Thread: Gun Control

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    Default Gun Control

    Whether you agree or not, it's an interesting lesson in history. Something to think about...The guy on the street first?
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    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
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    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
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    It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

    The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 32 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!) In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!) While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

    There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns."
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    The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
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    You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear our president, governors or other politicians disseminating this information.
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    Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
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    Take note, my fellow Americans.....before it's too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson. With guns, we are citizens. Without them, we are subjects.
    SB (Local 1355 retired)

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    That reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons where Lisa fights for control after seeing the head stone of a 16-year-old boy who was shot to death and his head stone said "I dream of a world with out guns"...and then once all the guns were destroyed in Sprinfield the dead kid and a bunch of other dead guys came back from the dead with thier guns and started shooting people. They were waiting for everyone to be with out guns and defensless.

    Anyway...I haven't really figured out where I stand on gun control yet...but where did you get all of that information?

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    Originally posted by ILuvmyFF10
    and then once all the guns were destroyed in Sprinfield the dead kid and a bunch of other dead guys came back from the dead with thier guns and started shooting people
    Gotta hate when that happens!
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    it was an email i recieved from an old army buddy.. i checked it out with truth or fiction but nothing on it.. SB
    SB (Local 1355 retired)

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    Actually crime in Great Britain, New Zealand, Canada, and Australia have begun escalating rapidly ever since heavy firearms restrictions have been placed over the last 10 - 20 years in those countries. The thugs figure that if the people don't have guns then they are easier targets.

    In World War II when Hitler invaded the Laetz ghettos in Warsaw, Poland several regiments (a few thousand troops) were held off by a resistance movenment that had stockpiled firearms. The Germans were just shot from a variety of locations and cordoned off the area but for several weeks they were unable to enter the Ghettos because of an armed populace.

    The Soviet Union banned personal ownership of many firearms adn millions did die in the purges. The same with many Communisit and Socialist nations. Most of Europe makes it illegal to own personal weapons with the exception of rifles and shotguns adn even those are heavily licensed.

    Gun control does not work:

    In Boston, MA, New York, NY, LA, DC, Baltimore, and numerous other cities it is darned near impossible to obtain a permit to own a handgun, let alone a rifle or shotgun, and these cities have an extremely high per capita murder rate - especially by firearms. Please, someone explain that one to me.

    When one gives up their right of personal defense against a tyrant, invader, or threat, they become a subject of the government, not a citizen. There is a difference.
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    Originally posted by DaSharkie
    In Boston, MA, New York, NY, LA, DC, Baltimore, and numerous other cities it is darned near impossible to obtain a permit to own a handgun, let alone a rifle or shotgun, and these cities have an extremely high per capita murder rate - especially by firearms. Please, someone explain that one to me.
    It's quite simple. Criminals don't pay attention to gun laws. And those cities, with a wealth of population....have large numbers of criminals...who get their guns illegaly. Deaths by gunshot occur in the process of drug deals, robberies etc., by these same individuals.

    The lawmakers consistently fail to take this into consideration when drafting gun control laws. The criminals have better weapons than the typical law enforcement officers on the street....
    Last edited by NJFFSA16; 07-09-2004 at 09:50 AM.
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    As far as gun control and crime rates are concerned, correlation does not necessarily translate to causation. To accurately assess any connection between the data, you must examine the crime trends prior to the advent gun control, as well as compare the crime rates of cities with and without these laws, before drawing such bold conclusions as gun control increases crime. The previous examples provide, at best, a rudimentary and incomplete analysis of the issue.
    As for the historical references, do you think the Jews would have stood a chance against the Nazis even if they had been armed to the teeth? After subjugating the Jews of Germany, the Nazis went on to defeat various foreign powers (Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, etc) despite the full military armament of these adversaries. It might have taken the Nazis a few more days to conquer the Jews, but either way, they would have ended up in the concentration camps.

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    if i was going down it would still give me a little pleasure to take a couple down with me..
    SB (Local 1355 retired)

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    The previous examples provide, at best, a rudimentary and incomplete analysis of the issue.
    You base THIS statement on what? Just the fact that the data may come from sources you don't agree with, ie, the NRA? If you read StoveBolts post, he does include the historical data and trends prior to the law.


    As for the historical references, do you think the Jews would have stood a chance against the Nazis even if they had been armed to the teeth? After subjugating the Jews of Germany, the Nazis went on to defeat various foreign powers (Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, etc) despite the full military armament of these adversaries.
    The Jewish people not various forign powers, but a people residing in the country of hate. Though they did manage to form a sucessful resistance movement causing the German Nazis all kind of problems. As did the the 3 countries you mentioned. An armend populist is much different than an armed government.
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    I believe we have a prime example about what an armed populace can do to what they perceive as an invading force. Look at Iraq. We have left these people with inalienable right of self defese, along with undesired consequences of such, so yes I do believe that if the populace of these countries were allowed to be owners of individual firearms that the Germans and Italians would have been much more slow in their overpowering of the nations that they invaded (with the possible exception of France which just raised their arms anyway )

    It is not necessarily overall crime rates that have increased but violent crimes that include murder, armed robbery, assault and battery, rape, etc that have seen the use of firearms in their commission excalate tremendously to the point that many municipalities in England have resorted to having more officers carry weapons or have access to them. I probably should have worded that correctly to allow for any inferences or misinterpretations.

    Statistics and figures show that every state in the United states that has a concealed carry law for firearms available on the books for its citizenry to use (I believe it is something like 37 states or so) has a lower violent crime rate overall when compared with those states that do not have the laws on the books. In many of those states that have enacted a concealed carry law in recent years, the violent crime rate dropped considerably when compared to the years prior. Am I naive enough to think that this is due only to concealed carry laws? No, but I do feel that it has been a tremendous aid in reducing that crime.

    As for the snopes link...

    Many points are validly made, but an increase in crime rates is still an increase in crime.

    There is also the mention of the restriction in ownership of semi-automatic weapons - well this includes all manner of pistols from Sig Sauer, to a 1911-A1, Beretta pistol, Glock, magazine or strip fed rifles (i.e. an old M-1 Garand, M-14, etc.), and the greatly ballyhooed "Assault weapons" which are listed in teh Brady gun ban that will expire this Fall.

    Speaking of the Brady Bill, the FBI crime numbers show that these "prolific" weapons are used in less than 1% of firearms related crimes. To ban a weapon because of "looks," or the fact that it has a bayonet mount (when was the last time you ever heard, much less saw a gangbanger use a freaking bayonet or AR-15? - they are just too large and bulky) is rediculous. The crime reports also show no change in the crimes, no effect of the ban, or the ban on
    large capacity magazines - becasue all it did was make people pay more for a 12 round magaine than they wanted to to buy it legally. The law has been proven to be a useless law and the politicians know it, but are afraid to admit their mistake and let it fade into history.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Default Mom always said...

    "DONT PLAY WITH GUNS IN THE HOUSE"
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    Default Re: Mom always said...

    Originally posted by MIKEYLIKESIT
    "DONT PLAY WITH GUNS IN THE HOUSE"
    But if we go outside the black helicopters flown by the New World Order will see us and we will be shipped to an American Concentration Camp and tortured by the servants of the Antichrist.

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    Default Crime in Canada

    Crime statistics (statisics Canada website)
    2002

    Canada's police-reported crime rate remained virtually unchanged in 2002 (-0.6%). The national crime rate, which has been on a downward trend for more than a decade, is now 27% below its peak in 1991. While rates for most crimes remained unchanged or dropped in 2002, increases were seen in homicides, fraud/counterfeiting, drug offences and prostitution.

    In total, police reported 2.4 million Criminal Code offences, excluding traffic. Of these, 13% were violent crimes, 52% were property crimes and the remaining 35% were "other" offences such as mischief and disturbing the peace. Rates declined for violent crime and youth crime in 2002, while property crime was virtually unchanged.

    There were 582 homicides in 2002, 29 more than the previous year. The increase was driven by a large increase in British Columbia, up from 84 homicides in 2001 to 126 in 2002. Part of this increase was associated with the Missing Women's Task Force investigation in Port Coquitlam, B.C. which resulted in 15 homicides from previous years being reported by police in 2002.

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    I fullly support right to carry laws. I'm looking for MI's crime stats since we introduced right to carry. You gotta think a criminal is gonna think before robbing someone. Does this guy have a bigger gun than me? I'm real afraid our lib governor will try to get it repealed.
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    CRIME IN CANADA

    SHUSWAP, you are forgetting the biggest crime of all resulting fron the Federal Gun Registry. The $2 Billion and growing that the Liberal Government stole from the pockets of Canadians to create the registry.

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    Wasn't that registry only supposed to cost a few million bucks when it all started? Yup it sure does work doesn't it?
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

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    Default Statistics and violent crime

    I found most of the information that the snopes.com provided was not available. An interesting article that did come up when clicked on was the following:

    http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi151.html

    Trends & Issues in Crime and Criminal Justice
    No. 151: The licensing and registration status of firearms used in homicide

    "The licensing and registration status of offenders and firearms used in homicide are examined using data held as part of the National Homicide Monitoring Program. The findings of the report show that since 1997 licensed firearm owners have not been responsible for over 90 per cent of firearm related homicides. Most firearms used to commit homicide were not registered and their owners not licensed."

    Gun control does not work to limit or reduce violent crime, specifically homicide. Therefore ones' second amendment right to bear arms shouldn't be limited or hindered under the guise of providing a safer city/state/nation.

    From a computer and statistical analyst from Philadelphia: "The only statistically relevant factor that can be used to predict crime in any society is the percentage of juvenile and young males of any population. And the relationship is direct; as this percentage goes up then so does crime."

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    Ted Kennedy has killed more people with an Oldsmobile than 99.99% of gun owners have killed with guns.

    The idea that by removing guns from the citizenry, violence goes down does not have any basis in fact. Wherever citizens are disarmed, crime goes up.

    Just as an aside - many of the leftist politians from the the Democratic party have guns, or private Security.

    Feinstien (FineSwine?) has an almost impossible for the peons to get concealed carry permit, but does not want the "masses" to own guns. I think it speaks volumes that this is a do what we say, not what we do example from these vermin.

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    Default Gun control does not mean less violent crime

    Additional evidence that gun control does not mean less violent crime is addressed in Mr. John R. Lott, Jr., book "More Guns, Less Crime".

    In the introduction, he provides compelling information regarding "hot burglaries" in the US and compares them to "hot burglaries" in England and Canada. A "hot burglary" is defined as a criminal entering a home with someone home as opposed to entering when one is not at home.

    In Canada and Britian, where there are stringent gun control laws, nearly 50% of all burlaries are "hot burglaries", as compared to the US with just over 13%.

    "Gun control does not work to limit or reduce violent crime, specifically homicide. Therefore ones' second amendment right to bear arms shouldn't be limited or hindered under the guise of providing a safer city/state/nation."

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