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What is out there for Class A pumpers, El Cheapo style?
IE, under 100,000.
Are there any on F550 4 door Chassis?
How about on the mid range chassis?
Also, IIRC to be Class A pumper you need:
- 300 Gallon Tank
- 750 GPM pump
- Hose capacity of some sort
- 3 ladders of some sort
Is there any reason that this couldnt fit on an F550 4 door?
Does anybody make a Class A F550?
Just looking for ideas on basic VERY afordable pumpers.
If by Class A (essentially undefined) you mean a pumper that meets ISO/NFPA standards a F550 is to small a chassis. Need a chassis with at least 30000lb GVWR to make a "real" truck. In my opinion the F550 is an excellent truck but does not fit the bill.
Last fall I put together a project to purchase a low budget new truck for our dept. Standard was a "Pierce Contender" (commercial 2dr) but on a used chassis. Our dept, after much discussion, decided to not proceed with the project as would tap us out (loan repay) for 10 years. We found a very good low mile 1988 Ford L9000 that met our requirements.
In concept 1500gal w/dump, 1500gpm pump, equiped to ISO standards. 2Dr commerical chassis for the Contender is a $50000. I located a 4 year old diesel auto FL70 flatbed (used flatbeds are less expensive to purchase than other trucks) with less than 29000mi off lease @ $18500. Every big box home improvement/lumberyard has such a truck and they are leased. Talked to a couple small fire truck manufacturers and quotes were in the $70000-$80000 to construct the truck to Pierce Contender standard. Chassis mods required are remap (reprog) the auto trans by local Allison tech rep., perhaps shorten wheelbase (minor), perhaps reprog/change injectors on the engine if you want more HP (@ local dealer).
So you have to do some work, not just be a lazy checkbook shopper. Locate a chassis, remove (and sell body), shorten to meet requirement, deliver to truck dealer for engine/trans update then deliver to body mfg. Our total was going to be approx. $98500 for a new truck on a 30000mi (not even broken in chassis). Would last us 20years.
So a "Real" truck IS doable for $100K.
If you must have a brand spanking chassis check out www.h-gac.com
Of the various government contract purchase organizations they have the best pricing I have seem. Everything from F150 up. Also have contract pricing for fire trucks.
Thanks for the input.
The reason I was looking at the F550 is because we can buy those on our state fleet rate.
This is 03 prices, I heard 04 is a couple of grand higher.
23,000$ for F550 V10 regular cab Manual 4x4 at the low end to...
31,000$ for F550 Powerstroke regular cab Auto 4x4 at the high end.
Probly a couple of grand fo the 4 door, can probly drop the 4x4, so for <35,000 should be able to get the diesel F550.
17,500 GVW is probly going to cut it very very thing like you mentioned.
In theory one should be able to get the minimum requirments meet, and that is realy all we are looking for. We dont plan to load it up with every tool know to man, just what works for us which is a pretty basic tool load. We are very rural and thats about all we need.
Probly 400 or less poly tank...
Thinking Polybuilt body to save weight...
Unpainted to save money...
In fact ZERO crome/diamond plate/etc...
Just Rhino Liner we would probly paint on ourselves...
Rear mount 750 GPM pump for simplicity...
Ladder rack and simple hose bed.
How much that would all weigh, I dont know right off hand, trying to figure it up.
We would do as much work ourselves as possible, but trying to build a structure capable pumper is a WHOLE different ball game the building a homebuilt brush truck, something we have a lot of experience at.
I have absolutely no recollection of a name, location, or anything, but I recall seeing an ad for a Ford F600 or so pumper with a steel body, very basic compartmentation, etc. for 70 something thousand.
Another option might be a new body built on an older chassis. I think Charlie Wynn at www.wynnfire.com does some of that stuff.
Good luck.
I Think I see where you are coming from with the 550, but don't do it. Brush rigs are one thing, and you guys do them well, but if you remotely want to have any rating whatsoever from the ISO, you'll need a "Real" Pumper. Take some time, shop around thru the used Apparatus Ads that seem to be in the mail every week. You should be able to find something to suit your budget AND your operational plans. It might even have some shiny metalwork at no extra charge.:D
Are you working on brush truck or pumper?
From your other posts you're working the same side of the street we are. Outside the box/limited funds. Though sounds like you have more $ that we do.
You said you are working on a Class A pumper (which really is not a definition of anything). F550 is not going to do that. Would make a fine base for a 1st due or a brush/wildland truck. We are currently putting together such a truck using a 4x4 IH1854 (diesel, auto 24000mi) I got from the AirFarce.
Current price on hgacbuy.com for Ford.
F550 Conventional cab; SRA; 17500# GVWR; Ford 6.8L gas engine @ 310 HP; 6000# front axle; 11500# rear axle; 141/60 wheelbase/CTA; 4-speed automatic transmission $20,119.00
F650 Conventional cab; SRA; 26000# GVWR; Ford 6.0L diesel engine @ 200 HP; 8500# front axle; 17500# rear axle; 158/84 wheelbase/CTA; 5-speed automatic transmission $29,013.00
F750 Conventional cab; SRA; 33000# GVWR; Ford 6.0L diesel engine @ 200 HP; 10000# front axle; 21000# rear axle; 158/84 wheelbase/CTA; 5-speed automatic transmission $29,713.00
If buying new not that high a price to go to a 650 and purchase worthwhile GVWR.
OR Freighliner M2-70 Conventional cab; SRA; 33000# GVWR; MBE900 4.3L diesel engine @ 190 HP; 12000# front axle; 21000# rear axle; 150/84 wheelbase/CTA; 5-speed manual transmission $33,745.00
See also http://www.isomitigation.com/fire70.html for load you need to consider in order to meet the minimal standard.
Also need at least 1000gpm in order to meet fireflow req of typical residence.
We are in desperate need of a pumper of any sort. Our current unit is near giving up the ghost. In desperate enough need that we are considering breaking out the tool chest and trying to wrench one together. I agree Hwoods, not something to be taken lightly! A completly different sort of shadetree firetruck. But I am confident we could come pretty close to a "Real" pumper. We have 6 circle track racers on the VFD, 1 a pro welder, 1 the forman of the county shop, 2 certified diesel mechanics, 1 plumber, and the other a farmer! :DQuote:
Originally posted by neiowa
Are you working on brush truck or pumper?
From your other posts you're working the same side of the street we are. Outside the box/limited funds. Though sounds like you have more $ that we do.
We also have a Drafter (CAD plans and what not) and lots of cheap laborers, LOL. The son of the Assistant cheif is an engineer who would help us calculate and such.
No doubt it would be a LONG project and a LOT of work, but it would realy save on green backs and be funner then dozens of fund raisers and waiting for grant paperwork to clear.
What we could realy get the most use out of is a Interface type unit. We are supremely rural MT fire district with far more wildland fires then structure fires. Something like the BLM Type 14, but with 1000 GPM pump and at least 750 tank if it is on a Navstar.
But, we do need to have a structure capable truck around, and we are trying to maintain our pityfull class 8 ISO if for no other reason then so that the highschool can get insurance.
Budget wise things are slowly improving. Operating budget average past 3 years has been 31,000$. It has been creeping up as more money has become available to the county.
Last year we recieved 85,000 from AFG fire grant which help IMMENSELY!!! Replaced 50% of our PPE, 12 SCBAs, TIC, Compressor. All a Godsend. This in turn freed up some money to spend elswhere.
Then we got 11,000 from a state grant.
So we are not yet rolling in it, but we finaly have a chance to update some seriously oudated equipment that was a safety liability.
Our current pumper is a safety liability at this piont, but it going to take a very out of the box approach to get it done.
The district board said try to do it <50,000...I know this is very very difficult to do. They want unit that will last a long time. Realisticaly I am expecting it to be 100,000 give or take. If you are going less then 50,000 you are probly just buying yourself a couple of years service and then you are back in the same boat of having a dangerous POS.
I see "Class A" pumper everywhere I turn. I am asuming it means Class A pumper from NFPA 1901 IIRC. I assume this is the minimum standard???Quote:
You said you are working on a Class A pumper (which really is not a definition of anything). F550 is not going to do that. Would make a fine base for a 1st due or a brush/wildland truck. We are currently putting together such a truck using a 4x4 IH1854 (diesel, auto 24000mi) I got from the AirFarce.
A International 4x4 would be a PERFECT chassis for us to start work on. I have been calling our state surplus guy for ever trying to get a DOD hand me down (thats what you mean by AirFarce, correct?) but the guy seems clueless as to how to get one. The only thing he says is "we only get OLD 6x6 trucks here, I can MAYBE get you one of those, but it will be old".
Not exactly a step in the right direction IMO.
Yes, those are great prices...Quote:
Current price on hgacbuy.com for Ford.
F550 Conventional cab; SRA; 17500# GVWR; Ford 6.8L gas engine @ 310 HP; 6000# front axle; 11500# rear axle; 141/60 wheelbase/CTA; 4-speed automatic transmission $20,119.00
F650 Conventional cab; SRA; 26000# GVWR; Ford 6.0L diesel engine @ 200 HP; 8500# front axle; 17500# rear axle; 158/84 wheelbase/CTA; 5-speed automatic transmission $29,013.00
F750 Conventional cab; SRA; 33000# GVWR; Ford 6.0L diesel engine @ 200 HP; 10000# front axle; 21000# rear axle; 158/84 wheelbase/CTA; 5-speed automatic transmission $29,713.00
If buying new not that high a price to go to a 650 and purchase worthwhile GVWR.
OR Freighliner M2-70 Conventional cab; SRA; 33000# GVWR; MBE900 4.3L diesel engine @ 190 HP; 12000# front axle; 21000# rear axle; 150/84 wheelbase/CTA; 5-speed manual transmission $33,745.00
But can a Voly Fire District in Montana purchase with HGAC???
That would be great if we could!
Yes, I agree, a F750 would be much much better then a F550, but we dont have that option from what I understand, unless we could go through HGAC or some other purchasing group.
I am searching the HGAC website, but I have yet to find a yes or no answer about out of state purchasers.
Thanks for the input all.
My company might be able to help. Please call 610-272-4686 and ask for the Chief Engineer. We have a truck for sale that does not have too much wear on it and it wil definitely give you a few years if not more.
If you need any more information, just drop me a line.
Good Luck with your search
I never got back to this thread. If you're still working this project. My email conversations with HGAC are that any gov't body can "join" You'll pay a purchase fee and can purchase at their prices. On the otherhand you might also wave the HGAC price list in the face of some local vendors and ask them to get with Fore/Chevy/etc and get you the same pricing.Quote:
Originally posted by SamsonFCDES
Yes, those are great prices...
But can a Voly Fire District in Montana purchase with HGAC???
That would be great if we could!
Yes, I agree, a F750 would be much much better then a F550, but we dont have that option from what I understand, unless we could go through HGAC or some other purchasing group.
I am searching the HGAC website, but I have yet to find a yes or no answer about out of state purchasers.
Thanks for the input all.