Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 32 of 32
  1. #21
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    1,744

    Default

    Having spent most of my previous life as a dispatcher(we call em Fire Alarm Operators) I'll offer this perspective.....

    Sending Dispatchers through FF I training can only help. The more they understand about the job, the better they will be. Also being certified as an EMT would help, as EMT trains you for the street, where EMD trains you to lend aid over the phone. For my training, I believe that being certified as an EMT is the worst thing when it comes to provided phone instruction. EMD is geared toward a trained person helping the untrained....from the methodology, to the language.

    If your place allows for an extensive training and mentoring/ride along program, then FF1 and the EMT would not be needed. Reality is that most places get a couple of weeks of "supervised" desk time and are then thrown to the wolves. If Fire Prevention is considered the "red headed step child" then dispatching is it's cousin.

    Read most of these posts.....the places with no problems have dispatchers that are volies somewhere. THEY UNDERSTAND what we do!

    Its hard in places that are not as busy to provide a good picture for dispatcher candidates of what we do. What is the likelyhood of these trainees actually seeing anything significant.

    Another story, "Car 8 to Fire Alarm, have the next Engine in lay in"
    "Fire Alarm has the message" "Fire Alarm calling Ladder 29, per Car 8 lay in on arrival" ... A hint, Ladder 29 is and was not a quint.

    The more your dispatcher understand about what you do and face every day, the better level of service you will get. Its that simple. How many Dispatchers are buffs? Some of the best ones are....

    By the way, your new Firefighters should be forced, beaten, and locked into your communications area for a while too. Before they develop the "I could do that job" attitude and proceed to criticize every decision made by your dispatch.

    Dave


  2. #22
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Originally posted by Dave1105
    Just OOI, what is Segment 1 2 and 3?? and as we are caring and sharing :P We still dispatch an engine even if the primary is unavail..

    Oh sorry about that....I forget that what is common language for me, is just jibberish to others......

    Segemnts are priorities in the New York City Fire Department-EMS. We have 9 segments...1-3 being the most serious,or "true emergencies" and 4-9 being the less serious...On Segments 7-9 the crews are not to use their lights or sirens and you have 10 minutes to go 10-84, (onscene). Segment 1 is Cardiac Arrest and Chokes, Seg 2 is Asthma Critical, Drown, Trauma, and Diff breather, Seg 3 is Cardiac, Asthma, CVA Critical etc, Seg 4 is Injury, Respir, andy condition over Seg 4 that involves age 5 and under, and 65 and over becomes a Seg 4...and MOS involves incidents...(Member of Service, Cops, Fireman, EMS Only)...the list goes on and on..there are appx 60 call types..and.segments 8 and 9 the less serious, can be placed on hold for at least 20 minutes and any other segment takes priority....meaning...I can assign a bus to an EDP (segment 8) and if an injury minor (segment 6) comes up....then any unit responding to a Segment 8 or 9 will be recommended for "the high" priority and I will take them off the Seg 9 and put them on the Seg 6.....this only happens when I runn out of units...which is all the time. I was the Queens Dispatcher from 1600-0000hrs...I have about 40-50 ambulances and I would run out very quickly....We do average 3000 EMS runs a day within the 5 boroughs of NYC. EMS does not dispatch Fire Operations Assests...each borough has their own communications office. BUT when a high priority pops up...say Seg 1-4...once I determine what the call is going to be the CAD system automaticly sends a message to Fire Operations with my information and what Engine Company is recommended....if they are available they go..if not then no Engine responds...NYC is a Big place and there is always something happening....an Engine Co can not go on every EMS run because they would not be available for fire duty. If a door needs to be taken then NYPD ESU will arrive and do so.


    Herss a link that shows our work in 2003...

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/pdf/sta...cwsum_cy03.pdf


    I know it sounds confussing...the system works great though...again..we do on average 1 million EMS runs a year. Their are about 6-13 call takers on in a 24 hour period and about 8-11 dispatchers including 1 Citywide dispatcher that handles ALL major incidents in the city. We average 10 MCIs per day and this dispatcher can handle about 2 at a time...or if its real harry we can add a second citywide dispatcher....the 9/11 WTC attack was handled very well in the center....Citywide was used for the Staff Officers in the field and the Mahattan South Board (who normally covers the WTC area) was used as the sole freq for the operation...everyone that wasn't there was switched up to Manhattan Central...(34th St to about Harlem 110th St.) And operations went smoothly.

    For our training....its the best one can get...it doesn't sound like alot of time but in 1 week on sitting you can easily handle 1000 calls as an ARD/CRO (Assignment Receiving Dispatcher/Call Receiving Operator)...the call takers. And a Radio Dispatcher handles about 2000 runs a week, depending on the borough. This is in a Tour, or an 8 hour day. We get alot of visitors that come and want to learn our system of operations, many US Citys have been here and many Europeans Countries as well...I think the City of Hamburgh Germany were the last ones to vist and they were very impressed. Our classroom istruction is 5 days a week for 8 hours a day...a 2-3.5 week course in given for the ARD/CRO....the dispatchers course is the same 5 days a week for 8 hours a day...120 hours total...much time is spent in the "hot seat" in the center actually taking calls, this time is seperate from the classroomm time...and it depends how skilled you are that determines when you qualify.

    I hope this better answers your question Dave1105....Feel free to ask away though..
    Last edited by VinnieB; 08-11-2004 at 10:56 AM.
    IACOJ Member

  3. #23
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Originally posted by hfd66truck


    Another story, "Car 8 to Fire Alarm, have the next Engine in lay in"
    "Fire Alarm has the message" "Fire Alarm calling Ladder 29, per Car 8 lay in on arrival" ... A hint, Ladder 29 is and was not a quint.


    That sounds like alot of "wordage" (<-- I know that's GW Bush speak ) That works for you I guess Right?...Were I work I would lose my voice )! This is how the above would sound were I work...Car 8(him), Car 8(me), Have next due engine lay in(him), 2d due lay in 10-4(me), Engine 29(me), lay in upon 84, Engine 29 10-4(him)

    Like you said in very busy areas..you have to adapt. I do see the error you point out and I have done the same.....I am only commenting on the verbal radio proceedures. I am just sharing not critizing.


    The more your dispatcher understand about what you do and face every day, the better level of service you will get. Its that simple. How many Dispatchers are buffs? Some of the best ones are....

    In EMS we are all uniformed members from the steets..meaning we worked in one of the 6 EMS divisons at one time or another..and we all go to an EMS Academy and learn how to be FDNY/EMTs..even if one thinks they are an EMT-b or p...they learn the FDNY way...I think it may be one of a few EMS academies in the US...i don't know..but I haven't heared anything about other cities...I hope someone could fill me in though. And yes The buffs seem to be the BEST ones at thier jobs...I would totally agree with that.


    By the way, your new Firefighters should be forced, beaten, and locked into your communications area for a while too. Before they develop the "I could do that job" attitude and proceed to criticize every decision made by your dispatch.


    AMEN Brother!!!!! I couldn't agree more...I thought the callers were a pain...UNTIL I became a Radio Dispatcher...the units in the field for the most part are a bunch of Square Rooters!!!!!
    Last edited by VinnieB; 08-11-2004 at 11:19 AM.
    IACOJ Member

  4. #24
    Early Adopter cozmosis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    1,925

    Default

    I've seen the topic of dispatch training pop up in several places here at home lately. Emergency communications in Arkansas is handicapped by problems that I'm sure are occuring elsewhere.

    First of all, there is no official state certification. New police officers must attend two months or so of law enforcement standards training. New career firefighters must complete two months at the state fire academy. New dispatchers -- who will be the lifeline for many of these officers & firefighters -- have absolutely NO state-mandated training requirement.

    Most fire departments in Arkansas are dispatched by a law enforcement agency. The majority of our towns and counties are small. Police & sheriff's departments seem to maintain as few dispatcher personnel as possible... So that when an opening is created, there is no time to train dispatchers correctly. They sit in with a more senior person for a few shifts and then they are on their own.

    The law enforcement aspect further hurts fire communcations. Police dispatchers are so used to sending a patrol car to check on complaints, that they continue to do it even when the complaint is fire-related. Just yesterday, our dispatcher sent patrol cars to investigate a smoke in the area call when my engine was in service on that side of the district.

  5. #25
    Forum Member Dave1105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    148

    Default

    Segemnts are priorities in the New York City Fire Department-EMS. We have 9 segments...1-3 being the most serious,or "true emergencies" and 4-9 being the less serious...
    Oh okay, following now... We use the same system (different terminology), we simply just call them priority's. Priority 0 being the most urgent. (including Cardiac Arrests, Respiratory Arrests, Hangings, Drownings etc.)

    What IT framework is your system based on? or is it custom software? Ours is based off Intergraph's iCAD....

    once I determine what the call is going to be the CAD system automaticly sends a message to Fire Operations with my information and what Engine Company is recommended....if they are available they go..if not then no Engine responds...NYC is a Big place and there is always something happening....an Engine Co can not go on every EMS run because they would not be available for fire duty. If a door needs to be taken then NYPD ESU will arrive and do so.
    Oh so your dispatch isn't automatically linked? All 4 services are linked together in my area Police, Fire, Ambulance + State Emergency Service (SES are an angency that do RAR in some areas are a general emergency response agenecy, floods, landslides, trees over roads etc).

    When an event type is deemed multi-agency, ie. requiring the attendance of more than one service.... as soon as the job is created by the call taker (from any service) it pops into the pending field for the appropriate dispatcher in each service. They then dispatch on it as required, also any information entered in by each agency can be seen by the other agencys. So if say Police take a call and fire then recieve a second call for the same event, notes being typed on the fire side of things are automatically and instantly seen on the police side.

  6. #26
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Huntsville, Tx, Walker
    Posts
    7

    Default

    I will have to answer no to this one as well. I am a Dispatcher for a Combined Public Safety Comm Cnter and have been for 7 years. We dispatch Police/Fire/EMS/Public Works.4 years ago a I took a First Responder class and joined a local FD. I believe to be an effective dispatcher you have to estimate what your units are going to want as far as providing info, obtaining info, relaying info locating scenes, I think a good understanding of what type of app is needed on scenes and the general understanding of why also I require a dispatcher to take a Incident Command Class.
    Anthony Tryon
    FF/EMT-B
    Crabbs Prairie VFD
    Huntsville, Tx

  7. #27
    Forum Member HeavyRescueTech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2,460

    Default

    Originally posted by hfd66truck
    Sending Dispatchers through FF I training can only help. The more they understand about the job, the better they will be. Also being certified as an EMT would help, as EMT trains you for the street, where EMD trains you to lend aid over the phone.
    using that line of thinking, they should also go to the police academy. and if they also dispatch public works (as some smaller towns do), then need additional training. Don't get me wrong, education is a good thing, and I'll never tell anyone not to take it, but we also need to be realisitc. do you really want to subject a guy, who's job it is to work a desk and radios, to have to put on structural firefighter gear, SCBA, and experience what it is like to be in a live burn? can you imagine telling a 5'2", 100 lb when soaking wet female dispatcher that she needs to learn how to or subdue a man with a weapon without drawing his/her side arm? and in order to keep the job, she needs to be able to do it effectively?
    First of all, there is no official state certification. New police officers must attend two months or so of law enforcement standards training. New career firefighters must complete two months at the state fire academy. New dispatchers -- who will be the lifeline for many of these officers & firefighters -- have absolutely NO state-mandated training requirement.
    New Jersey requires all dispatchers who answer 911 (and there are some towns that don't) to have Basic Telecommuncator and EMD, both 40 hour courses. however, one thing they stressed to us was that local protocol (IE, what your town told you to do) took precedence over what the taught you in the course.

    the reason for this is because no two dispatch centers are the same. I've seen some that are the size of office cubicles. small cubicals. these are staffed by only one person, who does call taking, dispatching, lookups, the whole thing. others that are staffed with 2-3 guys, CAD system, multiple truck radios, deal with the teletype, 3 different fire companies, a squad running 3 simultanios calls, etc. and there are county dispatch centers that have 15 guys doing call taking, 10 doing dispatching, fire and police are seperate, all computers interconnected, and they are doing it for 25 towns all at once. you can't take one person, drop them in a different enviorment and expect them to know everything, they need to be retaught how the dept does everything.

    and don't even get me started in the whole "nearest PSAP" thing.
    If my basic HazMat training has taught me nothing else, it's that if you see a glowing green monkey running away from something, follow that monkey!

    FF/EMT/DBP

  8. #28
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Originally posted by Dave1105

    What IT framework is your system based on? or is it custom software? Ours is based off Intergraph's iCAD....
    Its custom software based from iCAD.


    Oh so your dispatch isn't automatically linked? All 4 services are linked together in my area Police, Fire, Ambulance + State Emergency Service (SES are an angency that do RAR in some areas are a general emergency response agenecy, floods, landslides, trees over roads etc).
    Only NYPD and FDNY/EMS are linked. We have to use a phone to contact them 99% of the time and they call us with thier needs as well. The problem is that EMS and NYPD have new systems. The FD last major update was in the 70s and in many cases they still have systems left over from the 1800's. The FDNY is in the process of intergrating all the systems, BUT the civilian Fire Alarm Dispatchers union is happy about it. They think that EMS will take thier jobs.

    When an event type is deemed multi-agency, ie. requiring the attendance of more than one service.... as soon as the job is created by the call taker (from any service) it pops into the pending field for the appropriate dispatcher in each service. They then dispatch on it as required, also any information entered in by each agency can be seen by the other agencys. So if say Police take a call and fire then recieve a second call for the same event, notes being typed on the fire side of things are automatically and instantly seen on the police side.
    Its different here. NYPD receives all the 911 calls first. Then they decide if it needs to be routed to fire or ems. Then APD stays on the line and can only disengage if we say so. As far as additional calls go for the same incident...we do the same...add supplements. All this can be accessed via the onboard computers (MDT/KDT) in the Fire Apparatus, RMPs and Ambulances.
    IACOJ Member

  9. #29
    Forum Member Dave1105's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    148

    Default

    MDT's are something we are still yet to have, in any service out here..... Kinda sad really when you think that Victoria Police were one of the first to have radio-dispatched cars in the world.... and MDT's have been around for donkey's years. Our systems are all setup ready to go... but none of the services have implemented the infastructure. We are rolling out a new digital, encrypted, radio network sometime in the near future.... apparently they are looking at doing MDT's at the same time, however we've been hearing this since '91!

    We do however have GPS unit tracking on our ambulances now, that's kinda funky... actually seeing where your units are and watching them respond to the incident on your map screen. Fire sitll doesn't have it, howevever, as with the MDTS "apparently" it's not far off. Police are a different kettle of fish..... they just don't want it, and their union is fighting hard against it.... No more taking the Division Van home to watch the football game during shift.....

    Its different here. NYPD receives all the 911 calls first. Then they decide if it needs to be routed to fire or ems. Then APD stays on the line and can only disengage if we say so. As far as additional calls go for the same incident...we do the same...add supplements.
    Telstra (Major Telecoms company in Australia) answers all the priliminary calls out here... asks your state and whether you require Fire, Police or Ambulance and then they are put directly through to the appropriate centre (Along with any CLI details available).

    Just out of interest, is your phone system at all linked up with your computers? By this I mean, does your terminal know when you are recieving a call and manually put you into "Create" mode (Or similar?) and automatically give you CLI details? Because ours doesn't.... CLI pop in on everyone's CLI window as calls are recieved and the very first thing the telstra operator does as you answer is read out an 8-digit number that is your cli reference and you have to pick it out of the box. As you can understand, if we get busy and you have CLI's popping in every few seconds, it can become really hard to pick the right one, especially if you have someone screaming in the background as the telstra operator reads out the number. Luckily, the numbers are random and not in any order so as long as you can get the first 2 or 3 you can usually pick it.

  10. #30
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    1,744

    Default

    Originally posted by DrParasite

    using that line of thinking, they should also go to the police academy. and if they also dispatch public works (as some smaller towns do), then need additional training. Don't get me wrong, education is a good thing, and I'll never tell anyone not to take it, but we also need to be realisitc. do you really want to subject a guy, who's job it is to work a desk and radios, to have to put on structural firefighter gear, SCBA, and experience what it is like to be in a live burn? can you imagine telling a 5'2", 100 lb when soaking wet female dispatcher that she needs to learn how to or subdue a man with a weapon without drawing his/her side arm? and in order to keep the job, she needs to be able to do it effectively?
    If it makes them better at what they do, then yes they should. Our dispatchers only dispatch fire and ems. Some have FF 1 & 2, others don't. A dispatcher having a clue of what it is like to be in a mask, or stretch a line, or draw a gun.....it can only give them a better appreciation for what is going on on the other side of the radio. I didn't say it should be mandatory, or "required", but too many times I have seen problems due to the dispatcher not understanding what is required from the units in the field. Face it, dispatching is still a punishment in some areas (worse than Fire Prevention), until it is given its due, and dispatchers are treated as professionals.....there will always be problems. My point was simply that if a dispatcher knows what it like to crawl down a hallway, or roll around with a drunk, or lift a 300 fatty on the second floor...they will be better able to anticipate what resources are needed and act accordingly. Like I said before, read the post on this thread alone, most everyone that says they are lucky or have no problems...has dispatchers that do the job in their off time.


    Dave

  11. #31
    Forum Member VinnieB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    On the couch in my skivvies
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    Originally posted by Dave1105
    Just out of interest, is your phone system at all linked up with your computers? By this I mean, does your terminal know when you are recieving a call and manually put you into "Create" mode (Or similar?) and automatically give you CLI details? Because ours doesn't.... CLI pop in on everyone's CLI window as calls are recieved and the very first thing the telstra operator does as you answer is read out an 8-digit number that is your cli reference and you have to pick it out of the box. As you can understand, if we get busy and you have CLI's popping in every few seconds, it can become really hard to pick the right one, especially if you have someone screaming in the background as the telstra operator reads out the number. Luckily, the numbers are random and not in any order so as long as you can get the first 2 or 3 you can usually pick it.
    No our phones aren't linked to the computers. We have to hit the f12 key to bring up a complainent mask. What is linked are our computers and the PDs computers. It takes about 1-10 seconds for all the critical info such as borough (very critcal because each is like its own city and many address can be found in Manhattan, Queens, and Brooklyn..i.e. there are 4 streets names Dekalb in NYC, and they do not cross each other) address, phone #, etc to come over...all I do is hit f5 and its dropped into my complainent mask or I can manually plug in the data. Our phones are linked to the PD too. When PD routes a job to us a tone goes off in our head set..(a boing sound)it is routed to whoever is availible.

    We are currently working on the GPS bit as well....NYC moves real slow...instead they went with personal radiation monitors.

    They other thing we have is the ability to send text messages to any ambulance w/ an MDT/KDT and the NYPD dispatcher that covers our "atoms", which are geographical areas on a map that are specific to a Precient...i.e. the 07A Atom is in the 7th preicent (07) and the A or "Adam" is the area closest to the precient house....and 07H would be the farthest....confussing...Sure IS!
    IACOJ Member

  12. #32
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    5,111

    Default

    I am a dispatcher for our county wide dispatch center.

    I totally agree with most of you is that a dispatcher should have at least a basic uderstanding of the job of a firefighter. I don't think they have to go through FFI but at least rides and basic training of fire science, operations, incident command, basic fire attack, etc. I have been a part-time firefighter for 13 years, dispatcher for 6 years. If I didn't have my fire background, I don't think I could a good job.

    Same goes for law enforcement too. A dispatcher needs to understand the basic job of a police officer and have basic training and ride time to understand why a cop calls for certain things at certain times.

    Yes Medical Priority has flip cards for EMS/EMD as well as a set of cards for Fire. Here, we have a "Basic Dispatcher" class for 40 hours. Part of this time is the EMS/EMD card training. Really it is training on what questions you need to ask for different situations, stress management and multi-tasking.

    Someone said it best, "you will get better service out of someone who knows the job and understands what is going on at the other end of the radio." VERY TRUE!!!!

    Keep your head down and your powder dry.
    ________________________
    Lt.Jason Knecht
    Altoona Fire Rescue
    Altoona, WI

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts