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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default 9/11 Commission Final Report

    The final report is out. I downloaded and printed it. 585 pages!
    Who will join me in reading the entire report and come back here and discuss it?
    Now; when you download the report, you do not get the Executive Summary. So, you will have to download and print the ES also.
    I noticed that Chapter 10 of the report is dedicated to the FDNY response to the terrorist attack.
    I want to discuss the report solely on the information contained therein.
    I want to keep the political undertones to a minimum, if possible.
    Well; I'd better get started.
    Personally; I think it will be very interesting and hopefully, informative.
    I will reserve judgment until read.
    CR
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    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)


  2. #2
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    CR I will be reading it too.....I have the ES already. The rest I will have to do on Monday after I go buy a ream of paper for the printer.


    Cheffie

  3. #3
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    Default 911 Commision--NYC Anti-Terror Effort Grossly Underfunded

    I have not read the report yet, but this was in the New York Post:

    July 23, 2004 -- WASHINGTON - New York City's anti-terror resources are being grossly underfunded by the White House and Congress, which treat the critical money as "pork-barrel spending," the new 9/11 report charges.
    Instead of helping New York arm itself against another attack, Washington lawmakers are engaged in a "free-for-all" for the federal aid, the panel concluded.

    The bipartisan criticism echoes complaints from Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-Brooklyn, Queens) and others, who say millions in Homeland Security money goes disproportionately to remote states like Wyoming and Alaska instead of New York.

    Mayor Bloomberg, in a written statement, said, "It is nothing short of scandalous that New York City and New York state still rank almost at the very bottom of anti-terrorism funding, and I urge Congress to immediately take steps to allocate money where the greatest risks lie."

    In a separate section, the commission's report offers unflinching criticism of Bloomberg's effort to improve Police and Fire department coordination, and spotlights many of the failings of the NYPD, FDNY and Port Authority in the first hours after two planes slammed into the World Trade Center towers on Sept. 11, 2001.

    "The FDNY, as an institution, proved incapable of coordinating the numbers of units dispatched to different points within the 6-acre complex," the report found. "As a result, numerous units were congregating in the undamaged Marriott Hotel and at the overall command post while chiefs of the south tower were still in desperate need of units."

    The report did exonerate Battalion Chief Joseph Pfieffer, who had come under fire for failing to properly turn on the repeater - which relayed messages across the radios — in the north tower, the first one hit. The report found the repeater system "seemed inoperable."

    It also disproved a widely held theory that cops didn't relay evacuation orders to firefighters, noting that at least 24 of the 32 fire companies in the north tower received the orders.

    The commission did dodge a key question: whether screw-ups among the uniformed personnel cost lives.

    "Whether the lack of coordination between the FDNY and NYPD on September 11 had a catastrophic effect has been the subject of controversy. We believe that there are too many variables for us to responsibly quantify those consequences," the report says.

    On the question of spending federal resources in the war against terror, the 10-member commission was crystal-clear.

    "Homeland-security assistance should be based strictly on the assessment of risks and vulnerabilities. In 2004, Washington and New York City are certainly at the top of any such list. Congress should not use this money as a pork barrel," the report says.

    But just hours after trhe report was released, several powerful Republican lawmakers expressed doubts about adopting the recommendations.

    Sen. Kit Bond (Mo.) pointed out that "there's a lot of other targets," adding, "Should homeland security focus only on Washington and New York City, you can be sure terrorists will strike elsewhere."

    "We need to worry about agri-terrorism," Bond added.

    Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas agreed that the threat from terrorists to Kansas corn, wheat and soybeans is "very real."

    On the question of New York's current emergency-response plan — which lays out which agency will take the lead on terror incident — the 9/11 commission was disappointed.

    "This falls short of an optional response plan, which requires clear command and control," the report says.

  4. #4
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
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  5. #5
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    CR...I am gonna buy it and read it.... I would love to discuss it with you, but not certain when I will get it done. This online college stuff is kicking my butt!
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    Default Border's

    I picked up a copy of the report at Border's Books for $ 10.00. It was a lot faster than printing it out. I'm sure it will take me a while to read it. I look forward to the discussion.

    Patrick

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    Default

    Could you post a link to the report for download?

    Thanks, I dont think I will print it, probly wait until I can get to a book store.

    I will start reading the electronic report though.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  8. #8
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/22/po...C-SUMM.html?hp



    http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/..._911Report.pdf



    The first link is for the Executive Summary which is about 19 pages.

    The second link is for the full report.

    I ended up just spending the $10 too. Quicker and easier than printing it up.

  9. #9
    Forum Member allineedisu's Avatar
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    Post 9-11 Commission Report

    Here is the link for the complete report.




    http://www.9-11commission.gov/

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber SamsonFCDES's Avatar
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    It was such a huge attack/incident that there is almost no way you can be ready for such a horrid occurance.

    One thing keeps running throug my mind as I read the report...

    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of preparidness.

    Hunt the terrorists, find where they sleep, and kill them.
    -Brotherhood: I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.
    -Mistakes: It could be that the purpose of you life is to serve as a warning to others.

    -Adversity: That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.

    -Despair: Its always darkest before it goes Pitch Black.

  11. #11
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    Default

    you can also buy it online at http://bookstore.gpo.gov/911commission.html
    it's about 13.00 with shipping and all. As soon as I get mine, I would love to discuss it with everyone.

    BTW, Capt. Stanm1, where are u taking online classes? I am currently pursuing a Masters, but want to continue education when I have completed that. Have a hard time finding classes around here that are relevant to firefighting. Thanks

  12. #12
    Forum Member DualReverse's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by nepatsfan12
    you can also buy it online at http://bookstore.gpo.gov/911commission.html
    it's about 13.00 with shipping and all. As soon as I get mine, I would love to discuss it with everyone.

    BTW, Capt. Stanm1, where are u taking online classes? I am currently pursuing a Masters, but want to continue education when I have completed that. Have a hard time finding classes around here that are relevant to firefighting. Thanks
    Just got mine in the mail yesterday...
    For nepatsfan, try http://iep.jsu.edu ; its the Institute of Emergency Preparedness at Jacksonville State. They offer a Masters of Public Admin and/or a specialization in emergency management. Not directly related to firefighting, but a great program. I'm in the third year of the MPA program, and its been a great experience. Have seen many fire/rescue personnel in class, from FDNY to Seattle....Take a look...I know you're looking for post graduate stuff, and I think they have some continuing ed stuff too; maybe a certificate or some such...
    Last edited by DualReverse; 07-29-2004 at 03:45 PM.
    Remember KQJ943

  13. #13
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    Default

    DuelReverse- Thanks for the info, will have to look into that.

    For anyone who is planning on reading the report, I suggest that you write down the abbrev. and what they mean as you come upon them. They sound really easy to remember at first, than the more you read, the less clear they become.

    I have finished chap 1 and because I am sure I will not remember all my thoughts/feelings 500 pages from now, am going to post thoughts by chapter.

    First of all; I am sooo sorry to all of the air traffic controllers who had to deal with this diaster. Were things handled all together correctly, not from the sounds of it. However, they did the best they could with the training, knowledge, and thought process they had (who would have thought this is what the final result would have been). I know how crappy it feels to have no ability to stop impending hurt, so I can only imagine what it was like for those watching it unfold on the screen in front of them.
    Second of all; it is one thing to allow people to get through security undetected, however, CAPPS selected, by my recolection, 5 of the hijackers for special security measures-ensuring that they loaded the plane before the bag did. Personally, if you are picked up by CAPPS, U CANNOT FLY US AIRLINERS OR AIRLINERS INTO US AIR SPACE. END OF DISCUSSION.
    Thirdly (that a word??) The miscommunication was horrendous. From not telling fighter jets that they were to shoot down planes (what a tough decision, never knowing if you made the right choice), to thinking that planes were still in the air that had already crashed ---36 min after AA 11 crashed into the WTC, and Cleveland center advising NEADS of the hijacking of UA 93 4 minutes after it has crashed, and 31 minutes after a flight attendant notifies UA of the hijacking.
    Sorry for all the run-ons.
    Thoughts so far, any input or clearer picture would be appreciated.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default Chapter 9-Heroism and Horror

    I have read the report and even took in some of the hearings on the recommendations.
    I have the utmost respect for Chairmans Kean and Hamilton. Lee Hamilton is my kind of guy.
    For the sake of brevity, I would like to discuss the chapter that deals with the emergency response.
    I have posted an article that I wrote for the IACOJ website.
    It is reprinted here by permission:
    Reprinted by permission:
    The 9/11 Commission Report
    Over-stating the Obvious?

    By
    Art Goodrich


    In less than two months, we will observe the third anniversary of 9/11.

    For me, the most compelling section of the 9/11 Commission Report is Chapter 9-Heroism and Horror. It is in this chapter that the response of NYC’s public safety agencies is addressed in detail. And, in my mind, it leaves no questions as to the importance-albeit; the necessity-of unified and shared command at a multi-agency response. One needs to look no further, when formulating the argument for unified/shared command.

    Dennis Smith, in his book Report From Ground Zero, puts the names and faces on the 343 FDNY personnel lost that day, while answering their call to duty. The 9/11 Commission Report is void of names, but is still a very emotional account, nonetheless. The underlying tone that struck me was one of hopelessness and further fueled with frustration.

    And almost three years, post incident comes our “lessons learned” and is stated in the last, two paragraphs of Chapter 9 and states:

    The lesson of 9/11 for civilians and first responders can be stated simply: in the new age of terrorism, they-we-are the primary targets. The losses America suffered that day demonstrated both the gravity of the terrorist threat and the commensurate need to prepare ourselves to meet it.

    The first responders of today live in a world transformed by the attacks on 9/11. Because no one believes that every conceivable form of attack can be prevented, civilians and first responders will again find themselves on the front lines. We must plan for that eventuality. A rededication to preparedness is perhaps the best way to honor the memories of those we lost that day
    .

    That last sentence-A rededication to preparedness is perhaps the best way to honor the memories of those we lost that day-is the single, most articulate statement to come from the report, as it is central to what we do as first responders. When I analyze that statement, I also consider the shift of priorities that has occurred for our nation’s fire service, in particular.

    I don’t believe that preparedness means to fill out the grant applications, stand in line and garner truckloads of equipment used for a terrorist response. I think that it goes much deeper than that. What I believe is that we prepare our departments for a structured and measured response by following a chain of command with function specific assignments. Creating a culture where it is evident and clearly communicated that the task of every person is key to a successful outcome. Creating a culture where rank is earned and is then tempered with mutual respect. Creating a culture where SOPs/SOGs are written, implemented and FOLLOWED EVERY TIME! Creating a culture where equipment/product upgrade is encouraged and revenue streams are found to pay for it. Creating a culture where good mental and physical health is maintained as a matter of course. Creating a culture where open cooperation with the other public safety agencies is an extension of the fire department’s mission.

    And by creating a culture where everyone shares in the outcome of an incident.

    Notice that I did not say “success or failure”. That’s because I believe that making mistakes is not failure; it’s making progress. If you believe that you learn from your mistakes, then you are making progress towards your goals next time out. We put ourselves between an incident that we didn’t cause and the forces that we cannot control. The old saying goes, “if you put enough water on a fire, it will eventually go out”. But we don’t control fuel load, wind direction, wind velocity or other natural phenomenon. If we fail at anything, it is in our ability to predict the unpredictable.

    Regardless, we have to share it ALL-good or bad-as a fire department and leave the finger pointing to the politicians. The 9/11 Commission spoke in somewhat disbelief of responders who REFUSED to leave the Towers, even after the evacuation order was given. They point out that there were several factors involved with the evacuation order, due to communications problems, such as: some responders “self-dispatched” and didn’t have radios; the primary channel became overloaded with radio traffic; some were on different frequencies; the repeater may not have been fully activated, if at all; and still others heard the call to evacuate and refused to do it, in order to rescue not only civilians, but other responders as well.

    The 9/11 Commission spoke to the fact that many in the Towers were “calmed” by seeing firefighters going “up” as they were coming “down”. The Commission concluded that panic was averted by the mere presence of the firefighters. As a result, several thousand survived.

    And that’s little consolation to the families, friends and fellow firefighters of the ones who died, but the death toll would have been much greater without FDNY’s selfless acts of courage. That is a fact!

    There will be more acts of terrorism. There will be fires, HazMat spills, vehicles accidents, building collapses, floods and tornadoes.

    We need to be better prepared.

    And we must ALL work together like never before in order to do that!

    Stay safe above all else.
    So; give me your thoughts.
    CR
    Last edited by ChiefReason; 08-01-2004 at 01:43 PM.
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  15. #15
    Forum Member firemanpat29's Avatar
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    Default bump

    bought my copy today, good advice about the abbr notes
    there is a list at the begining of the foot notes.
    also there is alot of info in the footnotes themselves,
    some go into alot of details I have never heard anywhere
    else. CR I will be glad to discuss it with y'all just as
    soon as I read more of it. Should we do this a chapter
    or two at a time or read the whole report and then go back
    chapter by chapter ????

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