Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 73
  1. #21
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default Re: O, last post...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU


    An international distress signal reserved for sea and land
    purposes.
    At least he agrees, sea and land! Last I checked, we operate on sea and land, right?
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1


  2. #22
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,993

    Default

    LOL.

    I'm such a landlubber, 304. I should've known better about the "head." haha


    Ohhhhhhhhh wellllllll, I just know that I will be communicating "mayday" if i am in trouble, and i am 101% confident that the people around me will immediately understand that I am in danger, even if that's all I am able to communicate.

    AND I'll take off a glove momentarily if I need to do it! haha so, there!

    Someone asked about standards... what about ladder bails, rapelling from windows, etc. Are there standards on these? Not to my knowledge. Is it still important to at least be familiar with this stuff? Yes. Standards aren't everything.
    Last edited by Resq14; 07-05-2004 at 11:49 PM.
    God Bless America!Remember all have given some, but some have given all.
    Google Is Your Friend™Helpful forum tip - a "must see" if you're new here
    Click this to search FH Forums!

  3. #23
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Sneaky, he edited his post, hehehe.
    ______________________________ __________________
    If you are new to posting please CLICK HERE for an essential lesson
    ______________________________ __________________
    A bad day in the boat is better than a good day in the office. And in my case the office is a boat!

    IACOJ Fire Boat 1

  4. #24
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default Re: Re: O, last post...

    Originally posted by Fire304


    At least he agrees, sea and land! Last I checked, we operate on sea and land, right?
    Oh wow, you got me on a typo. It is "air" and "sea", not land.
    I will go back and edit. You must be looking pretty hard to have to resort to that one.

    I am still waiting for the national benchmark
    regarding "mayday" as the standard.

    Lastly and again, it was widely used by the FDNY on 9/11,
    but not adapted as a standard. Give me a standard, please.
    Not articles.

    After 9/11- Were all of us supposted to change everything
    to match the terms used that day?
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 07-06-2004 at 12:06 AM.

  5. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    1,708

    Default

    MAYDAY MAYDAY thread hyjack in progres...



    I was hoping to hear more on the originaly topic then I clicked this one.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  6. #26
    Senior Member UsingAllHands's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    New York, NY: The city so awesome, they named it twice!
    Posts
    135

    Default Re: And again...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    The Dept. of Homeland Security has adapted a standard for
    the nation.
    Who Cares? When the D.H.S. becomes the FAST Team, or searches the floor above the fire, or vents the roof, or pushes the line in with me, I'll pay attention. Until then, I couldn't give a rat's *** what they have to say. Just another bunch of beaurocraps.

    Seriously, Bro, don't you think your Anti-Everything-East-Coast act is getting a little old?

  7. #27
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Post From FireEngineering.com

    MAYDAY AND URGENT MESSAGES

    BY JOHN MILES AND JOHN TOBIN

    Because of the normal volume of traffic on fire department radios during firefighting operations, a department must have a procedure that gives priority to an individual who needs to notify the incident commander (IC) of a life-threatening situation that has happened or is about to happen. In the fire service, we classify these emergency transmissions as "Mayday" or "Urgent" transmissions. Below are some situations where you would use this type of emergency radio message.

    MAYDAY VS. URGENT
    A Mayday transmission is needed if


    *imminent collapse is feared,
    *structural collapse has occurred,
    *a member is unconscious or has suffered a life-threatening injury,
    *an officer discovers that a member under his supervision is missing (if the missing member is an officer, any team member can transmit the message), or
    *a member is trapped or lost.


    An Urgent message is transmitted if


    *a member suffers an injury that requires medical attention but is not life-threatening,
    *the firefighting strategy will switch from interior to exterior attack,
    *a structural condition is discovered that could endanger working firefighters,
    *fire is entering an exposure,
    *a loss of water occurs that will endanger members, or
    Command needs to gain control of the radio channel.


    A Mayday transmission is used only in situations that are life threatening to firefighters. The Urgent message is used for other types of fireground emergencies.

    TRANSMISSION PROCEDURES

    To send a Mayday or an Urgent message, key the mike on your radio and transmit:

    "Mayday, Mayday! [Firefighter's ID and position] with a Mayday!" or "Urgent, Urgent! [Firefighter's ID and position] with an Urgent!"

    This format must be the same for Mayday and Urgent transmissions. The transmissions differ only in the specific type of Mayday or Urgent message transmitted.

    Listen for a response. If none is heard, repeat the message until you are acknowledged.

    Note: If the IC does not respond to the Mayday or Urgent transmission, anyone who hears the message is responsible to relay it to an officer or to the IC directly. Preferably, the message should be delivered face to face, if possible, to keep the radio channel open. If this is not possible, then the person responding to the Mayday transmission should transmit an "Urgent" message to gain control of the radio channel. Do not use "Mayday" to avoid confusion when answering the second transmission.

    IC's RESPONSIBILITY
    On receipt of a Mayday or an Urgent transmission, all radio traffic should stop. The IC should answer the emergency transmission as follows, preferably using a car radio:

    "All units at the scene, stand by for a Mayday/Urgent transmission. Unit with the Mayday/Urgent, go ahead with your message."

    When your Mayday or Urgent has been acknowledged, you must be prepared to transmit the following required vital information to the IC:


    *designated name of the member transmitting the message,
    *member's unit,
    *member's fireground assignment,
    *member's location, and
    *reason for the Mayday or Urgent transmission.


    If the transmission is for a missing or trapped member, provide the member's name, unit, assignment, last known location, and whether the missing member is radio equipped.

    Note: A radio-equipped member can also activate the "Emergency" alarm button on his handheld radio, if available.

    SAMPLE TRANSMISSION
    "Mayday, Mayday! Ladder 1 officer with a Mayday."

    After transmission is received and acknowledged: "Ladder 1 officer is on the floor above the fire, and I have a member missing. The missing member is Firefighter Smith. He was last seen searching apartments on the fourth floor above the fire. He does not have a radio."

    The IC should acknowledge receipt of the message and repeat it back for confirmation.

    When a Mayday is transmitted, it is paramount that the IC take decisive action to control the rescue while continuing to maintain the balance of the fireground operations. He must assign the FAST (RIT) units or rescue units and fill in with additional companies for those units redirected to help with the rescue operations. As is the case with any significant fireground operations, it is important to assign a chief officer to the operation.

    If your department does not have a Mayday or Urgent procedure, use these suggestions to get started. Keep the types of Mayday transmissions to about five. Any more will diminish the importance of the message. Standardize your Mayday and Urgent procedures with the other departments on your radio frequency. If each department has its own procedure, it will lead to confusion during an emergency.

    Set up a committee within your mutual- aid district to address and formulate emergency radio procedures. Keep them simple, and then train your members in their use.

    JOHN MILES is a lieutenant with the Fire Department of New York, assigned to Ladder 35. Previously, he served with Ladder 34 and Engine 82 and as a volunteer firefighter with the River Vale (NJ) Fire Department and the Spring Valley (NY) Fire Department.

    JOHN TOBIN, a 30-year fire service veteran, is assistant chief and training officer with the River Vale (NJ) Fire Department, where he previously served as chief. He has a master's degree in public administration and is a member of the Bergen County (NJ) Fire Academy Advisory Board.

    Fire Engineering April, 2004
    Author(s) : John Miles John Tobin
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  8. #28
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  9. #29
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Default Re: Re: Re: O, last post...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    After 9/11- Were all of us supposted to change everything
    to match the terms used that day?
    Explain to me...why YOU think it can only be used in the air and on the sea? What proof can you provide that, as an international distress signal...it should not be used by firefighters?


    Good grief, what do you suggest? Next time I get in BIG trouble...I'm gonna look for a United States flag...make my way to the window....decide which way is up...and fly the flag as recommended below:

    THE FLAG CODE
    Title 36, U.S.C., Chapter 10
    As amended by P.L. 344, 94th Congress
    Approved July 7, 1976

    § 176. Respect for flag: No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
    (a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.

    There is nothing that says MAYDAY...can NOT be used for other distress purposes...is there?
    ****************************** ****************************** ****

    BURTON A. CLARK, Ed.D., EFO, MIFireE
    Firehouse.Com Contributor


    These must be the most frighting three words that can be heard over the fire ground radio. Everyone who hears the call knows that what was a public emergency, which we the fire department came to solve, has now become an emergency for us. Something has gone wrong and one of our own needs help.

    Every fire department in the country has detailed SOPs explaining who on the fire ground will do what, when a firefighter calls MAYDAY. The RIT is activated, radio channels are changed, additional chiefs and units are dispatched. We have all trained extensively on these procedures. We have developed special techniques on how to get downed firefighters out of tight spaces or up through holes. And we carry an RIT bag on the apparatus.

    All this is important, but it is the easy part of the process. We have almost completely ignored the most important first step, getting the firefighter to recognize they are in trouble and need to get help, to call MAYDAY.

    What mayday decision parameters have we given firefighters? How do we teach the cognitive and affective mayday decision-making process? How do we teach the psychomotor skill to execute the decision?

    We have not answered these questions satisfactorily. Our standards and training are woefully lacking for this critical firefighter personal life saving competency.

    The NFPA 1001 Standards for Fire Fighter Professional Qualifications (1997) does not definitively address the concept of mayday. The word mayday is not used in the standard. There is a mayday inference in the Firefighter I Standard 3-2.3 that reads, "transmit and receive via fire department radio". The firefighter is to know "Departmental radio procedures and etiquette for routine traffic, emergency traffic". The skill is " the ability to operate radio equipment and distinguish between routine and emergency traffic" (p.1001-1).

    Mayday is again alluded to in Standard 3-3.4. It reads, "Exit a hazardous area as a team"; knowledge "…elements that create or indicate a hazard"; skill "… evaluate area for hazard" (p. 1001-7).

    There is more verbiage on auto extraction then mayday in the standard. In Firefighter II the only standard that comes close to mayday is 4-2.3. It reads, “communicate the need for team assistance”; knowledge “…fire department radio communications procedures”; skill “ the ability to operate fire department communications equipment.” This standard seems to be about routine assistance not mayday conditions.

    The Firefighter’s Handbook (2000), chapter 23, has a section titled “Firefighter’s Emergencies”. The opening paragraph reads in part, “To help understand the actions to be taken during an actual or potential firefighter emergency, the firefighter must study procedures for rapid escape and declaring a mayday for lost or trapped situations” (p. 690). Under entrapments it reads, “The first step a firefighter should take in an entrapment is to get assistance. Activation of a PASS device is warranted and the declaration of a “mayday” should be made over the radio” (p. 692). Under the heading of “Lost firefighter” it reads, “We cannot overemphasize that a fighter or team lost in an IDLH atmosphere is in fact experiencing a firefighter emergency” (p. 692). "First, the firefighter or team must report the fact they are lost. This is also a mayday situation and should be transmitted as such over the radio” (p. 693).

    Essentials of Fire Fighting (1998) does not refer to the word mayday. In the “Rescue and Extrication” chapter there is a section titled “Trapped or Disoriented Firefighters”. In regard to disoriented firefighters it states, “If they are not having any success finding their way out, they should find a place of relative safety and activate their PASS devices” (p. 181).

    For trapped firefighters it states, “These firefighters should immediately activate their PASS devices. If either trapped or disoriented firefighters have radios, they should try to make radio contact as quickly as possible with other personnel on the emergency scene” (p. 182). Our mayday standards and training doctrine clearly indicates that we have not researched the concept of a firefighter-calling mayday scientifically.

    Maybe it's time for a National distress standard? (I vote for Mayday)
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    187

    Default Mayday Works for me

    The proper sea faring term for latrine is a “head”. I always thought the International Distress term was “SOS” or Dit-Dit-Dit, Da-Da-Da, Dit-Dit-Dit In Morse Code. This goes all the way back to the days of sailing vessels. Mayday! Followed by location and what’s wrong makes a whole bunch more sense then "Everyone, Hum Everyone" "Please clear the Airwaves so our injured can ask us properly for Help"!........Or my favorite 10-2, 10-4 We have One Brown Cow, With only 3 on the floor.
    “Just when you think something is made to be Idiot Proof. They go a head and make a better Idiot”

  11. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,765

    Default

    NJFFSA16, you beat me to the punch.
    For me it was the mid 80's that I was taught how to use MAYDAY. Ever since, that is what has been used by the departments by me. It was FDNY guys who taught it to us.
    I don't know who coined it first but it has been around a long time before 9/11 and I think it is a good term that conveys the correct intent.

  12. #32
    Forum Member FiftyOnePride's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    471

    Default

    If it meant life or death, I would go with the gloves off if I had to, but I would def. try to calm myself down, if not already, and try to comm. out my distress signal with my gloves on.

    The answer, different radio configs., thinner but equally protective gloves, whatever, would work for me, I would like to see how the glove end of things spans out. Anyways…

    On to the hijacked subject thread, I do not think it is about standards, I think one should be made however. I think it is about what people recognize, I know that all of my depts. FF's and all in the county clearly recognize MAYDAY as their depts. standard. I know, it is not about a whole bunch of people in my area who endorse it. But I think a good majority of the Fire Service recognizes MAYDAY as the unset standard. And if calling a MAYDAY is going to be recognized by everyone and not second guessed and save a FF's life, then by all means let’s call a MAYDAY. Plus, that was being taught and used way before 9/11.

    Besides, we are missing the big picture, forget standards and all that bs, it is what gets the FAST, RIT, FART team into action and saving our own that matters, regardless of choice of words.

    Edited to add a portion about gloves to my first paragraph.
    Last edited by FiftyOnePride; 07-06-2004 at 08:16 AM.
    JLS
    MFC
    51 Pride - R.I.P. Sandy
    Alarm 200644004, I won't ever forget.


    Remember you only have 1*.

    IACOJ

  13. #33
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    235

    Default Re: Me...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    1. I would tell the instructor to "Bite me." I would
    take my glove off to get the radio transmission out.
    And in most academies, you would spend the next week discovering what hell truly is.

    I agree that there are times when it is entirely appropriate to remove your gloves to carry out a task. A training exercise is not one of these. Training scenarios provide the opportunity to practice these tasks with gloves on so that you can become proficient. That is why we have firefighters practice tying knots blindfolded and with gloves on. The untrained firefighter will find it easier to perform such tasks without gloves. I can honestly say that those who have completed our classes find it quicker and easier to do them without taking their gloves off. There are always exceptions, but if you don't practice, you'll never become proficient.

  14. #34
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,556

    Default

    Posted by by buddy "Bou"

    The Dept. of Homeland Security has adapted a standard for
    the nation. It clearly says "mayday" is reserved for air
    and sea terms.
    This is the same organization that can't seem to remove it's cranium from it's rectum.

    Posted by Using All Hands
    Who Cares? When the D.H.S. becomes the FAST Team, or searches the floor above the fire, or vents the roof, or pushes the line in with me, I'll pay attention. Until then, I couldn't give a rat's *** what they have to say. Just another bunch of beaurocraps.
    Amen... they have never been in a fire, and are probably getting their information from the "if you throw a book at it, the fire will go out" crowd.

    Emergency traffic? That is the rigs leaving the "casa del fuego"

    Urgent? That's when my morning coffee kicks in and I have to use the bathroom/head/latrine/outhouse/port-a potty!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  15. #35
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default Re: Re: And again...

    Originally posted by UsingAllHands


    Who Cares? When the D.H.S. becomes the FAST Team, or searches the floor above the fire, or vents the roof, or pushes the line in with me, I'll pay attention. Until then, I couldn't give a rat's *** what they have to say. Just another bunch of beaurocraps.

    Seriously, Bro, don't you think your Anti-Everything-East-Coast act is getting a little old?
    #1. It is a standard in my FD and state and no one else here
    has been able to supply one yet other than articles.

    #2. I am not "anti-everything-east-coast" as you stated. In
    my 15 years in the fire service, I just refuse to be so
    "old skool". Plus I am care ful which bandwagon I jump on
    or which FD to worship.

    Not lets all be cool. If you want to fight, there is a good
    "paid vs. volly" thread currently going on. Trt that one...Bou

  16. #36
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Lusby, MD
    Posts
    1,028

    Default

    Let me get this straight. If I'm down, and get on the radio and say "MAYDAY,MAYDAY,MAYDAY, FIREFIGHTER DOWN"; nobody (at least not BOU) is coming after me because I'm not using the proper terminology according to some piece of paper.

    I'm glad that nobody around here gets so tied up in what some paper says, but is concerned with what works.

  17. #37
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default So...

    Originally posted by Eng34FF
    Let me get this straight. If I'm down, and get on the radio and say "MAYDAY,MAYDAY,MAYDAY, FIREFIGHTER DOWN"; nobody (at least not BOU) is coming after me because I'm not using the proper terminology according to some piece of paper.

    I'm glad that nobody around here gets so tied up in what some paper says, but is concerned with what works.
    #1. I probably would come help you. (just kidding)

    #2. It is not just because of some paper. It is crossing
    terms with other specific, distinct areas. (sea and air)
    It is called "clear text". Again, mayday can sound like
    many other words that can be used.

    "EMERGENCY TRAFFIC" is very clear and to the point.

    Let it go.

  18. #38
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Lusby, MD
    Posts
    1,028

    Default

    #2. It is not just because of some paper. It is crossing
    terms with other specific, distinct areas. (sea and air)
    It is called "clear text". Again, mayday can sound like
    many other words that can be used.

    "EMERGENCY TRAFFIC" is very clear and to the point.

    Let it go.
    Bou

    Just one comment, and then I will let it go. I live in an area surrounded by water where the major employer is a Naval Air Station. Many firefighters are also pilots, aircrew, boaters or watermen. MAYDAY is considered clear text around here. If I'm down, MAYDAY is what comes to my mind first, not "EMERGENCY TRAFFIC". If it works, I'll use it.

    I think this is a little like expecting everybody to call a tanker a tender or vice-versa

  19. #39
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,570

    Default

    Damn! Again I find I'm doing things wrong. Didn't know that 9/11 was the basis for my SOP's/SOG's (which were written years before then). My department SOP uses both Emergency Traffic and Mayday. Emergency Traffic is used for non-FF down messages, like "the roof is collapsing". Something we want everyone to hear immediately. Mayday is used for FF down. Oh well, guess we're wrong again. Haven't yet had my Coast Guard station or the somewhat nearby Naval Base (which has no boats or water?) complain.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  20. #40
    Forum Member backdraft663's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Cincinnati Ohio Area
    Posts
    865

    Default

    Here were being tought to use MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY.

    I could really care less what we say actually, all that matters is that there is a Firefighter down and we need to save him.
    Ryan

    I.A.C.O.J. Probie

    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing which you think you cannot do. -Eleanor Roosevelt

    Lets not forget those lost on 9-11-01

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts