1. #1
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    Question Need help from FDNY

    My small fire department answered a call for a woman stuck in an elevator today because of a power outage. It is the only elevator in town. The firefighters did know to shut off the power first. They then used a pry bar to open the doors and get the woman out.

    I seem to remember a web site that had procedures for FDNY covering all types of things. I would guess that FDNY does this all the time so if someone could direct me to a site that outlines procedures for elevator rescue it would be most helpful. I'm retired but the assistant chief asked me for advice and I said I would check.

    Thanks much

    Stay safe

    Pete
    Pete Sinclair
    Hartford, MI
    IACOJ (Retired Division)

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    When ever possible, Up and Out, NOT Down and Out.

    Anyone wanna tell him why?

    BTW, good training videos for a good cause:
    http://www.nyffburncenter.com/totalorderform.htm
    Last edited by E229Lt; 08-02-2004 at 05:13 PM.

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    Originally posted by E229Lt
    When ever possible, Up and Out, NOT Down and Out.

    Anyone wanna tell him why?

    BTW, good training videos for a good cause:
    http://www.nyffburncenter.com/totalorderform.htm
    Lt.,

    Do you have any info on any of those training videos? Such as their length, etc. I am looking to buy a couple (such as forcible entry), as they are very reasonably priced. Thanks.

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    Answer(?) If the elevator falls, when going down and out, it could hit victim and rescuer(s).
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

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    Originally posted by E229Lt
    When ever possible, Up and Out, NOT Down and Out.

    Anyone wanna tell him why?

    BTW, good training videos for a good cause:
    http://www.nyffburncenter.com/totalorderform.htm
    I know, I know. (from experience.) My first semester of college, getting tour of library. Stupid professor said we could get entire class in the levator, way over the weight limit. Got stuck. Maintenance came, opened the door, half way between floor 3 and 4. Used a stool to have the students step down on to get to floor 3. Stool kicked out on one of the students, and she fell back into the shaft. Was caught by another student, who was able to pull her out.

    I have some of the tapes. Well worth the money, which goes to a good cause.

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    Originally posted by cdmrtn7
    I have some of the tapes. Well worth the money, which goes to a good cause.
    To reitirate erics99's post... Could someone please post futher information about the videos available from the burn center? There seems to be no synopses or other details about the tapes available. I'm especially curious about the elevator tape.

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    We only open an elevator car's doors as a last resort when between floors.

    Most of the time you can lower the car level with the lower floor. Open up the outer doors with the elevator key, hit the lever or the inner doors and you're in.

    No need for ladders, pry bars or other tools, just an elevator door key.

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    Answer(?) If the elevator falls, when going down and out, it could hit victim and rescuer(s).
    Nope

    Stool kicked out on one of the students, and she fell back into the shaft.
    A secondary concern, but not what we're looking for. 25% credit.

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    Originally posted by E229Lt


    Nope



    A secondary concern, but not what we're looking for. 25% credit.
    Attempting to further my own knowledge, is it because you dont want to be working around an open shaft? To great a risk of falling down it yourself?
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    Smile Thanks, so far

    The department has a key to control the elevator, i.e. turn the power off or operate it separate from the floor buttons but they do not have a door key. What does a door key look like, how does it work and where should it be kept?

    Thanks and stay safe,

    Pete
    Pete Sinclair
    Hartford, MI
    IACOJ (Retired Division)

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    Your best bet is to find out the various types of elevators in your area, then contact a mechanic and drill with him on the best way to open the doors, what keys to do. We deal with project elevators on a daily basis, and can get people out often within seconds, but we would have a harder time with some of the elevators in midtown office buildings, whereas the midtown guys would have little trouble.
    It really depends on your response area.

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    If they are the same videos from a few years back, OK about 10 years back, they are great. ELEVATOR EMERGENCIES is a bit dull but has some good info.
    Have they been updated?
    Even if they are the old ones we have in out library they are great.
    FE is especially good it sumarizes the entire set of Fire engineering tapes in about 20 minutes.
    Some real hip music also in the old tapes.

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    Question Artie whats the answer ?

    the only 2 places we have an elevator is the Jr High/High school (3 stories) and a 3 story Marriott hotel.......what is the answer ? in my 17 years on we have never had a person stuck in an elevator.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Here's what a typical set of elevator keys looks like: http://www.edarley.com/darley/itm_img/AC820.jpg

    The L-shaped key in the center is the one to open the doors. You stick the end through the small hole towards the top of the door and then you can release the door mechanism.

    We keep ours on our rescue truck as it responds to all elevator rescue calls.

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    what is the answer ?
    The answer is a question: Which way do elevators fall?

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    down ....... with gravity..........
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Taking a person up and out prevents them from falling down the shaft if they should lose their footing after geting out of the elevator. If you have to take them down and out, you must protect or barricade the shaft opening.
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry
    Captain, Rescue Company 1
    City of Bayonne (NJ) Fire Department

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    down ....... with gravity..........
    Incorrect!

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    They don't fall, they have safety's on them. You can cut the cables to the counterweights and they still won't fall.
    Kevin M. Fitzhenry
    Captain, Rescue Company 1
    City of Bayonne (NJ) Fire Department

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    WELL TELL US ALREADY!!!!

    JEEZ

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    Exclamation

    thank you Dickey .
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Elevators fall up. The counterweights are designed for a fully loaded elevator plus about 15%. Should a failure occur it is the counterweight which falls and the elevator rises. (With the exception of all the cables being cut, highly unlikely)

    Elevator brakes stop downward motion. Forcing the car up will tend to release them.

    As to the original question "why up and out?" While the shaft opening is a concern, bringing a person through the opening and down exposes them to the possible upward movement of the car, trapping them between the floor of the car and the top of the shaftway door. Several half victims have been removed this way. Up and out will give you a little time to clear the opening should any movement occur. All of the above are done with power off, of course.

    Sorry for the delayed answer. I thought this was a common operation.

    NOTE: The above does not apply to hydraulic, cableless elevators found in many lowrise buildings.
    Last edited by E229Lt; 08-05-2004 at 04:02 PM.

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    Not too many elevators in my first due. Any elevator rescues at the local universities and other taller buildings will be handled by the first due company. But thank you for another tool to put in the tool box!
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    Smile Update

    After pressure from the Chief, the building management finally found the elevator door key in a desk drawer. It is now in the key box that the fire department has access to. The department is also scheduled to meet with the elevator maintance company to learn more about this particular elevator, the only one in town.

    Thanks to everyone for all the help.

    Stay safe,

    Pete
    Pete Sinclair
    Hartford, MI
    IACOJ (Retired Division)

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    Default Talk about timing

    This one appears to be a good tie-in to what E229Lt stated on his post. You canít beat experience, thanks for sharing it with us E229Lt.

    Stay tuned for the particulars when the investigation is completed and its findings are published.


    Freak Elevator Accident Kills One In New York City

    JOE McGURK, ERIKA MARTINEZ and ZACH HABERMAN
    Courtesy of The New York Post

    A freak accident in a Times Square building sent a freight elevator skyrocketing up and slamming into the top of the shaft, instantly killing the car's operator and shaking the whole building "like an earthquake," officials said.

    Carl Declercq, 63, of Richmond Hill, Queens, was riding down on the elevators at 5 Times Square at 4:30 p.m. when a malfunction launched the elevator upward.

    The freight car slammed into the shaft's 37th-floor bulkhead and immediately killed Declercq, who was alone in the car.

    "The car shot to the top floor. It went up and hit with a tremendous force," said FDNY Deputy Chief Joseph Saccente.

    Officials said the elevator went out of control as it passed an ascending car near the 19th floor.

    That elevator shook around then snapped to a halt, causing minor injuries to two passengers inside.

    They both declined medical attention.

    Investigators are now checking what caused the tragic accident.

    Officials said that it may have been a snapped cable or a failed balancing mechanism.

    "I saw him just five minutes before it happened," said Robert McKenzie, a co-worker At Pro Quest Security. "I was just in that elevator.

    "It could have been any one of us," said a stunned McKenzie.

    "He was a cheerful guy. He just joked around all the time," he said.

    The crashing elevator sent shards of metal and glass plummeting down the shaft and sent vibrations through the building.

    A number of people made nervous 911 calls when they felt the rumbling.

    "It was scary. It was very loud," said Elia Gonzalez, who was working in an Ernst & Young office on the fourth floor.

    "The floor shook. It was like an earthquake," she said.

    Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who keeps an office for his consulting firm, Giuliani Partners LLC, in the building, was seen being escorted out after the accident.

    A spokesman for the Department of Buildings said there are 43 "devices" in the building, which include passenger and freight elevators along with escalators.

    Ten of those devices were issued violations in May, but it was not known if the fateful elevator had been cited.

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