1. #1
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    Default Lifeguards, are they professionals too??

    This is a little something that has kinda erked me for a while. I have seen many news stories that would be worthy of at least some sort of FH.com coverage, but recieved none, due to the fact that they happened to have been lifeguard stories. For example, I posted a thread realating to a lifeguard who was killed in a MVC not far from my home county. This story didnt even make the Florida News section. However, a 911 dispatcher that was killed in an MVC recieved front page status. This is nothing against the dispatcher, however, I just wish the lifeguard was provided the same respect, beyond what the locals offered. There have been Lifeguard LODDs that I have not even show up ANYWHERE on FH.com. EMS professionals are listed as LODDs, even they may not even work for an Fire Dept, while Lifeguards, many of whom are under the FD, are not afforded such coverage. I relize I may be ranting, but I would just like to see the same coverage afforded to my big brothers who are Firefighters apply to my Lifeguard brothers.
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    Do I get a LODD email from firehouse when a cop dies,NO! Do I get a LODD email from Masscops when a firefighter dies,NO!

    Lifeguards, many of whom are under the FD, are not afforded such coverage.
    I may live a shelterd life but I have never seen a life gaurd remotely connected to the fire department accept by dialing 911.

    If there were a "lifegaurds.com" Im sure you would get what your asking for.
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    Just for you Jesse, http://oceancityfire.com/OCBP/OCBP.htm
    Front page of FH.com says:Firefighting, RESCUE and EMS. Lifeguards would def. fit under Rescue and /or EMS, as many are CFR, EMT or Paramedics, and they dont just do water rescues.

    PS, I dont see police/LEOs ANYWHERE on FH.com
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    Originally posted by stm4710
    I may live a shelterd life but I have never seen a life gaurd remotely connected to the fire department accept by dialing 911.
    The Los Angeles County Fire Department Lifeguard Division is responsible for providing lifeguard services for public beaches and coastal areas of Los Angeles County. The Department deploys 120 full-time and 600 seasonal lifeguards operating out of three headquarters located in Hermosa, Santa Monica, and Zuma Beach. They are responsible for 76 miles of coastline including 31 miles of public beach. In addition to providing beach safety, Los Angeles County Lifeguards provide rescue boat operations, underwater rescue and recovery, swift-water rescue, cliff rescue, marine mammal rescue and marine firefighting. They also provide paramedic and rescue boat services to Catalina Island, operating from Avalon and the Isthmus.

    Pismo Beach, California
    Lifeguards are members of the Pismo Beach Fire Department. Lifeguards are hired on a seasonal basis and may work from Memorial Day weekend through Labor Day weekend. The lifeguards protect the 1.5-mile stretch of beach with four lifeguard towers and a patrol vehicle. Lifeguards are supervised by a Head Lifeguard who reports directly to the Lifeguard Coordinator, on-duty Fire Captain or the Battalion Chief. Seasonal staffing consists of approximately 20 lifeguards.

    Now you've seen two. I suspect I could find more.
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    No stm, not a sheltered life. There are "some" lifeguards that are part of Fire Departments, but I would bet the majority are not. Is it changing...yes, for some areas. Follow the OC link above, it took them 103 years before they became part of their FD.
    Last edited by Bones42; 07-23-2004 at 10:03 AM.
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    Wells Beach, Maine: the Wells Beach Lifeguard Service is a division of the Wells Fire Department.

    There's 3!
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    Huh,look at that. I learn something new everyday.
    I had always seen private lifegaurds or they were employed the recreation department if they were municipal.
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    5. Ocean City FD/BP, and 6. Brevard County Fire/Ocean Rescue.
    But back on the topic, do you out there, consider lifeguards to be Public Safety Professionals, and should they be afforded LODD rights?
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    Just what rights are you talking about?
    The story you saw was just another guy that died in a MVC. St Charles had a FF die in a crash not long ago and it didn't make the news.

    Are lifeguards professionals, yes, I was a certified lifeguard at one time and it is much harder and stressful then it looks. Should they get federal death benifits? I don't know, if I had some numbers to ref then I could make a more educated choice. We are different then cops or lifeguards or whatever. The brotherhood runs deep and we look after each other. I don't remember that brotherhood at the waterpark where I worked.

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    Default Damn...

    A-16 beat me too it. The LA County Fire Department employs full-time, professional LIFEGUARDS and LIFEGUARD/PARAMEDICS. Here is their official
    site-

    http://www.lacofd.org/lg_home.htm






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    Default Re: Lifeguards, are they professionals too??

    Originally posted by BLSboy
    a lifeguard who was killed in a MVC not far from my home county. This story didnt even make the Florida News section. However, a 911 dispatcher that was killed in an MVC recieved front page status.
    What the heck is a MVC?

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    Motor Vehicle Crash

    It is the new term for MVA. (their are no accidents)

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    if the lifeguard belongs to an official organization, like LA, Yes.

    if its like where I live, the lifeguards here are mostly teenagers with just ARC CPR and water rescue and think they know everything, in this case, No.
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    I`m sorry, I should have been a bit more specific. When I said LODD benefits, I was refering to either full-time lifeguards, or lifeguards that are under a Fire Dept. I can look at the USLA web page to find statitics on Lifeguard LODDs. I am asking this question because, if something were to happen to me when I become a FD Lifeguard, I want to know that my family/significant other will be taken care of.
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    Originally posted by ADSNWFLD
    Motor Vehicle Crash

    It is the new term for MVA. (their are no accidents)
    You mean people are crashing on purpose now? How silly... The nation surely is in trouble!

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    Here in Asbury Park, NJ, we are working toward moving the Life Guards under the umbrella of the Fire Dept.

    I also think the most famous life guard in the world works for the LACoFD.

    Last edited by TruckSkipper; 07-25-2004 at 03:52 PM.
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    I only know of one dept. in my county that the lifeguards are actualy on the payroll and answer to the chain of command of the FD. However most of the lifeguard "squads?" do work closely with their local FD. We work very close with our lifeguards, most of the time our patients are packaged up before our arrival. We are also in the process of having all of the career members of the FD become USLA cert. lifeguards. We get in the water fairly often in the fall when most of the guards have made their way back to college, or even after hours in the summer. As far as wether LODD of lifeguards should be posted here, I have nothing against it however as stated above I don't see PD LODD's posted here. I don't think it has anything to do w/ lack of respect, just not a lot of exposure into these different fields of public safety on these forums.

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    Originally posted by UsingAllHands
    You mean people are crashing on purpose now? How silly... The nation surely is in trouble!
    not on purpose, but rather, the collision didn't occur by accident. someone messed up. to say it is an accident means that it just happened, while usually the case is that it was preventable.

    but back to the topic at hand, I see lifeguards are professionals, yes, but for the same reason why you don't have tow truck drivers listed in LODD. the vast majority of life guards are not members of a fire department. if they are members of a FD (Like LACoFD), then i'm sure you would get full benefits. if not, then probably not.

    as for tow truck drivers, NYPD does have tow trucks, and they do tow cars. doesn't mean that all tow truck drivers should get LODD benefits?

    however, if a person is in the water, then absolutely then a lifeguard is a professional, and if a lifeguard is treating a person (who is still in the water), 99.999% of the time I will sit back and let them do their thing. after all, it's what they are trained in. once they are taken out of the water though, they should be turned over to EMS.

    now, if a lifeguard is first on scene at an MVC, and is killed, is it a LODD? if he's driving to/from work in his POV and is killed, should it be considered a LODD? should a tow truck driver? what about a Public Service Electric and Gas employee who responds to electrical emergencies? I'm not trying to downplay lifeguards, but where do u draw the line in LODD?
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    No, when I say LODD, it should be in the same criteria as other LODDs, such as responding to, returning from, or in the execution of an emergency. Also, if the should become injured or killed while in duty. Like I posted before, only full-time, or Fire Dept. Lifeguards should be included. Part-time private, or parks and rec. Lifeguards should be included in certain circumstances. I would like to know the real rule about this, if anyone has info on it.
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    Originally posted by DrParasite


    not on purpose, but rather, the collision didn't occur by accident. someone messed up. to say it is an accident means that it just happened, while usually the case is that it was preventable.

    So who was the mastermind behind calling MVA's MVC's, and under what authority was this terminology changed? How long has this been the case? I certainly never heard of this until now, nor have any of the dispatchers or other firefighters I work with. Why wasn't I allowed to vote on this? Will we be receiving some notification or other directive informing us of such? And by what date is the changover supposed to be complete? I want answers, dammit!

    (We now return to our previously low level of sarcasm...but seriously, feel free to answer my queries.)

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    So who was the mastermind behind calling MVA's MVC's, and under what authority was this terminology changed? How long has this been the case? I certainly never heard of this until now, nor have any of the dispatchers or other firefighters I work with.
    I've been aware of this for quite some time now. In fact I've not only heard the switch to Motor Vehicle Crash but also to Motor Vehicle Wreck (MVW). Anything to keep from calling it an accident.
    As for Lifeguards, if they are employed and on the clock for the Fire Department when they die they should get LODD benefits and mentioned in the same lists as everyone else in the fire service who is killed on the job.
    Steve aka cellblock
    Last edited by cellblock; 07-25-2004 at 01:06 PM.

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    Miami-Dade County Fire Rescue recently integrated the County Parks Ocean Rescue/Lifeguards into the department. They provide lifeguard services at two county parks with beaches. Crandon Park on Key Biscayne, and Haulover Park near Bal Harbour.

    If I recall right, about 50 or 70 personnel that got integrated. The long term plan is to train all of the lifeguard staff as Firefighter/EMT's. This will allow them to move throughout the department, as well as allow other firefighters to "bid" onto the beach (with proper qualifications of course).

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    Originally posted by UsingAllHands


    So who was the mastermind behind calling MVA's MVC's, and under what authority was this terminology changed? How long has this been the case? I certainly never heard of this until now, nor have any of the dispatchers or other firefighters I work with. Why wasn't I allowed to vote on this? Will we be receiving some notification or other directive informing us of such? And by what date is the changover supposed to be complete? I want answers, dammit!

    (We now return to our previously low level of sarcasm...but seriously, feel free to answer my queries.)
    lol, think it was mainly the legal system/law enforcement... motor vehicle collisions MVC's, or in some parts, traffic collisions TC's.

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    Arrow You say TOMATO, I say TOMATO.

    I'm right there with you UAH.

    I see every few months someone somewhere wastes my time(I read the stuff) and their effort on writing an article in one of the major or minor fire service publications or on this or other forums about some vast change in the vernacular and terminology. (We just had this wonderful discussion on these forums not 2 months ago I do believe regarding MAYDAYS.) They fill the pages with some articles based on one or two fires in their city they adapt some new concept and new terms that the fire service already had terms for. I note a distintive lack of research out there by many who think they have stummbled upon a new concept or terminology. I have taining manuals dating from the 1930s and 40s...honestly most things haven't changed and most were already thought of at one time.

    This is the kind of thinking that got us "ERTs" instead of "Firefighters", "single unit resource" in lieu of "companies" and "Divisons" in lieu of "floors", "Emergency Traffic" instead of "Mayday".. etc...!

    Meanwhile all the time spent on re-writing procedural guides to recongnize this supposedly critical flaw in communication could have been better spent amassing data and technical reports on why you need more staffing, better training, or better facilities.

    Did changing MVA to MVC in your respective depts really do anything to change your response, service, treatment or command of the incident? I seriously doubt it would.

    Communication is simple... If you say MVA, and you know what it means and I know what it means...then why bother spending time and effort re-educating everyone on a term that did nothing to affect the end result?

    Anyhow....

    As for LODD benefits if they are FFs give them the whole deal. If they aren't give them whatever that community feels they are due. I'm not sure I completely understand having the FD in charge of lifegaurds.

    Perhaps It works best for that community administratively, Aside from beaches, would you also agree to have city pools staffed by cross trained FFs? I'm not sure I see the need in that as a Taxpayer. (Devils Advocate here folks.)

    I know most cities have tried awfully hard to do away with staff FF positions that were viewed as unnecessary to have a FF in them and "civilianized" them. Such as Medical office personell, Dispatchers, adminstrative paper pushers, etc. Why pay to have a FF with all his training, qualifications and certifications, along with a large salary and benefits when a younger, Lifegaurd wouldn't cost as much to employ and would always be focused on a lifegaurds duties...not some guy from Engine Co. 3 detailed for that tour to the beach.

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    Last edited by FFFRED; 07-27-2004 at 12:39 AM.

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    I belive that the Lifeguards are under the Fire Dept. for the same reason that EMS services are. It is a streamlined organization, and, during the off season for lifeguards, the FFs who are cross-trained in water rescue techniques can do better at H2O rescues. What about the civilian EMS professionals that are killed, if I remember correctly ,they are listed as LODD on the front page of FH.com. If the Lifeguard is under the direction of the FD, then they should be entitled to LODD benefits. Please keep this thread going with your comments.
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