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    Default Hardinsburg KY Fire Department Destroyed In Fire

    Hello group.....

    It is sad to announce at around 18:00 hours on 7/8/2004 that our City Firehouse caught on fire and was damaged so bad beyond repair... All of our trucks was saved. The telesquirt suffered heat damage and was taken out of service and not be used again. The station has suffered Severe to Very Severe Damage and can not be used anymore. Just thought would post this.. It has been on NEWS MEDIA so Firehouse.com should get it to post on their newspage...

    John Betner
    Hardinsburg City Fire 1420
    Custer Fire 1615

    Thank You for everything u do

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    Sorry to hear that. Thank God no one was injured or killed. Are there mutual aid agreements in place for your community?

    Stay safe..

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    Default Mutual Aid Agreement

    Yes we have mutual aid agreements with every fire department in Breckinridge County as well as mutual aid agreements with surrounding counties fire departments.... Everything should be OK just will take take to get everything back to normal

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    Smoke detectors?
    Monitored alarm system?
    Sprinklers?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Originally posted by Bones42
    Smoke detectors?
    Monitored alarm system?
    Sprinklers?
    Arrogant?
    Insensitive?
    Judgemental?

    Their station burns and this is what you offer?

    Not everybody has the cabbage for all the things you mention. You bet they need them, but when the choice is between PPE and AFA, PPE will win.


    Custer, very sorry about your bad break. Best wishes from the far end of the state, and PM me if you have non-insured needs. We have a couple of 2004 FEMA grants pending in the county, as well as one from 2003, so I think we could make some good connections for you.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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    Default Hardinsburg KY FD Destroyed By Fire

    No Bones we didn't have any of them security things in our firehouse. All of our gear was destroyed but luckily all of our trucks was saved and still inservice expect the telesquirt. EastKYFF thank you for your kind offering comment I'll ask the chief if you can be of any assistance and if so i will let you know... Right now like I said all of our trucks are still operable except the squirt truck but we are borrowing gear from other Fire Departments and we have an automatic 2nd alarm if anything big rolls around.... Are feelings are hurt about it but we know we done everything we could have done.

    John Betner
    Hardinsburg Fire 1420
    Custer Fire 1615

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    Originally posted by EastKyFF


    Arrogant?
    Insensitive?
    Judgemental?

    Their station burns and this is what you offer?

    Not everybody has the cabbage for all the things you mention. You bet they need them, but when the choice is between PPE and AFA, PPE will win.


    Custer, very sorry about your bad break. Best wishes from the far end of the state, and PM me if you have non-insured needs. We have a couple of 2004 FEMA grants pending in the county, as well as one from 2003, so I think we could make some good connections for you.
    Speaking of culture changes...

    Bones is not wrong. He was not being judgemental but was asking about details of the story that if he hadn't asked, I would have.

    The culture change is that if you park all of your town's fire suppression resources under one roof, it doesn't matter how much it is worth, it is all of your town's fire service resources. The taxpayers are owed the security of having a protected facility.

    An alarm systemj costs peanuts compared to the total inventory of fire suppression equipment.

    "Sorry Mr. and Mrs. Homeowner. Yup, we break your chops about having a working smoke detector. We talk at you about having residential sprinkler systems. We preach fire safety and fire protection until you are sick of hearing it. But we did not think it was important to protect the entire stock of fire suppression equipment that this town owns with any of the things we try to get you to buy."

    There's a hell of a message.

    BTW, what started the fire?

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    Practice what ye preach?

    Glad no one was hurt.
    I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Here are some pictures of the fire: Apparently very FEW people in this forum that have replied ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT IT BEING DESTROYED BUT about some damn sprinklers. I agree with East KY FF completely unlike other people in the room that talks about nothing but a ADT alarm system or sprinklers.

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    Here are some pictures of the fire: Apparently very FEW people in this forum that have replied ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT IT BEING DESTROYED BUT about some damn sprinklers. I agree with East KY FF completely unlike other people in the room that talks about nothing but a ADT alarm system or sprinklers.

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    Originally posted by CusterFireman
    Here are some pictures of the fire: Apparently very FEW people in this forum that have replied ACTUALLY CARES ABOUT IT BEING DESTROYED BUT about some damn sprinklers. I agree with East KY FF completely unlike other people in the room that talks about nothing but a ADT alarm system or sprinklers.
    Whoa, Custer, you are wrong dude. We ALL care about the station being destroyed. I am very glad no one was hurt. You are very fortunate that you were able to salvage your apparatus. That is the hardest part to replace.

    But I would be much more sympathetic if there wasn't a long history of this happening before. Search these forums for this topic. We have discussed this many times.

    In another thread there is a discussion about culture change in the fire service. Some of the items being discussed are how we never learn from history. We also place a poor emphasis on fire prevention. How many more fire stations are going to burn to the ground before the fire service stops playing Russian Roulette with their resources? This is not an opinion based upon a judgemental attitude. This is an opinion based upon a passionate desire that the fire service wake up and stop pretending that it is immune to the very same hazards that we preach to the public about every day.

    Could you please post some info on the cause of the fire?

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    CusterFireman...

    My condolences on the loss of your fire station.

    While the installation of a fire alarm system may be a valid topic, I feel that bringing it up here is the same as the lady who asked me at the funeral of my brother, who committed suicide, where he shot himself. Timing is everything and right now while your department is hurting is not the right time. Perhaps a better way of handling it would have been to say that installing alarms and sprinklers in your new station would prevent this from happening again.

    I hope this all works out for you and your department.

    FyredUp

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    John, sorry to hear about your station. There was a small story on it on the news here in central KY. I am in a small VFD in a rural area in central KY- we don't have much but we'll share what we have. If we can help with turnout gear, post here and I'll call to see what we can do. We have a few extra sets of used gear. Doc

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    The team from Frankfort came down and clearly without a doubt showed where and how the trouble started..... It was an old wire that had shorted out in the attic part of the fire department. I think there are a couple of Large Departments here local that will be helping us out try to get back better on your feet. The FD is being housed at the City Of Hardinsburg Public Works close to the other building. I really appreciate the ones in here that offered assistane in anyway and your offer will never be forgotten. I will open a Geocities Site very soon within the next couple of days that has pictures of this fire. When I get the link and it made I will post it for all readers in the room.... Once again Thank You and God Bless

    John Betner
    Hardinsburg Fire 1420
    Custer Fire 1615

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    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI


    Speaking of culture changes...

    Bones is not wrong. He was not being judgemental but was asking about details of the story that if he hadn't asked, I would have.


    They were legitimate questions, George, but the truncated form in which he asked them came off as very flippant. Not "Was the station equipped with sprinklers?" but just "Sprinklers?" Coming off as being short with people is a hazard of online communication, but the post was so brief that it was hard not to think it was accusatory.

    The needed cultural changes of the American fire service are an issue separate from the specifics of one station burning down. Let's not kick Hardinsburg while they're down.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


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    Originally posted by EastKyFF



    They were legitimate questions, George, but the truncated form in which he asked them came off as very flippant. Not "Was the station equipped with sprinklers?" but just "Sprinklers?" Coming off as being short with people is a hazard of online communication, but the post was so brief that it was hard not to think it was accusatory.

    The needed cultural changes of the American fire service are an issue separate from the specifics of one station burning down. Let's not kick Hardinsburg while they're down.
    I'm not kicking anyone dept. ... I am kicking the entire US fire service. We are at friggin' war with people who have clearly demonstrated that they are not afraid to try to kill FF at home. Yet, we treat the front line equipment that is designed to safe our lives as though the terrorists have announced that we are untouchable.

    Does it really matter if there is an electrical fire in the attic or a car bomb outside? The result in an unprotected station is still the same. It has the same impact on the community. Imagine if the bad guys could find a way (not too hard in this day and age) to negate the fire service in a large area. You negate the ability to rapidly respond to help save lives and stop the damage. That will increase the "success" of the attack.

    In the long run, money spent to harden the fire house as a target is money very well spent if there is an attack. And remember boys and girls, international terrorists are only a small piece of the terrorism puzzle. There are domestic terrorists (anti-abortion peoplr come to mind) who have also demonstrated they are not shy about killing us.

    Hardinsburg is a tiny manifestation of a big disease.

    I can't speak for Bones, but I would imagine the style of his post was due to this being, what, about the bazillionth time we have had this discussion?

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    So, those that are upset at my questions...are your stations safer? Can't afford a sprinkler system, how about building your own? Some pipe and a small water tank on top of the building is better than nothing.

    Yes, I am sorry for their loss. And I wish them a speedy recovery. And I am very happy no one was injured.

    I am also pretty upset that ANOTHER fire department did not protect themselves as they ask others to protect themselves.

    Price of a small, minor, better than nothing, sprinkler system - <$1000
    Price of all your equipment gone.....


    and you will find me asking these questions anytime I see a firehouse burned. Count on it.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Bones42...

    Start a seperate thread on fire station safety, including alarms, sprinklers, standpipes, and anything else you want. But not in the same thread where a guy announces the loss of his fire station.

    I would have reacted the same way he did, except perhaps not so politely.

    It's great to talk of all the things we can do in the fire service. It is quite another in small town America to sometimes get enough funding to keep the trucks running. Oh, I know, we can shut down all the FD's that their communities don't fund adequately...but who else is going to do it? Or aren't we supposed to care?

    Should every fire station, staffed or unstaffed, have sprinklers and alarms systems that send to remote alerting stations? Of course they should. But every fire department should also have state of the art turn-outs and SCBA. Every fire department should also have decent, functional, relieable fire apparatus. Every fire department should also have ________________(fill in the blank). But we don't. Sometimes you sacrifice one thing to do another and that is how you are forced to operate. It's easy to point fingers, less easy to have solutions.

    FyredUp
    Last edited by FyredUp; 07-15-2004 at 01:54 PM.

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    Originally posted by FyredUp
    Bones42...

    Start a seperate thread on fire station safety, including alarms, sprinklers, standpipes, and anything else you want. But not in the same thread where a guy announces the loss of his fire station.

    I would have reacted the same way he did, except perhaps not so politely.

    It's great to talk of all the things we can do in the fire service. It is quite another in small town America to sometimes get enough funding to keep the trucks running. Oh, I know, we can shut down all the FD's that their communities don't fund adequately...but who else is going to do it? Or aren't we supposed to care?

    Should every fire station, staffed or unstaffed, have sprinklers and alarms systems that send to remote alerting stations? Of course they should. But every fire department should also have state of the art turn-outs and SCBA. Every fire department should also have decent, functional, relieable fire apparatus. Every fire department should also have ________________(fill in the blank). But we don't. Sometimes you sacrifice one thing to do another and that is how you are forced to operate. It's easy to point fingers, less easy to have solutions.

    FyredUp
    Are you through with your tantrum?

    I could agree with you if every fire department out there with an inadequately protected station was in desperate financial straits. But that would be naive or intellectually dishonest. We bot hknow that in many, many FD's, especially VFD's, that this is a case of misplaced priorities.

    I am talking about a FD who would order an apparatus with $5000 worth of gold leaf, but would not put a sprinkler system in. I am talking about a FD who thinks nothing of putting out $100 worth of food fpr a monthly meeting, but won't pay a monthly subscription fee for an alarm system. I am talking about a FD who would spend thoudands extra on custom apparatus instead pf protecting their station. I am talking about FD's who think it's a good thing to spend a ton opn taking their FD to a convention for a weekend of drunkeness and not spend a nickel on protecting their assets. Do not waste my time or yours tellin gme that this doesn't happen in the majority of cases.

    Let me say AGAIN that I am not talking about all FD's but a helliva of lot of FD's.

    WE OWE IT TO THE CITIZENS TO PROTECT THE ASSETS THAT ARE USED TO PROTECT THEM. THEY OWE IT TO US TO LET US PROTECT THOSE ASSETS.

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    I did a quick search on the forums...looked for sprinklers and fire and station. found 2 pages of results.

    Here are some links to other threads that were started about this topic....notice the low amount of reads and replies. They aren't great threads with lots of outstanding insight, just a few common sense ideas.

    here...
    here...
    here....
    here....
    here...

    here's a good one on residential sprinklers...



    None of these links are about any individual fire station fire. But there are over a dozen in the search results....
    Last edited by Bones42; 07-15-2004 at 03:22 PM.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I am talking about a FD who would order an apparatus with $5000 worth of gold leaf, but would not put a sprinkler system in. I am talking about a FD who thinks nothing of putting out $100 worth of food fpr a monthly meeting, but won't pay a monthly subscription fee for an alarm system. I am talking about a FD who would spend thoudands extra on custom apparatus instead pf protecting their station.
    George, all this is true about the department in question...? Got proof? That's it I'm moving to New Jersey where all fire departments, police departments, training, stations, equipment and personnel are perfect, a regular utopia of public safety. Hell, fire insurance must be $0.
    John, I'm sorry to hear about you loss. May you get back up to speed as soon as possible.
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    Originally posted by SPFDRum


    George, all this is true about the department in question...? Got proof? That's it I'm moving to New Jersey where all fire departments, police departments, training, stations, equipment and personnel are perfect, a regular utopia of public safety. Hell, fire insurance must be $0.
    John, I'm sorry to hear about you loss. May you get back up to speed as soon as possible.
    How about intellectual honesty?

    You know that I was referring to fire departments in general. The post that I was replying to was talking about fire department sin general and the post HE was replying to was talking about fire department s in general. In fact, the first line of my post that started this discussion was; >>I'm not kicking anyone dept. ... I am kicking the entire US fire service.<<

    NOBODY has said these things about the department in question. NOBODY.

    Don't be an idiot and twist my words to try to make it look like I'm saying something I'm not. People way smarter than you have tried and failed.

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    Children, please.

    I agree with both sides so far. The one word questions came across to me with a bad taste also. I know that wasn't the intention, but that's what everyone needs to realize with online communications: there's the message intended to be sent, and there's the one received. They're not always the same, so sometimes you need to be a little more verbose with posting to get a clear point across.

    Yes, it's a damn shame it happened, and yes it is quite hypocritical that many promote smoke detectors and sprinklers but don't put them in our own stations. Depending on construction, it could be a huge undertaking. If you have the money, maybe it ought to be done right away. Or like others have posted, find an alternative way to get the same job done without getting a professionally installed system. If I can put pipes together, anyone can, so it may take some elbow grease, but I think Bones and George's points were that it's not impossible to do, and it doesn't have to cost money. And yes, it looks really bad when fire stations burn down. It puts everyone at risk when the fire department is hurting.

    Which as others alluded to, is still an open wound. by mentioning these things in this thread, I'd have to agree that salt is being applied to the wounds. I'm sure they realized that they shoulda coulda woulda, but didn't, long before the comments were made about having no sprinklers and whatnot. Hindsight never misses like that, so they really didn't need any of us up on our horses pointing out anything. It would have been more proper to start another forum discussing ideas on how to get stations protected without breaking the bank. We all could have put 2 and 2 together and realize the connection.

    Good luck John. Not much I can do for y'all from down here on short notice, but keep us all posted on what's needed and I'll see what I can gather.

    - Brian
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    George...

    First of all I was disagreeing with Bones42. I don't believe I mentioned you or a thing you said.

    If trying to explain the fact that compassion for the loss of the fire station is more important at this point that pouring salt in the guys wounds is a tantrum, then no I am not done.

    Even if my volly FD had the money we would not waste it on the types of things you mention. Are there some that do? Of course. When we finally get our new station here I will insist that it be sprinklered. Will I win the battle with the Village Board, who knows? I lost at trying to get the new $1.3 million dollar community center / village hall sprinklered or even having a monitored alarm system installed. Heck they are balking at giving us keys incase we have to enter after hours.

    The wonderful world of how it should be unfortunately collides painfully in some places with how it really is. I am glad where you are is completely up to code. Must be terrific to have everything that you need.

    FyredUp

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