How does your Department handle disciplinary procedures when the need for them should happen to arise?
PS: nothing in particular, just curious!
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Thread: Disciplinary procedures
07-14-2004, 02:47 PM #1
Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 07-14-2004 at 04:51 PM."The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY
07-14-2004, 04:23 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA
Dept approach is:
first time = Oral warning
second time= written warning.
Depending on seriousness of the offence, might go straight to written, suspension or even termination.
My approach is to first take the offender to one side and have a quite word in their ear that their behavior is unacceptable. If that fails, then An "Oral" is given and documented, I have yet to have to issue a written warning.
07-14-2004, 04:27 PM #3
it depends on how serious the infraction is. we tend to range in punishments that go anywhere from washing/waxing apparatus to outright suspension or dismission.
of course, many of the threats go unanswered, and many of the proposed disciplinary actions far outweigh the infraction (ie, dismissal from the dept for not completing reports...)IACOJ
"May the gods be between you and the darkness in all the empty places in which you must walk." Ancient Blessing
07-14-2004, 04:39 PM #4
Well captain, it all depends on what the person did.
Something minor or moderate you (+others) have a sit down the the Captain and discuss it. Penalties are usally minor to none,like go wash the trucks or clean the floor or just go home and take it easy for the day.
Something major (fight,theft) immediate suspenion(length depends on what happend) to termination(after investigation) from any and all activitys.
If it is something huge like compromiseing security(it is a Federal site) like giveing out codes,intentionally altering/damageing security equipment,BE will result in an immediate expulsion followed by a state police/FBI investigation.I dont suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
07-14-2004, 04:52 PM #5
I had a boss that insisted the measure of the effectiveness of a supervisor was the number of write-ups he or she issued to his people. He and I had more than one "disagreement" about that philosophy. (You know who I'm talking about, Gonzo. )
Depending what the infraction is, I have always tried a frank but informal discussion with the person, keeping it in house if at all possible. This has almost almost always resolved in a positive outcome, with a certain degree of trust developed between the two of us for not putting them on "front street", so to speak.
One person in particular, that I followed this path with showed me that it was a complete and total waste of time. They didn't know the streets in their first due, knew little about the nuances of their equipment, and showed a complete lack of interest in resolving these issues even when made aware of the potential consequences. In short, they should have never been hired.
To make a long story short, we started the contractual disciplinary procedures...written warning, reprimand, suspension, termination. When this person finally realized the games were over, they "injured" themselves emptying a mop bucket, and that was pretty much the last time we saw them.
We've also got a program called "Discipline without Punishment" in the contract. It's a less "aggressive" way of getting to the same point; achieving a change in an undesireable behavior with termination the ultimate punishment. I don't know that it's ever been used. I've been a supervisor for something like 14 years, and I've written up a total of 3 people. Everyone else has been professional enough to change what needed to be changed.
All I have ever expected from my guys is to know their jobs, and conduct themselves at all times in a prefessional manner. Anything else is unacceptable, and will be dealt with...one way or the other.Steve Gallagher
"I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes
07-14-2004, 07:12 PM #6
Our displinary procedures range anywhere from verbal warnings to expulsion.
Most of the time it is a verbal warning because the infractions are minor, and are easily corrected.
I find that one on one discussions are always the most positive ending (not me getting discussed to, I have been the one discussing). Regular verbal warnings are too terse for my being, and a discussion gets to do just that, discuss the infraction.JLS
51 Pride - R.I.P. Sandy
Alarm 200644004, I won't ever forget.
Remember you only have 1*.
07-16-2004, 03:47 PM #7
We have a code of contract which is binding to our contracts and covers the major stuff such as drunkeness on duty, absent without leave, what we term "dignity in action", which covers a multitude of transgressions such as racist comments/terminology, sexual harrasment,(not that theres much of that on a station of 60 men...). Basically it can be used for anything that the Chief decides may breach ethics and bring the service into disrepute. I have never heard of anyone getting this far, I think their peers would ensure it did'nt.
For the more mundane "stupidity" and things that go wrong, as has been mentioned by others here, a quiet word and perhaps pointing out the error of a persons ways may get the point across. If that fails we can take it to the station commander who can decide if he wishes to issue a verbal or written warning depending on the severity of the case. Verbals are recorded for 12 months and writtens for 3 years. There is a final written warning after that and then if it goes really pear shaped its the long walk to the Chiefs office. (also known as Room 101, as no one realy knows what goes on in there and most don't want to find out!)United Kingdom branch, IACOJ.
07-16-2004, 09:07 PM #8
My department uses verbal and written warnings. Some conduct unbecoming cases were handled by letting the individual quit or retire rather than go through the ordeal of a disciplinary hearing. It takes an act of congress to get someone fired, though it has happened.
In the past, time off work or demotions have been used as punitive measures, depending on the severity of the offense. I personally don't think time off is particularly useful. I'm curious to hear other people's opinions.ullrichk
a ship in a harbor is safe. . . but that's not what ships are for
07-16-2004, 09:24 PM #9
Fire and/or Training relates problems are handled between the member(s) involved and the Captain. The President handles other problems. A member can challenge the Captains findings to the Board of Fire Officers, which is all of our Line Officers. A member can challenge the Presidents findings by appearing before a Review Board, which is 7 members from various areas of the company (Life, Active, Officer, "Grunts")"This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?
07-17-2004, 07:44 AM #10
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