexperienced experts?"
    Last edited by UsingAllHands; 06-29-2004 at 11:49 AM.

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    Awww, C'mon we can use some more people like Matt around here can't we UsingAllHands? I mean, VERMONTERS that is.

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    Originally posted by 42VTExplorer
    Haha Adze is being a smartass now isn't he?
    Actually, no. There is a big difference between a straight stream and a solid stream. The solid stream is just that: a solid stream of water. A straight stream is broken up by the nozzle into little drops and then reassembled to appear like a solid stream of water, when in fact it contains plenty of air entrained within. In additon to requiring greater nozzle pressures to obtain equal flows, the knockdown capability of the combination nozzle set on straight stream is reduced, simply because much of the water is never delivered to its target (the burning fuel.) Because it is made up of little drops of water, much of this water is turned to steam or carried away by thermal currents before hitting the fire.

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    Originally posted by erics99
    Don't even waste your time responding to this clown. He obviously doesn't know jack about much of anything. Just an uneducated ignorant member of the fire service.
    Ouch! That's going to scar his psyche!

    posted by Samson
    Let the pressure build up for about 8 seconds and let her rip, the first 5 seconds are pure extasy as the foamy white liquid erupts from my 1.5 inch smoothbore covering everything that is hot within 50 feet and leaving it slopy and wet and covered in slippery white foam...
    Are we confusing fire tactics with a porn film? LOL
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Now where is TWEJFD when you need em'....*Goes a callin*
    42VT...We aren't on the same department. I'm with the Junction, he's with the Town.
    TW
    Essex Junction Fire Dept.
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    Oooh. I forgot about the Town / Junction seperation. Whoooops

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    Well I do not feel Welcome here on the site. So I will no longer be posting. Yes I do have very little Experience with firefighting then most of you. As far as the spelling goes. I was on here late at night and did not notice it.

    Thanks

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    Originally posted by CaptainGonzo


    Ouch! That's going to scar his psyche!



    Are we confusing fire tactics with a porn film? LOL
    If that were the case I wouldnt be useing a 1.5 inch smoothbore...

    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

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    A friend of mine on another shift has been researching various nozzles to be placed in the hirise packs. At some point in the past someone decided to put lightweight hose and a plastic nozzle in them so they would be less of a burden. They were obviously only thinking of the many false alarms we get. Our question was always, "would you enter a main floor house fire with that combo of hose and nozzle?" Why do we want to fight fire diferently on the 20th floor than we do on the 1st. It now looks like we will be getting some smooth bore nozzles due to their excellent performance at low pressures that are commonly encountered in these hirises. I'm looking forward to it. It's about time.
    Sometimes, in order to make an operation idiot proof, you must remove the idiot!

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    Originally posted by EFIRE15FF7
    So I will no longer be posting.
    Good idea...Being new on here is just like being a probie in real life. Keep your mouth shut and listen for awhile before you start shooting your mouth off about things you know nothing about.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

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    Originally posted by EFIRE15FF7
    Well I do not feel Welcome here on the site. So I will no longer be posting. Yes I do have very little Experience with firefighting then most of you. As far as the spelling goes. I was on here late at night and did not notice it.

    Thanks
    Well that's one solution, and while I'm certainly not begging you to stay, just remember that nobody said you can't post. Anyone is welcome to ask genuine questions. What grates on my nerves is johnny-know-it-alls.

    And while it's understandable that a late night post might contain a spelling error or two, every third word spelled wrong shows me that you just don't care much. If you're stupid, that's one thing. But obviously, you're educated and capable because your last post was fine, just some slight grammatical irregularities.

    All the best to you.

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    In the originals posters defense .......

    Having recently moved from just down the road from him I can honestly say that he has had little or no exposure to smooth bore nozzles as they are rarely used by any fire department in that part of the state (actually they are used very little statewide). There are no departments that I know of (possible exception is the city of Burlington) that carries them in thier 1 3/4" pre-connected beds and some only carry smooth bores for thier 2 1/2"s in the compartments (most 2 1/2" preconnected lines have fog nozzles as well). I know that while they are in taught in Firefighter 1 classes the instructors rarely talk about the benefits of a smooth bore and push the use of fog nozzlesas that is what they have had real life experience using.
    In that part of the world smooth bore nozzles are viewed very much as a thing of the past.
    Just my thoughts.

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    In additon to requiring greater nozzle pressures to obtain equal flows
    hmmm, better let Akron know about that. Last night, had 1 of their Saberjet's with a twist off adjustable tip. The adjustable tip gave me 160gpm at 90psi on 100' of 1 3/4". Remove the tip and it was a 15/16" smoothbore. At 90psi gave me 166gpm. Yeah, books, calculations, brochures, "war stories", etc. all have their merit...but give me a nozzle on a hose with a flowmeter so I can do actual side by side comparisons....and that is what I will go by. Oh, for those that care...same gpm whether the adjustable was on straight pattern or narrow fog pattern. Both nozzles had same reach in the parking lot. Straight stream on the adjustable had a narrower looking pattern than the smooth slug. Go figure.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Originally posted by Bones42
    hmmm, better let Akron know about that. Last night, had 1 of their Saberjet's with a twist off adjustable tip. The adjustable tip gave me 160gpm at 90psi on 100' of 1 3/4". Remove the tip and it was a 15/16" smoothbore. At 90psi gave me 166gpm. Yeah, books, calculations, brochures, "war stories", etc. all have their merit...but give me a nozzle on a hose with a flowmeter so I can do actual side by side comparisons....and that is what I will go by. Oh, for those that care...same gpm whether the adjustable was on straight pattern or narrow fog pattern. Both nozzles had same reach in the parking lot. Straight stream on the adjustable had a narrower looking pattern than the smooth slug. Go figure.

    Bones, thank you...you're making my point for me!

    You got 166 gpm at 90 psi? Well a 15/16" tip gives approximately 180 gpm at 50 psi. As far as flowmeters, been there and done that. Even low pressure automatics (requiring just 75 psi N.P.) produce substantially greater reaction force (therefore requiring greater effort) than a smoothie. And most places that have automatics use ones that operate at 100 psi N.P.

    The straight stream had a narrower looking pattern because it was over-straight. In other words, the cone of water coming out of the nozzle was impinging upon itself. You should have widened the pattern just a hair, if you insist on attaching a marketing gimmick to the end of your hose. Me? I'm just concerned with flowing the greatest quantity of water possible onto the fire with the least amount of effort needed to operate the nozzle.

    Again, what you are talking about is a parking lot comparison. That's what the sales people who sell garbage like Saberjets will use to dupe you into buying their crap. I have used (unfortunately or fortunately -- however you want to look at it) all kinds of nozzles in many, many fires and I speak from experience when I say that given a choice, I wouldn't take anything into a fire with me but a smoothbore nozzle. Practical application has been my side-by-side comparison.

    Just remember, I'm not trying to sell anything.

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    Originally posted by LaFireEducator
    In the originals posters defense .......

    Having recently moved from just down the road from him I can honestly say that he has had little or no exposure to smooth bore nozzles
    So does he have any buisiness stating that Smooth Bore Nozzles are a waste? Obviously not. I knew he'd never used one because only someone who hasn't would make a statement like that.

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    I'm just concerned with flowing the greatest quantity of water possible onto the fire with the least amount of effort needed to operate the nozzle.

    I'm just concerned about putting the fire out the fastest with the least water.

    In many areas, the typical buildings & tactics used, fog is a friend. Use it push the fire out the vent; use it to steam an unvented area.

    Most single family residences, small multi-families, garages, other small buildings smoothbore, fog doesn't make a difference as long as you use it in a manner compatible with the other tactics your department uses. They probably put out the fire about as quick, with about the same amount of water. I just believe the flexibility of the fog nozzle lets a nozzle team that knows what they're doing put out more fire quicker in our (my department's) typical situations. We've played a bit with CAFS, and next time around the 1st due engine will be CAFS -- and smoothbores -- since it'll take us up another notch in efficiency. Still 100psi on the nozzle, but the hose will weigh next-to-nothing and fire will get knocked even faster.

    We're using them in a situation were searches-ahead-of-hose are almost unheard of; there is tight control of operations (hose placement, venting, etc are under specific orders to coordinate them); buildings are pretty typical and the hoselines/nozzle setups don't change much -- we don't have pump operators trying to figure out whether they're pumping 150' of 1.75" at one fire or 300' of 2.5" up four flights from a pumper located 150' down the road at the hydrant. Pull up, flip the tank suction, pump in gear, rev up to 150psi and adjust as ordered.

    I really don't care what the streams look like -- both a solid bore and a straight stream you could take to a fully involved house fire in my district, shoot it in the front window, and watch them come out the back if you had a straight shot. (Which is where nozzlemanship comes into play so your guys understand that and actually use the water to do some good...)

    Nothing wrong with the Fog/PPV set of tactics, and the tighter command/coordination works better when you have varying quantity, quality, and timing of troops. I admire the Strats & Tacs of departments like FDNY with aggressive searching, and "auto-pilot" activities that pre-assign (drill into your head?) who does what when. And there's many, many skills there that anyone can use. But both schools of tactics are valid, both work well, and you go with what best suits your area.
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